sports glasses

**smallworld** · 03-31-2016, 12:34 PM

I have a six year old boy patient who has a high rx : +6.00+2.00x097 .
He is very rough on his glasses, so his parents purchase rec specs for him every year to use for rough play. This year he needed to go into a Slam XL 55 eye . His PD is 57.5 and he has a large head.

My lab called yesterday and said they can't make the lenses because his prescription requires an 8 base, and the Liberty frame requires a 6 base. So I asked them to try a different material type. I was told by their customer service "it's illegal to use anything other than polycarbonate in sports glasses due to OSHA". I than called Liberty, who said they can make his lenses in polycarbonate no problem. I than called my lab back and asked why they can't make the lenses if Liberty can. I also asked about using a different material again, as I have a pediatric specialist who works here, and some of my kids have +10.00 and up prescriptions. I was told OSHA requires polycarbonate in sports glasses and that the safety lab "drop balls" the lenses. I than laughed out loud and said "what?". My lab person said yes, they drop ball the polycarbonate sports lenses. I than called Liberty back and asked if they drop ball the sports lenses and their rep laughed and said no.

Today I looked up the ansi standards for specific sports safety requirements and it lists polycarbonate as a "should" vs a "must".

I know this seems pointless, but I prefer working with my lab vs Liberty lab. I would like if they could do the safety glasses, yet they can't for this patient, not in polycarbonate. I don't understand why Trivex wouldn't be an option? Or even high index 1.67.

Ok, I'm ready to be told why I'm wrong.

**Dustin.B** · 03-31-2016, 01:05 PM

Trivex wouldn't be any better, it has a lower index than Poly does. And I don't know who wrote it but Liberty sport has always been limited from +6 to -2. and the ratings they use are ASTM F803 so that may have some part in it as well.

**smallworld** · 03-31-2016, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Dustin.B

Trivex wouldn't be any better, it has a lower index than Poly does. And I don't know who wrote it but Liberty sport has always been limited from +6 to -2. and the ratings they use are ASTM F803 so that may have some part in it as well.

Nope, Liberty said they can go up to +/- 13.00. And I'm referring to ASTM F803 when I said poly is a "should" vs a "must".

**Dustin.B** · 03-31-2016, 01:47 PM

I understand, was just confused when you said "Ansi" earlier. I will have to email them myself I suppose because I have a number of high myopic prescription friends who'd love these frames.

**smallworld** · 03-31-2016, 01:57 PM

The liberty rep said they have special edgers and surfacing equipment to do the sports glasses . I'm just curious why my lab can't.

**jpways** · 03-31-2016, 02:12 PM

I have to wonder if Liberty has special thickness blanks that aren't available on the general market

**Plausible** · 03-31-2016, 02:41 PM

While I do not have one in front of me, I am sure I have seen a literature card in Liberty Sport Frame boxes specifying Polycarb lenses for the frame. The next few I see I will take a look and see if I can come up with one.

**CME4SPECS** · 03-31-2016, 02:43 PM

It's not that your lab can't, it's more like they won't. Maybe they are concerned about liability. Have Liberty do it!

**smallworld** · 03-31-2016, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by CME4SPECS

It's not that your lab can't, it's more like they won't. Maybe they are concerned about liability. Have Liberty do it!

I am having Liberty do it. There are multiple reasons I would like to use my regular lab. One is the 6 month prescription change warranty that my lab offers. Liberty charges 50% for remakes. Most of my pediatric specialist patients are children who are patching, and their prescriptions can change frequently. Also many of my high plus patients have Vision Care Plans, which my lab is a provider for, yet Liberty is not. These are a couple of the reasons I posted the thread so that I could get more information. If my lab could do it I would 100% prefer to use them.

**CME4SPECS** · 03-31-2016, 03:11 PM

I think most of would rather use "our" lab, sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.

**smallworld** · 03-31-2016, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by CME4SPECS

I think most of would rather use "our" lab, sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.

I was looking more for a fact based response explaining answers to my questions. If anyone has information to help me I would appreciate it.

**Dustin.B** · 03-31-2016, 08:24 PM

Hey Smallworld, when you get them in may we see them? I must say I'm curious.

**Jubilee** · 03-31-2016, 09:39 PM

Wondering if their set up isn't conducive to the range of shelf beveling necessary to do it on a different base curve. Some labs just want to be able to use their robotic edgers and not give a second thought to bevel placement, control, etc..

**smallworld** · 04-01-2016, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Dustin.B

Hey Smallworld, when you get them in may we see them? I must say I'm curious.

Absolutely!!

**Plausible** · 04-01-2016, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Plausible

While I do not have one in front of me, I am sure I have seen a literature card in Liberty Sport Frame boxes specifying Polycarb lenses for the frame. The next few I see I will take a look and see if I can come up with one.

Found a job with the instructional quad fold info paper labeled SLAM XL (no. L2010/01) Listed below Important Instructions: 1.This frame should not be sold, dispensed, or worn without polycarbonate lenses. Polycarbonate lenses are the only lens that offer impact resistance for sports. refer to ASTM F803 Standards for additional information. This quad fold also gives the Pledge of Quality, Frame Benefits, Warning, and Frame Replacement Policy.

**smallworld** · 04-01-2016, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Plausible

Found a job with the instructional quad fold info paper labeled SLAM XL (no. L2010/01) Listed below Important Instructions: 1.This frame should not be sold, dispensed, or worn without polycarbonate lenses. Polycarbonate lenses are the only lens that offer impact resistance for sports. refer to ASTM F803 Standards for additional information. This quad fold also gives the Pledge of Quality, Frame Benefits, Warning, and Frame Replacement Policy.

So it's a recommendation to use polycarbonate.

**cowboytelemark** · 04-01-2016, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Plausible

Polycarbonate lenses are the only lens that offer impact resistance for sports. refer to ASTM F803 Standards for additional information.

Um, NO. Sports glasses aren't ANSI safety glasses anyway, so the OP's lab must just be clueless?

**Plausible** · 04-01-2016, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by cowboytelemark

Um, NO. Sports glasses aren't ANSI safety glasses anyway, so the OP's lab must just be clueless?

Um......... just relaying what the instructions that come with the frame say. I would hate to assume or call anyone clueless. There must be some reason Liberty goes to the effort to create such detailed instructions and include it with their sport frames. Yes?

**smallworld** · 04-02-2016, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Plausible

Um......... just relaying what the instructions that come with the frame say. I would hate to assume or call anyone clueless. There must be some reason Liberty goes to the effort to create such detailed instructions and include it with their sport frames. Yes?

I understand the lab and the Liberty company may have their own policies regarding using polycarbonate in sports glasses, but then they should say "we choose not to" vs saying "it's illegal by OSHA standards".

I did find an article describing ASTM F803 testing. I didn't think the drop ball test would be very useful with polycarbonate safety lenses. It makes sense they have higher impact testing.

“The ANSI Z80.3 standard requires only the basic-level FDA drop ball test (5/8 in. steel ball at 50 in.),” Pfriem said. “This imparts an impact of 0.2 joules on the eyewear lens. The ASTM F 803 standard utilizes either a tennis ball, racquetball, baseball, etc., per the designated sport. All in all, the minimum impact imparted in testing is on the order of 19 joules (squash ball).

I just watched a couple of You tube videos showing sports glasses testing with a baseball traveling 70MPH(pro gear) and a steel spike drop test(Oakley). I can see why polycarbonate is the lens of choice.

**IIxIPariahIxII** · 04-02-2016, 11:22 AM

Depending on the lab, your lab may not be able to do the step bevel (aka shelf) required for a high RX in a rec spec. Some rec specs require one even regardless of the RX due to the mounting. Also, some lab supervisors hate doing them (Very easy to mess up and have to start over) so they may not want to even try due to potential for breakage. Our lab doesn't have the equipment to do it, and sends them to Liberty because of that. Polycarbonate would be the choice due to the high impact resistance that the lens offers. I usually try and get them into an Oakley if possible, because their poly lenses are ballistic grade and can endure more stress and impact. But due to your office's pediatric setting, most of your RXs I believe will put them outside Oakley ranges. Hope this helps :)

**Robert Martellaro** · 04-04-2016, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by smallworld

I have a six year old boy patient who has a high rx : +6.00+2.00x097. He is very rough on his glasses, so his parents purchase rec specs for him every year to use for rough play. <snip> Today I looked up the ansi standards for specific sports safety requirements and it lists polycarbonate as a "should" vs a "must".

Poly or Trivex for all eyeglass lenses worn by kids under age 18, for adult sports/safety eyeglasses, and for adults with compromised vision in one eye.