Tablet Optical Measuring?

**Speed** · 02-24-2016, 06:59 PM

Anyone using tablets for optical fitting measurements? What are the best? Any reasonably priced?

**kittyeyes** · 02-25-2016, 11:53 AM

I use iCapture from Nikon. It's an ipad4 based system. I do use and recommend the Nikon progressive line (brand recognition alone usually sells itself)-but you can use the measurements for any free form design. It's quite a wow factor for patients. Not sure the price as I got coupons from Nikon for progressive lens orders which paid for the iCapture.

**Speed** · 02-25-2016, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by kittyeyes

I use iCapture from Nikon. It's an ipad4 based system. I do use and recommend the Nikon progressive line (brand recognition alone usually sells itself)-but you can use the measurements for any free form design. It's quite a wow factor for patients. Not sure the price as I got coupons from Nikon for progressive lens orders which paid for the iCapture.

Thanks but I do not wish to promote someone elses brand. Too often they take them back.

**Dustin.B** · 02-26-2016, 02:16 PM

I have seen good reviews for the Optikam system but have yet to acquire it myself.

**Speed** · 02-26-2016, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dustin.B

I have seen good reviews for the Optikam system but have yet to acquire it myself.

I am in conversation with them. They are buddies with Hoya , but just buddies. Looks like all anyone would want from this type of system. I'd still like to see more of them that arent lab or lens obligatory.

**Slim** · 03-10-2016, 06:54 PM

we use SpecTech from Walman. Its ipad based. had it for a year now. Id say it was worth the 2k buy in. Its def paid for itself in a month or 2.

**Speed** · 03-11-2016, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Slim

we use SpecTech from Walman. Its ipad based. had it for a year now. Id say it was worth the 2k buy in. Its def paid for itself in a month or 2.

Is that tied to ordering from or promoting walman?

**Uilleann** · 03-11-2016, 12:42 PM

We tried 4 different systems over the past 3 years. None and I mean NONE were up to scratch. (sadly, I can't recall the names of any off the cuff so I know this ends up being highly subjective).

But I wouldn't waste a dime on any of them till they can consistently determine so much as a PD, let alone a seg, and do so quickly. It would be a bonus if they could beat me at GO! as well. ;)

**Slim** · 03-11-2016, 01:21 PM

it is not tied to anyone.

**Visionconsultofny** · 03-22-2016, 07:43 AM

There is a new one in beta now called automeyes. Its web based and includes access to a full frame database. The best part I saw is that its free to get started with and has a monthly subscription with different levels depending on what you want. they are working out the kinks still but I have used and seen the proof of concept and its accuracy was humbling for me, and Ive been doing this for 20 years. You can ask Matt if you want to see it in person, his email is sales@automeyes.com and tell him John from Vision Consultants sent you.

**Barry Santini** · 03-22-2016, 08:03 AM

This whole "accuracy" thing raises a question:

Just how does any individual evaluate the accuracy of the values rendered by these devices? Are you comparing it to "your" measurements?

How do you know your measurements are "accurate"?

B

**Visionconsultofny** · 03-22-2016, 08:13 AM

I tested it, and had some employees test it (All NYS opticians with 10+ years of experience). Basically we took measurements on the patient, then we used the app we were all within a mm or so of each other. The inventor filed a patent on this and because of that he is comfortable to discuss how the measurements are taken. I'm not saying it gets rid of the need for experts but just across the border in a non license state like PA I doubt it can be much worse.

**Barry Santini** · 03-22-2016, 11:34 AM

So...a 1mm variance represents accuracy?

Help me here.

B

**Visionconsultofny** · 03-22-2016, 12:56 PM

I think if you lined up 10 opticians and had all 10 take segs, the variation would be more than 1mm. In my instance I would measure a 17 seg, it would come out 16.86mm or 17.24mm well within the 1mm resolution of a pd stick. The PDS were within that same margin from a pupilometer. Consider that even the same person taking the same measurement will see variation, and even those who mark the lenses, can also see minor changes. I would say sub 1mm accuracy is pretty good.

**Barry Santini** · 03-22-2016, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Visionconsultofny

I think if you lined up 10 opticians and had all 10 take segs, the variation would be more than 1mm. In my instance I would measure a 17 seg, it would come out 16.86mm or 17.24mm well within the 1mm resolution of a pd stick. The PDS were within that same margin from a pupilometer. Consider that even the same person taking the same measurement will see variation, and even those who mark the lenses, can also see minor changes. I would say sub 1mm accuracy is pretty good.

I would agree. But although pupil heights can be ascertained well with tablets, the actual seg or progressive height will still vary with tailoring to habit, choice and posture. With PDs, objective measurements, such as tablets take, are fine (usable) to slightly less than 1mm prescion for SV and segmented lenses. But for true intermediate utility and comfort in progressives, only a proper raw, subjective measurement, adjusted for monocular NC convergence/fixation distance and RX prism can be considered a "gold" standard. And no current tablet technology that I am aware of can do that.

B

**Visionconsultofny** · 03-22-2016, 05:52 PM

I agree with you, but tools like this are useful in states and areas where being an optician is a self defined notion. For instance today I had a client call with a seg of 37, and a B of 31...that dispenser needs an app

**LENNY** · 03-22-2016, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Visionconsultofny

I agree with you, but tools like this are useful in states and areas where being an optician is a self defined notion. For instance today I had a client call with a seg of 37, and a B of 31...that dispenser needs an app

Or maybe this measurement was from the app....:)

**Speed** · 03-22-2016, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Barry Santini

So...a 1mm variance represents accuracy?

Help me here.

B

I have found free I-phone type apps that can provide accurate measurements of I-phone type photographs. As accurate as the MM ruler in the photograph. Not really that high tech. On line opticals will soon be providing cut outs in magazine adds that give relative measurements. As good as most opticians.

**mervinek** · 03-23-2016, 09:10 AM

Ok... so odd question. I don't have an app or any special systems so I really don't know. Is it still easy to get incorrect measurements with these systems and apps if you have an inexperienced new optician. For example head tilt ect. I suspect that you can have wrong measurements with or without these systems if you have a bad optician.

**Opticianjw** · 04-03-2016, 12:23 PM

I use the optikam app and would highly recommend getting it. I have found the Optikam app to be extremely accurate and takes no longer to use then manually measuring.

**Scooby Snacks** · 04-03-2016, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Uilleann

We tried 4 different systems over the past 3 years. None and I mean NONE were up to scratch. (sadly, I can't recall the names of any off the cuff so I know this ends up being highly subjective).

But I wouldn't waste a dime on any of them till they can consistently determine so much as a PD, let alone a seg, and do so quickly. It would be a bonus if they could beat me at GO! as well. ;)

This surprises me. Not. In our tech addicted world, there will always be tasks humans can do better than computers. Sometimes adding a computer to a task makes it harder, not easier.

**Lelarep** · 04-06-2016, 11:07 PM

The main problem in machine learning is figuring out how to teach a machine to do something, once you know how to teach the computer, it will almost always outperform humans at any task that isn't emotional in nature.