Putting blue light to bed!

[Uilleann]

I have to ask a clarifying question- So Robert Marc has his credentials and I'm not doubting his knowledge; but I would like to better understand his involvement. What I'm trying to differentiate is that he worked on the blue light research but did not attach his name to such research because he doesn't agree with the 'conclusion' that was agreed on by whoever else deemed blue light harmful? I didn't see anything to show involvement on his website- though he has plenty of other projects.

He keeps getting referenced as the person who CAN discredit the 'research' but it's hard to completely flip my view when there is one against an army. I wish I could of had the same experience to speak face to face because I know that would make an incomparable impact.

So far this is what I have determined from a variety of sources:

*blue light protection can help reduce eye strain / fatigue
*blue light effects sleep patterns
*blue light may possible perhaps try and cause retinal damage in super high dosage over an infinite time span??

As you can see, I'm still on the fence a little- mainly because I have NO WAY of testing the last theory myself.

...And to be perfectly honest I think the biggest factor will be time.

BTW thanks for being the messenger!

He's retired from active research now so far as I know, and actually has started a cool little hard cider orchard (of all things) down in south central Utah. But I don't expect he'd be hard to track down to talk to. I found him very approachable, and kind with his time and knowledge. But I would think he would be happy to share his insights either via email or a phone call if one so wished. He's also whip smart about cider apples - which, let's be honest - is really what we should be concentrating on now! ;)

As for flipping your view, I wouldn't say it's one against an army. I would say some research seemed to possibly point towards potential for damage to some extent, over some unspecified time, and at further unspecified wavelengths or exposures. But there is just as much that came up completely opposite - in other words inconclusive. The only "army" of opinions that exists is the well funded marketing departments of the lens manufacturers.

But again, I would certainly looking Mark up and reaching out directly if you have questions he could answer. I wasn't expecting his answer when I asked him about it all the other night honestly. *shrug*

He really needs to publish a peer-reviewed article, then.

I believe he has. But you can always call or email him to ask him yourself? He's quite a charming gentleman, and seemed very happy to talk about both the science of retinal tissue, and his new love of cider apples. :)

[Robert Martellaro]

I'm eagerly awaiting Crizal's new Hi-Blue-Violet transmission Anti-Myopia lenses.

You know it. Haut Bleu, for those who truly love their eyeglass wearing children.

He really needs to publish a peer-reviewed article, then.

FWIW...https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...r_uid=18483561

[lensmanmd]

So here is the catch. According to papers published by Vision Ease, it takes 10 hours of iPhone time to equal 15 minutes of sun time. All of the research linking HEV from overexposure to sunlight and its contribution to AMD cannot be debunked. Handheld devices may contribute, but who stares at a device for 10 hours straight? Electronic devices contributing to AMD is overrated and can be debunked, but constant exposure to HEV cannot be marginalized.

I met with a VE rep several weeks ago and asked the question as to why the research was not centered on artificial lighting (CFL/LED). This is where HEV exposure, other than from the sun, comes into play in our daily lives. If my research is correct, LED wavelengths center around 420nm, at least the light bulbs that we are subjected to 8 or more hours a day. Hopefully, the rep will take that question back to R&D. We shall see.

On a side note, the Asian research linking myopia to the lack of exposure to 400nm-420nm is quite interesting, however. Is our industry, in its zeal to prevent ocular diseases, creating other problems?

[Chris Ryser]

As you can see, I'm still on the fence a little- mainly because I have NO WAY of testing the last theory myself.

...And to be perfectly honest I think the biggest factor will be time.

BTW thanks for being the messenger!

AMA Adopts Guidance on Selecting LED Lighting to Minimize Human Effects

The Annual Meeting of the AMA adopted guidance for selecting LED options to minimize potential risk

• Jun 23, 2016

Physicians at the Annual Meeting of the AMA have adopted guidance for selecting LED lighting options in order to minimize harmful human and environmental effects, according to a press release.

"Despite the energy efficiency benefits, some LED lights are harmful when used as street lighting," AMA Board Member Maya A. Babu, M.D., M.B.A. "The new AMA guidance encourages proper attention to optimal design and engineering features when converting to LED lighting that minimize detrimental health and environmental effects."

According to the release, blue-rich LED lighting can potentially decrease visual acuity and safety, thus creating a road hazard. High-intensity LED lighting emits a large amount of this blue light.

continue reading :

https://www.ama-assn.org/ama-adopts-...street-lightsm ,

https://ohsonline.com/articles/2016/...n-effects.aspx

[drk]

Is our industry, in its zeal to prevent ocular diseases, creating other problems?

Don't worry. Our industry is not really that zealous about eye disease. It's probably something else that gets their zeal going.

[Browman]

So here is the catch. According to papers published by Vision Ease, it takes 10 hours of iPhone time to equal 15 minutes of sun time. All of the research linking HEV from overexposure to sunlight and its contribution to AMD cannot be debunked. Handheld devices may contribute, but who stares at a device for 10 hours straight? Electronic devices contributing to AMD is overrated and can be debunked, but constant exposure to HEV cannot be marginalized.

I met with a VE rep several weeks ago and asked the question as to why the research was not centered on artificial lighting (CFL/LED). This is where HEV exposure, other than from the sun, comes into play in our daily lives. If my research is correct, LED wavelengths center around 420nm, at least the light bulbs that we are subjected to 8 or more hours a day. Hopefully, the rep will take that question back to R&D. We shall see.

On a side note, the Asian research linking myopia to the lack of exposure to 400nm-420nm is quite interesting, however. Is our industry, in its zeal to prevent ocular diseases, creating other problems?

This is my big concern. There are stores now replacing their lights with LEDs. I recently moved, and found that my local Wal-Mart and Target had both switched over to carrying only LED bulbs in store; I had to choose an alternative from Lowe's very limited selection. Meanwhile, there are people who spent 10+ hours a day staring at laptops and televisions. I'm not so much concerned about the ramifications of iPhones as I am TVs, computers, and overhead lighting.

[Uilleann]

So light bulbs (just like LCD screens, or even any incandescent, fluorescent, halogen, etc. of yore) are all different. There are massively different emission spectrums, and to state they all have "dangerous" levels of blue light is both disingenuous and erroneous. Many LED bulbs today are specifically designed to mimic a warm, incandescent spectra.

[Browman]

So light bulbs (just like LCD screens, or even any incandescent, fluorescent, halogen, etc. of yore) are all different. There are massively different emission spectrums, and to state they all have "dangerous" levels of blue light is both disingenuous and erroneous. Many LED bulbs today are specifically designed to mimic a warm, incandescent spectra.

What about television sets and computer monitors? (I know that tone doesn't carry in online posts so this isn't me being contrarian- it's an honest question!)

[Uilleann]

It depends on the screen of course, but there are literally NONE of them that come close to the exposure levels of even a few minutes of sunlight. Computer monitors can easily be adjusted to extreme effect in the settings control panels. And of course we all probably remember the charts that were posted here some time ago showing that "scary" blue spike on a few mobile device screens. And how even moving the color temp setting one single click away from the blue extreme caused the spike to vanish... Televisions probably depend on the model, the panel/screen type, luminance of the material, and how many underwater documentaries one watches (what else would be primarily blue?) ;) *shrug*

[ikon44]

I found this paper very interesting and instructive, and could not really disagree with the conclusions.

http://www.energyfocusinc.com/wp-con...ublication.pdf

[lensmanmd]

I have difficulties accepting articles that promote a particular manufacturer. This paper, for example, promotes Blu-Tech. Its basically an ad with some factoids.

[Uilleann]

I found this paper very interesting and instructive, and could not really disagree with the conclusions.

http://www.energyfocusinc.com/wp-con...ublication.pdf

I agree with lensmanmd. This is a fancy paid ad for Macuhealth and Blu-tech lenses. Nothing more.

[ikon44]

I have difficulties accepting articles that promote a particular manufacturer. This paper, for example, promotes Blu-Tech. Its basically an ad with some factoids.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18852418

This study published in pub med has found a link with AMD and blue light in pxs with lower than normal levels of antioxidents.

[lensmanmd]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18852418

This study published in pub med has found a link with AMD and blue light in pxs with lower than normal levels of antioxidents.

Thanks ikon

This, I can digest. Its cautionary, but does recommend protection and dietary controls for higher risk patients. However, it is dated 2008, and well before the mass use of LEDs. Would you have a link to a more recent study?

[userod]

I have nothing to offer but skepticism. Please someone, stop promoting blue light as dangerous. It's all dangerous if you want it to be.

Don't get California started on requiring a warning that lenses may not protect from blue light. Actually, I think there are some smart people that won't let that happen but let's not be a profession that is selling a "supplement" that is ridiculous like every other vitamin or supplement.

Sure, there are some conditions/diseases that have a deficiency and benefits from supplementing. But blue light? How novel and while absurd.

[IC-UC]

I have nothing to offer but skepticism. Please someone, stop promoting blue light as dangerous. It's all dangerous if you want it to be.

Don't get California started on requiring a warning that lenses may not protect from blue light. Actually, I think there are some smart people that won't let that happen but let's not be a profession that is selling a "supplement" that is ridiculous like every other vitamin or supplement.

Sure, there are some conditions/diseases that have a deficiency and benefits from supplementing. But blue light? How novel and while absurd.

Not so ridiculous.....there is a vitamin for that!!

[userod]

Wow, unfortunately not beyond the imagination of bull****

Not so ridiculous.....there is a vitamin for that!!

[Chris Ryser]

Early commercial devices lacked sophistication, adopting the currently available LED technology that was small, 350×350 mm²,and operated at low drive currents, typically 20 mA, producing 1.16 mW of power.

The last decade has seen the scaling of LEDs to larger areas, 1×1 μm², and higher drive currents of >350 mA with significantly increased power output >1,000 mW [2].During this period, LED devices were also optimized for use in illumination applications, and reflected from a surface instead of emitted directly.

In addition, white-light LEDs degrade over time primarily through bleaching of phosphors so that they no longer efficiently absorb blue light [7].This shifts the color temperature of the device over time, with a corresponding change in the color-rendering index but, more importantly, an increasing blue emission from the device with time.


In this review, we summarize the current knowledge of the effects of blue light on the regulation of physiologic function and the effects of blue light exposure on ocular health. Finally, we discuss the available data to determine whether long-term exposure to blue light is safe or whether additional studies are needed to fully understand the effects of blue light exposure on ocular health.

Acknowledgments

This work was supported by grants from the National Institutes of Health Grants R01EY022216 by the NASA Cooperative Agreement NCC 9–58 with the National Space Biomedical Research Institute to G.T.
Mol Vis. 2016; 22: 61–72. Published online 2016 Jan 24.



see all of it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734149

[Uilleann]

Sounds like the AOA is starting to have misgivings about the blue hype as well. Surprising it took this long given that the "big bad blue" studies were all so shaky in their conclusions and methodologies.

https://invisionmag.com/news/headlin...ctors-say.html

[userod]

Thanks for posting that. Unfortunately there's now a market to block blue light and softly taking back all the claims to protect eyes from it won't take back people's memories.

Sounds like the AOA is starting to have misgivings about the blue hype as well. Surprising it took this long given that the "big bad blue" studies were all so shaky in their conclusions and methodologies.

https://invisionmag.com/news/headlin...ctors-say.html

[mervinek]

Now I've seen it all. I was ordering some bare minerals online and they had a thing about how bad blue light is for your skin. I just rolled my eyes and did my thing. I didn't watch the video. I'm sure they were trying to sell some new product to prevent whatever it is that they say blue light does. I guess everyone is hopping on the blue light band wagon.

[ajonesgirl]

Now I've seen it all. I was ordering some bare minerals online and they had a thing about how bad blue light is for your skin. I just rolled my eyes and did my thing. I didn't watch the video. I'm sure they were trying to sell some new product to prevent whatever it is that they say blue light does. I guess everyone is hopping on the blue light band wagon.

My dermatologist is also a professor at a local medical school. When I went to see him a couple of years ago, he was actually studying the effects of blue light on the skin's aging process. I have no idea what his conclusions were, though, as I haven't seen him since.

[Tallboy]

[Uilleann]

[Don Gilman]

Wow ...neat photo. When i look at this original thread I believe it says "Putting this thread to bed"....WHEN?