Unbelievable Johns.
Unbelievable Johns.
Very Simple.....Put a Tip Jar on every dispensing table
90% of everything is crap...except for crap, because crap is 100% crap
SMH. I just don't see how to get ahead. Does it make a difference to bill the exam and eyewear purchase together or separate?
Has anyone else seen an example of this ??Originally Posted by Johns
Its on their webpage:
http://www.americasbest.com/save-mon...ion-insurance/
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity
I just called one of their locations and asked. They "take it," but are out of network. Any one have more information on this?
Just called in to my local Americasbest and she stated that they do accept VSP as a "preferred out-of network provider". I asked what that means and she said "well you can call your insurance to ask them how that works". Then I questioned whether it meant that I could use my benefits she said "basically if your insurance gives you $100 dollars towards glasses it would be worth $80 here." So, VSP drops the patients benefits if they go out of network. I am not sure if they are told this up front or not. Either way, it looks like AmericasBest has found a kind of loophole to being full fledged VSP providers. She did admit though that they would still submit the claim themselves.
FYI: on a side not I have tried that in the past for a patient that had -17.00 OU and I wanted to use a double aspheric freeform SV lens but isnt an option from a VSP lab cause its a SEIKO lens. The insurance ended up barely paying anything of her cost. Contrary to a previous year time where they compensated the patient for their out of pocket expense through the non-IDC lab. I ended up having to explain to a VSP rep the details behind this specific patients case. She was completely on our side and was able to knock it down a bit more but no where near what she would have been covered.
Did a quick search and lookielookie what I found:
http://www.craigsteinberglaw.com/ind...on-vsp-billing
Did a quick search and lookie
http://www.craigsteinberglaw.com/ind...on-vsp-billing
Unlike the process mentioned in the above link, the prospective employee stated how easy it was to verify the VSP coverage, not only online, but through America's Best portal. She said they accept and verify Eyemed the same way.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
VSP does this for Costco, too.
I'm a tellin' ya, they want to expand their network like Luxottica, but they don't have any one entity to purchase.
so then?? are we all to opt out and follow suit? Do we have another option?? Aside from providing free services?
There becomes a point at which you are providing services for such low reimbursement that you time is more valuable NOT seeing such encounters.
You have to decide where that point is.
How much profit/patient/time, on average, are you willing to take?
$100/hr? $50?
The problem is that it's difficult to make a formula for this calculation.
It's straightforward enough to take 100 vision plan patients and figure out what you've made on the group, on average. That's "gross".
But what if they utilize more frequently? Say they come in and you make $100 every year, whereas a private pay you make $200 every three? That needs factored in.
How about how many patients each VCP patient sends to your office? How about who they refer and who they refer?
But figuring net is where the devil lies. How much time per encounter so you can allocate how much payroll went into 1. scheduling, 2. verifying coverage, 3. submitting claims/reconciling claims, etc.?
Then you have to figure how valuable your time could be, invested in other ventures if you didn't take the VCP.
Bottom line is that no one knows the data on that stuff, so it becomes a "gut instinct" kind of thing. It would be cool and not at all impossible for a software program to do this.
now to find this software or someone to make it.
we do about 70% vsp. 15% eye med and 15% cash
52% sv
46% pg ( all N & O catagory lenses )
rest is other.
80% AR
90% poly
small small office, 2 dr. 3 opticians, 350 jobs a month, we do about 1.8m a year.
You have to have to sell the upper progressives and at least poly or higher to start getting paid right. get the custom measurements too. $8 a job adds up. Check your pricing on frames, pm me if you want on that.
Be a big palyer within a manufacture of frames, dont have too many brands spread across a lot of manuf's. Get your deeper discounts, free shipping etc...
Very similar practice to mine a year ago. Now my poly use is way down with Trivex and cr39 about even and about 15% hi index taking the rest. I agree with the rest although your gross is a bit higher than mine it all works pretty well. Do you have any VSP owned installations nearby?
The only way to beat them is to go low-price, efficient and fast for all your cash patients. Make vision plans obsolete by being quick and easy for them as well as pushing the cost as low as you can to grow. Don't sacrifice competency and core quality though. Shop hard for the product you're buying just like your(cash) customers shop you hard on price. We all know that a lose/lose 'insurance' patient takes twice as much time(money) to service and bill as a low price cash patient. Same money, same service, less BS. That's a win for us and the patient IMHO.
Last edited by VisionAiry; 04-12-2016 at 11:07 PM.
Fourteen of my family members (including: aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, grandparents...and a great uncle) are, or have been in optical and...that's just crazytown at Christmas
How to get ahead with VSP?
I'm not understanding the problem, but I come from a high VSP area.
Making money with VSP is not hard, if you are using and understanding premium product. I would LOVE if someone wants to PM me the numbers on a claim and we compare notes to see how I'm doing great and you are struggling.
Lets figure this out, because VSP has been great for my patients and I'm doing just fine.
+1. Plus, VSP empowers my patients to get premium digital progressives and high-end A/R coatings that would otherwise paralyze them with sticker shock.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
Kind of interesting that your poly use is way down. Why is that? My practice and many others on this forum are heavily into poly? I really don't use cr39 at all if I can avoid it. Personally, despite the info on Abbe values I've never really seen an optical downside to Poly and it includes all the other advantages of lower weight, UV resistance, thinner, impact resistant etc. These advantages help to make it an easy sell.
Additional point: Seems like selling Unity progressives is another way to eke out a small profit from VSP. We've seen no downside to these PAL's in terms of adaptability and patient feedback. If you're being paid an extra $6-12 to dispense the lens and coatings it seems logical. We are not a "premium" vsp provider because after doing the math we realized we can not make a reasonable profit on Marchon and Altair; however, even as a regular vsp provider there is profit in Unity and perhaps in the extra fitting charges for the N lines. Any objections?
P.S: Private rant: I wish members of this forum would limit the hate and flame postings on VSP. Vision plans (and HMO's in general) are today's reality and most of us have to deal with them. There is a lot of advantage to be gained in learning how to deal with this reality and no advantage gained in cursing them. Personally my business is in an area with 80% HMO penetration (where I'm excluded from most of the panels). The fact that the vision plans do not exclude me from their panels is a plus for me since it drives business my way. Too bad it isn't as profitable as it could be...it is what it is.
I just don't see a reason to "up-sell" to poly if there is no big advantage to the patient, even if it does make me a bit more money. And if there are big disadvantages for a given patient, I consider it to be unethical.
Of course a -2.00 kid needs some eye protection and poly is fine for that kid, although trivex is usually better optically. For a +3.00 the abbe really sucks in poly and cr39 is way, way better optically, and is even better than trivex. And I've never seen a +3.00 cr-39 break, even in dress thicknesses.
As I said, I've moved heavily from poly to trivex, but still have to reign in the staff on overselling poly without a good reason. I'm also a bit spooked by the carcinogen reports on poly. I also got burned a few times with poly starring around drill points. And prism? forget poly. they look like a high school physics demo of the visible spectrum...
How goofy is that statement?
VSP forces you to give a discount. You don't need them for that.
Honestly, vision 'insurance' companies don't actually DO anything, they are purely marketing middlemen. Unlike auto and health insurance which spread out risk. Before it existed no one was wondering why it didn't exist. It was a tool for employers to add another line item on their employee benefit package. It may help some and hinder other various groups but the world isn't the slightest better off with them. There is no benefit to the consumer or the provider.
Fourteen of my family members (including: aunts, uncles, cousins, parents, grandparents...and a great uncle) are, or have been in optical and...that's just crazytown at Christmas
Do you not think impact resistance is important for everyone? Poly is the least expensive option to give a pt a thin lense. uv protection and safety...sure trivex is slightly better abbe...so many people on here knock poly but it is still a very viable option. Is it the best option for optics...not really but it does a good job. If I'm the least bit concerned about optics I will use psr.. trivex would be the 2nd choice. People will say why not give every pt the best optical quality...I educate the pt then allow them to decide based on there budget and needs.jmho.
Well, considering the fact that I have never been in a position to determine my office's prices or which insurance we take, I have to focus on the fact that I can provide my cost-conscious patients much better products through VSP than EyeMed or Davis. I have to work within the system.
I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.
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