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Thread: Putting blue light to bed!

  1. #26
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    So why don't we all shift the color temperature of our devices from Blue towards red. .. like my optiboard defaults to a lot of blue and white. I think we can set it towards Brown.

    It's easier to set color temperature on desktop screens. .. or better yet, computer programmers and Web site writers could use more red colors. .. less white.

    I'm still not convinced.

  2. #27
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    It's all smoke and mirrors, fjpod.

  3. #28
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    Actually all lenses reflect a percentage of every wavelength, absorb a percentage of every wavelength, and transmit the remainder of every wavelength. Thin films can adjust the reflectivity both up and down and pigments can be added to lens substrate to increase absorpition of various wavelengths. All lenses also can block a portion of convection heat transfer through air by both reflectance and absorption. I'm sorry my analogy between the histories of infrared caused cataracts and possible visible blue light mediated macular problems was not as clear as I'd hoped.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpod View Post
    So why don't we all shift the color temperature of our devices from Blue towards red. .. like my optiboard defaults to a lot of blue and white. I think we can set it towards Brown.

    It's easier to set color temperature on desktop screens. .. or better yet, computer programmers and Web site writers could use more red colors. .. less white.

    I'm still not convinced.
    on another thread I mentioned how to easily change the optiboard "skin" from default blue white to "arizona desert sky" which is what I use.

    That thread is titled "Blue Avoidance"
    Last edited by Dr. Bill Stacy; 10-11-2015 at 02:02 PM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bill Stacy View Post
    Actually all lenses reflect a percentage of every wavelength, absorb a percentage of every wavelength, and transmit the remainder of every wavelength.
    Which is what a spectral transmission chart will tell you. An uncoated curved surface spectacle lens (glass/plastic/whatever) generally speaking reflects 2% per surface. Flat lenses reflect more due to the physics of the shape.

  6. #31
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    Unfortunately the transmission plot will not tell you what percentages are reflected vs. absorbed, and some of the higher index of refraction materials can reflect up around 10%, maybe more for some wavelengths. And both front and back surfaces reflect in both directions, so there's also the existence of multiple internal reflections.

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    Alas, you still do not understand, grasshopper. Perhaps one day wisdom will be granted unto you.

  8. #33
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    Somebody better change the color of the sky, the oceans, and the lakes.

    I knew there was a use for air and water pollution.

    Yay smog. Yay red tide.

    There goes all my blue shirts and ties...do you know how much blue light they reflect up into my face?

  9. #34
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    Let me make this very clear. If this bickering and insulting continues, I will have no choice but to permanently ban the offenders.


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  10. #35
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    Honestly, mine was just an attempt at humor. No offense intended.

  11. #36
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    There seems to be lots of ways that companies measure the light being filtered from the different spectrums with their lens material and coatings. But we hear very little if any about weather the eye can even perceive the the filtering being done or how it even reacts to the filtering. Nothing anymore then the relief of headache or fatigue.

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    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpod View Post
    Honestly, mine was just an attempt at humor. No offense intended.
    No worries. You weren't the one this was directed at.


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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCGREEN View Post
    There seems to be lots of ways that companies measure the light being filtered from the different spectrums with their lens material and coatings. But we hear very little if any about weather the eye can even perceive the the filtering being done or how it even reacts to the filtering. Nothing anymore then the relief of headache or fatigue.
    This does seem to be a key factor completely missing doesn't it. As best I'm able to tell, this whole blue light thing started with the Oakley/Gunnar people trying to find a new avenue to boost their sagging sales numbers back in what 2006 or 07? When they invented their "new" and "magical" yellow lenses, high base curve "moisture chambers" (their own words - not mine), and the miraculous +0.60 power that made gamers eyes so much "healthier".

    Seems everyone else jumped on the bandwagon shortly thereafter.

  14. #39
    Master OptiBoarder mdeimler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    Let me make this very clear. If this bickering and insulting continues, I will have no choice but to permanently ban the offenders.
    Thank you for stepping in. I'm very interested in the blue light discussion but not the personal attacks on someones "lack of wisdom."

  15. #40
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    Redhot Jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by rmnrdi View Post

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    About around 1985 and these would have sold for $ 8.50 through a 1-800 number and advertised through the whole continent without any internet.

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    I'm a little curious. It's no secret that people are living longer which is causing us to see an increase in these cases. Is it not possible that the human eye never truly adapted because it didn't need to? Two hundred years ago the thought of someone making it to the age of 90 was pure fantasy. I guess what I'm wondering is if the average age for macular degeneration has decreased, or is it that we are just now getting around to properly diagnosing it?

    It's like living in an uneven house. Everyone knows that things roll a certain way and always have but nobody complains about it until someone brings home a level?
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  18. #43
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    Don't forget Chris, the blue blockers (old) had their own rap song too.

    I don't think any of the new blue blocking coatings have their own rap song. This makes them inferior from the start.
    Robert Minardi ABO-AC
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    Blue Jumper I just caught this one. , and can add ....................

    Quote Originally Posted by rmnrdi View Post

    Don't forget Chris, the blue blockers (old) had their own rap song too.

    I don't think any of the new blue blocking coatings have their own rap song. This makes them inferior from the start.


    I just caught this one. , and can add that the old "Blue Blocker Sunglasses" have become my favorites over the last few years, after having had my cataracts done.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmnrdi View Post
    Don't forget Chris, the blue blockers (old) had their own rap song too.

    I don't think any of the new blue blocking coatings have their own rap song. This makes them inferior from the start.
    It's hard to rhyme with "Prevencia" or "Recharge."
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  21. #46
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    I dunno....Prevencia makes a lot of horse-sensia...

  22. #47
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    The study I have from them uses Porcine cells from pigs, is there another study that uses rats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bill Stacy View Post
    As far as the precise wavelengths of concern, Essilor's study on rat retina cells pretty conclusively nailed that down to those in the deep blue/violet or indigo. I can't recall the precise wave length, but they tuned their Prevencia to reflect maximally at that wavelength. The problem with all biology and physiology is that we are dealing with living, moving things and the precision you might be interested in is not possible, everything is + or - a probability factor or factors. Not much in science is as black and white as you'd like. If it were, there would be little or no controversy at all.

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    There are inherent problems with all of these in vitro studies using animal tissue (in vitro means using a petri dish).

    1. The eye contains inherent protection and recovery mechanisms that are removed for these tests as they are using petri dishes. Blue light is only an issue if the energy exceeds the body's ability to protect and recover.

    2. These tests use high intensity direct light, where most Blue Light we receive is both low intensity and indirect (even the CFL your cell phone is not pointing at you). Any color of light in enough intensity will damage cellular tissue.

    3. The visual systems of animals are usually attuned to gathering leafy produce and predator protection in a specific environment, as well many animals have far better night vision if they feed nocturnally (or even at dawn and dusk like dear). They will have vastly different color perception and response than humans. Humans by contrast are tuned to recognizing poor sports officiating and finding checks in unopened stacks of mail, both of which we are superb at. In effect the wavelength response SHOULD be different than a human.

    4. None of these tests, even the ones Essilor has paid for, bothered to throw a simple yellow tint in front of their retinal cell culture to see if the product is effective at the same light levels and intensity they tested at. Why?

    5. Since Blue Light has more inherent energy (about 40% more than Red) we would expect more damage from exposure, anything else would contradict light theory. Since many animals are attuned to Green (they eat produce) comparing the damage of Red and Blue is far more neutral than comparing the damage of green and blue. Yes, red will still cause damage given enough intensity. Many of these studies are just confirming what we already know.

    6. In Ophthalmology, over 60 studies have failed to find a link between Blue Light and AMD, and2 studies point to Blue light actually reducing AMD. (especially the huge Rotterndam elder study)

    7. Even if cellular damage is proven in living humans from blue light, its still a huge leap to tie that cellular damage to AMD as they are not currently and randomly linked. Another set of studies is needed.

    8. Some of these studies are financially supported by manufacturers of lens products. Sketchers had 2 studies "proving" their Shape right Toning Shoes improved calf muscles, and they still lost $40 million because they were biased. Healthcare claims have a VERY high standard of proof here in the US. This is all lawsuit waiting to happen.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bill Stacy View Post
    As far as the precise wavelengths of concern, Essilor's study on rat retina cells pretty conclusively nailed that down to those in the deep blue/violet or indigo. I can't recall the precise wave length, but they tuned their Prevencia to reflect maximally at that wavelength. The problem with all biology and physiology is that we are dealing with living, moving things and the precision you might be interested in is not possible, everything is + or - a probability factor or factors. Not much in science is as black and white as you'd like. If it were, there would be little or no controversy at all.

  24. #49
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    No scientific studies are perfect. The video I saw from Essilor plainly used several different wavelengths and compared the viability of the cells after equal exposure to those wavelengths. When a significant difference was noted in apoptosis for a particular narrow band than all the others, that's pretty conclusive evidence that "something" is happening that is different for blue/violet than for the other wavelengths, and that "something" does not sound beneficial to me, and may turn out to be actually unhealthy for the retina. Time will tell.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    There are inherent problems with all of these in vitro studies using animal tissue (in vitro means using a petri dish).

    1. The eye contains inherent protection and recovery mechanisms that are removed for these tests as they are using petri dishes. Blue light is only an issue if the energy exceeds the body's ability to protect and recover.

    2. These tests use high intensity direct light, where most Blue Light we receive is both low intensity and indirect (even the CFL your cell phone is not pointing at you). Any color of light in enough intensity will damage cellular tissue.

    3. The visual systems of animals are usually attuned to gathering leafy produce and predator protection in a specific environment, as well many animals have far better night vision if they feed nocturnally (or even at dawn and dusk like dear). They will have vastly different color perception and response than humans. Humans by contrast are tuned to recognizing poor sports officiating and finding checks in unopened stacks of mail, both of which we are superb at. In effect the wavelength response SHOULD be different than a human.

    4. None of these tests, even the ones Essilor has paid for, bothered to throw a simple yellow tint in front of their retinal cell culture to see if the product is effective at the same light levels and intensity they tested at. Why?

    5. Since Blue Light has more inherent energy (about 40% more than Red) we would expect more damage from exposure, anything else would contradict light theory. Since many animals are attuned to Green (they eat produce) comparing the damage of Red and Blue is far more neutral than comparing the damage of green and blue. Yes, red will still cause damage given enough intensity. Many of these studies are just confirming what we already know.

    6. In Ophthalmology, over 60 studies have failed to find a link between Blue Light and AMD, and2 studies point to Blue light actually reducing AMD. (especially the huge Rotterndam elder study)

    7. Even if cellular damage is proven in living humans from blue light, its still a huge leap to tie that cellular damage to AMD as they are not currently and randomly linked. Another set of studies is needed.

    8. Some of these studies are financially supported by manufacturers of lens products. Sketchers had 2 studies "proving" their Shape right Toning Shoes improved calf muscles, and they still lost $40 million because they were biased. Healthcare claims have a VERY high standard of proof here in the US. This is all lawsuit waiting to happen.
    This seems to be the most comprehensive, unbiased presentation of some facts on the subject. Thanks.

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