Who is part of their regional Opticians organization?

[optical24/7]

Warren, you've used, many times, Optometry as an example of educate then legislate. Let me tell you a story out of my family that will maybe shed some light on why those Opticians went further to educate themselves prior to seeking state licensure;

My Great Uncle was an Optician and jeweler ( common at the turn of the century) in southern Illinois. The area was very rural, no eye doctors around, but there was a need for the area. He went to a "refractometry school" to learn to perform the service. There were financial incentives to do so. That's why he, and other Opticians pursued said education: need coupled with financial reward upon investing in the time and money doing so.


Fast forward to today. There are no incentives for Opticians to pursue a formal education, especially in non-licensed states. There is no proverbial "carrot at the end of the stick".

I've asked this many times before from the "educate then legislate" crowd and have yet to hear a plausible, practical and realist way that could ever happen with today's Optician. I'd love to hear it, either from you, or others that feel the same way. On the other hand, I can give you a plausible, practical and realist way to further Opticianry, but it must require a mandatory element. There is no other way, and it's more realistic to get mandatory licensure, as difficult as it is (and yes, I know personally how difficult) than to get Opticians to freely and willingly go get a formal education. Other than mandatory licensure, the only other way would be if employers mandated it. We both know what chance that has...About as much as Opticians doing it all on their own with no incentive.


So once again, I ask you, specifically, how are we going to get Opticians into a classroom voluntarily?

[wmcdonald]

We will not, as I stated in my post, George. That will not happen, so we remain in this morass of mediocrity. It is unfortunate. Enjoyed the ongoing dialogue

[Java99]

In response to the original topic, there is not an optician's org near me, so I am in the process of building one in North Texas.

Yes, I am in Texas. Yes, there is an org in Houston, COAT. They are great for that part of the state. Those of us who are 6 or 8 or 10 hours away from Houston have been getting CE in Las Vegas, as it's less travel time to get there than Houston for us, which is why I am working to build an org for the rest of the state. Yes, COAT knows, we are in contact.

[rbaker]

Warren, you've used, many times, Optometry as an example of educate then legislate. Let me tell you a story out of my family that will maybe shed some light on why those Opticians went further to educate themselves prior to seeking state licensure;

My Great Uncle was an Optician and jeweler ( common at the turn of the century) in southern Illinois. The area was very rural, no eye doctors around, but there was a need for the area. He went to a "refractometry school" to learn to perform the service. There were financial incentives to do so. That's why he, and other Opticians pursued said education: need coupled with financial reward upon investing in the time and money doing so.


Fast forward to today. There are no incentives for Opticians to pursue a formal education, especially in non-licensed states. There is no proverbial "carrot at the end of the stick".

I've asked this many times before from the "educate then legislate" crowd and have yet to hear a plausible, practical and realist way that could ever happen with today's Optician. I'd love to hear it, either from you, or others that feel the same way. On the other hand, I can give you a plausible, practical and realist way to further Opticianry, but it must require a mandatory element. There is no other way, and it's more realistic to get mandatory licensure, as difficult as it is (and yes, I know personally how difficult) than to get Opticians to freely and willingly go get a formal education. Other than mandatory licensure, the only other way would be if employers mandated it. We both know what chance that has...About as much as Opticians doing it all on their own with no incentive.


So once again, I ask you, specifically, how are we going to get Opticians into a classroom voluntarily?

Right on. I am not familiar with what it costs to go to one of these Junior College optician programs but I bet that the expense doesn't pencil out for the student.

Compare the average wages of an optician with that of a CDL which costs much less and can be accomplished in a few weeks. How about spending your time getting a plumbing or electricians license.

I realize that there are some individuals making a good living in eye care but they are rewarded for their skills and talents and not credentials.

[optical24/7]

Warren, we share the same dream, we just differ on what path to take to get there. What ever the outcome of Opticianry I want you to know that there are very few in this field that I respect as much, and none more than you. Thank you for all you've done to try and elevate this field. Wherever we're at as a profession, we are better because of you. Take care my friend and enjoy your weekend...

[ex-optician]

The problem is not the OD's. It goes far beyond that and as long as we seek to place the blame for the demise of the craft on others we will perpetually dwell in the darkness.

While it is a laudable pursuit, the quest for knowledge, I believe that what you are trying to do is to polish a turd by pushing "formal" education on a few hundred students a year in a job market of thousands. Joe Optometrist or the Medical Eye Care Physician and especially Acme Global Eyewear doesn't care a whit for the "credentials" of what today amounts to a clerk. They will however be interested in talent and smarts and you usually don't find those traits coming out of the Rumpelstiltskin Junior College at a non-livable wage. If a young person is willing to spend the money and the time there are a lot of more lucrative endeavors that they may pursue.

You see, this is the change that has evolved in the craft. Yes, anyone with a pulse can call themselves an "optician" and it didn't used to be that way. Unless an individual has the ability to stand on his own two feet and master the craft through formal education or apprenticeship and than practice the craft on his own terms free of the impediments of third parties be they employers, insurance companies or regulators you will dwell among the mouth breathers with pulses.

By and large it just ain't worth it today.

Very blunt and to the point. I admire such sarcastic honesty. The point of no return has left the station along time ago. Education is an investment in yourself. I hope any young person who is considering being an optician as a career to think twice.

[Paul Smith LDO]

Not unless you are practicing in a licensed state. In Washington, for instance it would be fortuitous to do so.

I understand that most states have none or have a minimal ABO requirement, but that should not exclude one from pursuing knowledge. Having a solid background in fundamental/theoretical optics will only serve as an aid to practical experiences, creating a better optician.

Why are we even engaging in these trivial discussions.

[wmcdonald]

Right on. I am not familiar with what it costs to go to one of these Junior College optician programs but I bet that the expense doesn't pencil out for the student.

Compare the average wages of an optician with that of a CDL which costs much less and can be accomplished in a few weeks. How about spending your time getting a plumbing or electricians license.

I realize that there are some individuals making a good living in eye care but they are rewarded for their skills and talents and not credentials.

The average Optician makes more than a teacher in many states, and that requires a minimum of a bachelors degree. Since you clearly have no idea what you are talking about regarding the cost of typical community college, it is minimal, and the cost-benefit is there. Your thinking is archaic, and mirrors the tradesman mentality we need to get away from. Opticians need to do more, and that will require more of us.

[Craig]

The average Optician makes more than a teacher in many states, and that requires a minimum of a bachelors degree. Since you clearly have no idea what you are talking about regarding the cost of typical community college, it is minimal, and the cost-benefit is there. Your thinking is archaic, and mirrors the tradesman mentality we need to get away from. Opticians need to do more, and that will require more of us.

If you think of yourself as an hourly worker than the thought of being a "professional anything" is never going to occur. I have asked my staff over the years to use words like professional and the correct way to do it is so and so.

If we create a tool that allows poorly trained opticians to offer the correct solutions for the patient have we gone forward or backward in thinking?

[Wisconsin ABO]

The average Optician makes more than a teacher in many states, and that requires a minimum of a bachelors degree. Since you clearly have no idea what you are talking about regarding the cost of typical community college, it is minimal, and the cost-benefit is there. Your thinking is archaic, and mirrors the tradesman mentality we need to get away from. Opticians need to do more, and that will require more of us.

Will, take a look at these figures. The average teacher salary is higher than the average optician salary in every state.

State		Average Salary
Alabama		$47,949
Alaska		$65,468
Arizona		$49,885
Arkansas		$46,631
California		$69,324
Colorado		$49,844
Connecticut		$69,397
Delaware		$59,679
Florida		$46,598
Georgia		$52,880
Hawaii		$54,300
Idaho		$49,734
Illinois		$59,113
Indiana		$50,065
Iowa		$50,946
Kansas		$47,464
Kentucky		$50,203
Louisiana		$51,381
Maine		$48,430
Maryland		$64,248
Massachusetts		$72,334
Michigan		$61,560
Minnesota		$56,268
Mississippi		$41,814
Missouri		$47,517
Montana		$48,855
Nebraska		$48,997
Nevada		$55,957
New Hampshire		$55,599
New Jersey		$68,797
New Mexico		$45,453
New York		$75,279
North Carolina		$45,737
North Dakota		$47,344
Ohio		$56,307
Oklahoma		$44,373
Oregon		$57,612
Pennsylvania		$62,994
Rhode Island		$63,474
South Carolina		$48,375
South Dakota		$39,018
Tennessee		$47,563
Texas		$48,819
Utah		$49,393
Vermont		$52,526
Virginia		$48,670
Washington		$52,234
West Virginia		$45,453
Wisconsin		$53,797
Wyoming		$56,775

State			Annual mean wage
Alabama			$30,430
Alaska			$39,290
Arizona			$32,620
Arkansas			$28,680
California			$37,460
Colorado			$35,660
Connecticut			$52,180
Delaware			$36,420
D.C.			$35,360
Florida			$37,170
Georgia			$35,110
Hawaii			$42,310
Idaho			$26,190
Illinois			$30,090
Indiana			$27,870
Iowa			$27,700
Kansas			$26,170
Kentucky			$33,450
Louisiana			$29,850
Maine			$32,520
Maryland			$35,340
Massachusetts			$49,690
Michigan			$32,210
Minnesota			$36,140
Mississippi			$29,220
Missouri			$26,580
Montana			$28,150
Nebraska			$25,760
Nevada			$37,830
New Hampshire			$38,410
New Jersey			$49,130
New Mexico			$30,520
New York			$45,940
North Carolina			$36,380
North Dakota			$28,070
Ohio			$34,250
Oklahoma			$24,000
Oregon			$35,950
Pennsylvania			$32,820
Puerto Rico			$27,030
Rhode Island			$39,870
South Carolina			$33,720
South Dakota			$27,760
Tennessee			$32,290
Texas			$27,630
Utah			$30,700
Vermont			$35,440
Virginia			$46,540
Washington			$39,400
West Virginia			$27,030
Wisconsin			$30,190
Wyoming			$29,010

[wmcdonald]

Not sure where you data comes from, but salaries for Opticians, according to my research and supported by annual NAO surveys are significantly higher than what you report here. In my state, 40-50 is average for licensed folks some report they are Opticians when if fact that is not the case. Give up if you will, but I cannot.

[wmcdonald]

Depends, Craig. May be two different markets/approaches.

[Wisconsin ABO]

Not sure where you data comes from, but salaries for Opticians, according to my research and supported by annual NAO surveys are significantly higher than what you report here. In my state, 40-50 is average for licensed folks some report they are Opticians when if fact that is not the case. Give up if you will, but I cannot.

Provide a link to the NAO surveys, William.

[wmcdonald]

They sell them. I do not have a link. Sorry.

[Wisconsin ABO]

They sell them. I do not have a link. Sorry.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/op...dispensing.htm

Take a look at the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics then, Willis.

2014 Median Pay	$34,280 per year $16.48 per hour

[wmcdonald]

I think I explained that earlier. BLS is incorrect. NAO may have an older version of their study online if you want to check. NAO studies have been widely used for years. My own research was published in Eye Care Professional. You are welcome to look them up. I am lecturing today to alarge group of NC Opticians today and tooka quick survey of their salaries, and it is 49,000.00. The managers in the room are higher. But this ongoing dialogue is of little value. You have some initial data that indicates Opticians salaires are different that those I describe. my study population came from members of NAO. BLS measures anyone called an Optician. I stand by mine, you disagree. OK.

[wmcdonald]

So what folks are saying here is Opticianry, which I must assume is their field, is crappy. We do not need to know anything and don't waste your time. Am I correct? I want to improve it, despite the naysayers. Do as you wish, but it can be better if we just develop a plan. And I wonder who William is? Or Willis?

[rbaker]

According to the Department of Labor Statistics and my local School Department Labor Contract for last year I find the following statistics.

A Dispensing Optician in Oregon will earn a mean annual salary of $34,120.00 They might receive a health insurance package and work 200 days a year.

An Elementary School teacher in my town in Southern Oregon will start out at $58,000.00 a year and can easily add an additional $10,000.00 if they also perform the duties of lunch room monitor, girls field hockey assistant coach and debating team. The health insurance plan is exempt from the ACA and therefore has very low, and in some cases, no deductibles and co-pays. The real money comes in their PERS (Public Employee Retirement Account) when after 30 years of service they will receive a monthly kiss in the mail worth a minimum of $61,500 per annum. The work schedule is for 6 hours per day - 120 days a year.

Now I do realize that some Opticians (what ever that means) make more than the $34,120.00 cited above and a lot make quite a bit less and I am sure that there are some variances in these figures from State to State.

That being said, I certainly would advised my grandchildren to spend a few more bucks of money and spend four years at the State Cow College, majoring in Education rather than a "career" as an optician earning what in many cases is somewhat below a living wage.

[Wisconsin ABO]

I think I explained that earlier. BLS is incorrect. NAO may have an older version of their study online if you want to check. NAO studies have been widely used for years. My own research was published in Eye Care Professional. You are welcome to look them up. I am lecturing today to alarge group of NC Opticians today and tooka quick survey of their salaries, and it is 49,000.00. The managers in the room are higher. But this ongoing dialogue is of little value. You have some initial data that indicates Opticians salaires are different that those I describe. my study population came from members of NAO. BLS measures anyone called an Optician. I stand by mine, you disagree. OK.

Sorry Wilson but a survey does not hold much credibility. A basic introduction to psychology course will reveal that people will exaggerate their achievements in order to impress others. Unless you provide some statistical analysis, I stand by what the government has to say. I could say I had conducted a "survey" of eye care professionals and opticians, and the results indicated that they made on average $34,000.

[Wes]

And I wonder who William is? Or Willis?

Dunno, Warren. Seems like this fellow is purposely misusing your name in an effort to be insulting.

[Craig]

Dunno, Warren. Seems like this fellow is purposely misusing your name in an effort to be insulting.

I agree; please remove the troll from the forum if it will not be respectful of anyone and is only here to cause issues with real people.
Craig

[AngeHamm]

I agree; please remove the troll from the forum if it will not be respectful of anyone and is only here to cause issues with real people.
Craig

+1.

[mervinek]

I agree; please remove the troll from the forum if it will not be respectful of anyone and is only here to cause issues with real people.
Craig

+1

[Wisconsin ABO]

I agree; please remove the troll from the forum if it will not be respectful of anyone and is only here to cause issues with real people.
Craig

+1

[Craig]

I guess the troll thinks this is funny. It might be time to out the troll and it might not want to hear what I have to say but the next step is to contact your employer because no one could be this dumb and own a business.