This is serious.

[Tigerclaw]

Oh yeah, that must be it. It's my business model, not my concern over seeing the effective deregulation of vision care add to the over-regulation of our profession.

Oh wait.... I don't sell glasses currently. Guess your pushing the blame on me was a bit pedestrian and ill-founded.

Patients shouldn't be allowed to go online PERIOD for glasses or contacts. The people who do that are generally the more foolish and less intelligent and need extra protection from these companies. Giving them their PD which is ONLY needed for people to go online is tantamount to approving the online model, and I will not do it.

[MakeOptics]

What purpose does my license serve me as a business owner? None; it is not a level playing field so why not give up the fight at some point when you realize their is nothing worth fighting for?

Why does Barry, myself or Johns need a license? We are independent retailers who happen to sell optical products with a crutch attached (license) that prevents me from hiring the best people for the job. The job is not taking a PD or a set ht; that is way too easy but entails getting employees to be trusted by clients we will do the right thing at a fair price while standing behind what you offer.

If we could refract that would help my clients see as well as possible, more than occurs now in the present system.

Time for a new system or none at all.

Welcome to the dark side my friend. Licensure once opticians can get over the fact are nothing but a crutch like you have so succinctly put. I would rather no rules to play by then rules that only apply to 1/2 the providers. Licensure does also keep the floor from falling out of the bottom by proping up salaries and reducing opportunities for growth. This is a mature industry business people and engineers are looking at this industry for opportunities like all other mature industries. I wonder if licensing and regulation are holding our countries smartest minds back from entering and disrupting? This disruption can bring about change, everyone assumes change is going to be bad, but everyone also agrees that the state of current affairs is no good. I feel as though licensing just slows down the inevitable change on the horizon, I would rather a pull of the band aid and marked delineation of when old school and new school meet so measuring impact would be easier.

[MikeAurelius]

How spiteful must some of you be? You want us to provide PD's, why? So patients can go online? The word "stupid" gets tossed around so often that it loses its meaning. Thanks to some of you sour grapes sadists for reminding me of the true meaning of stupid. How does having the PD serve you, other than watching the OD's suffer? Wanna send your business online so you can point and laugh at us from your chair in the unemployment office?

I DON'T measure PD, I WILL NOT measure PD, I WILL NOT provide PD if "required". I may provide "a" PD but you can bet it will be off by a few millimeters. In the alternative, I will charge for it, even if it just means a price increase. I am NOT working harder to allow morons to go online to meet their vision needs based on some idiotic idea that online is safe, better, or even as good.

I'll take a moment to remind you that this forum is openly read by the public. While you may not be the only OD in Houston, it would be fairly easy to find out which one you are if the rules are changed as proposed. Your post will indicate a resolve to violate Federal Law (and yea, you're from Texas, bla bla bla), and with your public statement, it would be pretty easy to make an example of you as a warning to others.

I write this a friendly caution to think it, not write it.

I'll also note that this moron (me) buys a lot of things on the internet. It's made my company a lot more profitable, and I can find parts and supplies very easily with a couple of mouse clicks and a few key words in a google search. While I don't take it as a personal insult, you might choose your words a bit better in the future, with an eye towards the public consumers/patients that are most likely reading OptiBoard.

[Tigerclaw]

I'm from Texas! lol Yeah you got me there....

Can't a guy vent? I would think more people would take this seriously, but it's as though half of you are perfectly fine with overseas scammers and monopolistic vision plans/retailers take over the market. You have to fight! Even if it doesn't affect you today, who will be there to stand for you when it does affect you tomorrow?

Again, I am not saying ALL online - I buy tons of things online -but you wouldn't by your kid's chemo online. Not as crucial as glasses, obviously, but vision is up there in terms of importance once it's missing.

[Chris Ryser]

Patients shouldn't be allowed to go online PERIOD for glasses or contacts. The people who do that are generally the more foolish and less intelligent and need extra protection from these companies. Giving them their PD which is ONLY needed for people to go online is tantamount to approving the online model, and I will not do it.

There was approximately 24 million that purchased glasses on-line last year, and probably 2-3 million more this year......and the count seems to increase as we go along, until all of us in retail and in supplies will be guaranteed to feel it.

One example is OptiBoards Market Place Forum that seems never to have been that busy.

[Dr. Bill Stacy]

How spiteful must some of you be? You want us to provide PD's, why? So patients can go online? The word "stupid" gets tossed around so often that it loses its meaning. Thanks to some of you sour grapes sadists for reminding me of the true meaning of stupid. How does having the PD serve you, other than watching the OD's suffer? Wanna send your business online so you can point and laugh at us from your chair in the unemployment office?

I DON'T measure PD, I WILL NOT measure PD, I WILL NOT provide PD if "required". I may provide "a" PD but you can bet it will be off by a few millimeters. In the alternative, I will charge for it, even if it just means a price increase. I am NOT working harder to allow morons to go online to meet their vision needs based on some idiotic idea that online is safe, better, or even as good.

I can understand your ire about doing it, so fine, refuse to do it until it becomes illegal not to do it, but don't you dare put a false P.D. on an Rx. That's just asking to be shut down by whomever regulates your business or by the feds, and to be sued for big bucks by the deep pocket companies who'll come after you because you are damaging their customers, willfully and with apparent spite and malfeasance.

[Tigerclaw]

I can understand your ire about doing it, so fine, refuse to do it until it becomes illegal not to do it, but don't you dare put a false P.D. on an Rx. That's just asking to be shut down by whomever regulates your business or by the feds, and to be sued for big bucks by the deep pocket companies who'll come after you because you are damaging their customers, willfully and with apparent spite and malfeasance.

Yeah, I wouldn't do that. I'd just jack up my prices. That was me being angry at 1am at one guy who for some reason has influence despite cheerleading the downfall of optometry.

Here's a question for many of you anti-optometry guys: If our model becomes unsustainable and store-bought glasses go the way of store-bought books, where do you think all the OD's will go? Or rather, whose jobs do you think we will seek to take?

[Tigerclaw]

There was approximately 24 million that purchased glasses on-line last year, and probably 2-3 million more this year......and the count seems to increase as we go along, until all of us in retail and in supplies will be guaranteed to feel it.

One example is OptiBoards Market Place Forum that seems never to have been that busy.

This is why I am advocating for the full repeal of both "Rules" and can justify their repeal against the most vicious of anti-optometry arguments. And yes, full repeal is actually part of the discussion. Just because Chuck Schumer wants to push it being MORE burdensome doesn't mean he speaks for anyone other than himself and the lobbyist who paid for his new car (satire, speculation).

[Dr. Bill Stacy]

Yeah, I wouldn't do that. I'd just jack up my prices. That was me being angry at 1am at one guy who for some reason has influence despite cheerleading the downfall of optometry.

Here's a question for many of you anti-optometry guys: If our model becomes unsustainable and store-bought glasses go the way of store-bought books, where do you think all the OD's will go? Or rather, whose jobs do you think we will seek to take?

Glad to hear that. There will always be brick and mortar optometry. But for those O.D.s who can't or wont compete in this brave new world, there's always Kaiser, the military, the VA, working for M.D.s, or better yet, working for the O.D.s who survive. Now then, I can include VSP in that list. They are apparently hiring an OD to run an eye clinic inside my local Intel facility (6000+ employees at the Folsom plant).

And now I hear the families of those employees will be able to use that facility. Here I thought security wouldn't let them past the front gate before this. At least another 6K patients for them to bleed off the local VSP docs. Depending on how "loyal" my Intel patients turn out to be, I may have to do something to try to lure them back.

Intel is about 3 miles from my office. I'm now 2nd closest VSP doc to them, so I'll be reporting stuff here as it happens. They are due to open for business within a month. They already hired at least one optician.

[pseudonym]

Taking then giving someone their pd is a nuisance request that gets in the way of paying business. Word gets around on who will give the pd, and then you get to do all the freeloader's family and friends. People have different ideas about it, but that's mine.

[Dr. Bill Stacy]

Taking then giving someone their pd is a nuisance request that gets in the way of paying business. Word gets around on who will give the pd, and then you get to do all the freeloader's family and friends. People have different ideas about it, but that's mine.

I always have a patient's current p.d. in the file, and always take it when I do an eye exam on a new patient or a returning youngster whose p.d. increases while growing, or any time I'm suspicious that the p.d. on file is erroneous. So taking the p.d. is not a nuisance to me. Looking it up on my system is a trifle of a nusiance, taking only a very few keystrokes. Now due to the discussions on this subject I have taken it off my SRx printout, but will never refuse a request to give it. That to me is a slap not only at the online or other providers, but to the patient. I've been surprised on how many o.d.s and m.d.s actually don't take p.d.s. I guess they just eyeball the refractor and patients' centration in the apertures? Now that's just silly when taking a p.d. takes less than 10 seconds or so including the time to record it.

[Tigerclaw]

Intel is about 3 miles from my office. I'm now 2nd closest VSP doc to them, so I'll be reporting stuff here as it happens. They are due to open for business within a month. They already hired at least one optician.

VSP, Essilor, Luxottica, and others are basically a small tree with a rope tied to the branch. The rope has a noose around our neck, yet we water the tree because we can't get unified. I would really like to form an association where we all oust these jerks.

We have these ersatz monopolies doing IMMENSELY more harm than an OD failing to provide a PD will ever do, but where is the call for their regulation? VSP is the worst, and the least forgivable because they went for so long looking down their noses at retail OD's, telling us we harm the profession. Yeah, we did, in all honesty, but it's one thing to let your dog poop in your neighbor's yard; it's another to set fire to their house.

[Tigerclaw]

I always have a patient's current p.d. in the file, and always take it when I do an eye exam on a new patient or a returning youngster whose p.d. increases while growing, or any time I'm suspicious that the p.d. on file is erroneous. So taking the p.d. is not a nuisance to me. Looking it up on my system is a trifle of a nusiance, taking only a very few keystrokes. Now due to the discussions on this subject I have taken it off my SRx printout, but will never refuse a request to give it. That to me is a slap not only at the online or other providers, but to the patient. I've been surprised on how many o.d.s and m.d.s actually don't take p.d.s. I guess they just eyeball the refractor and patients' centration in the apertures? Now that's just silly when taking a p.d. takes less than 10 seconds or so including the time to record it.

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but online providers deserve a slap and then some. What's next in the interest of crowning the patient king of our office? Posting signs that tell them that they could get cheaper eye exams at the nearest Walmart or Target? Being forced to email them links to competitors' websites and online vendors? It's time we took some of the dignity back to our profession before we end up in gorilla suits handing out balloons trying to get patients to come in. I know these aren't your positions, by the way, just more along the lines of this overly (IMO) protectiveness/coddling of patients. We are doctors, we are the decision makers. Let's keep it that way.

[Dr. Bill Stacy]

Although I'm a Christian, I also believe in Karma, kind of a Buddhist version of the golden rule. You slap people and you're likely to get slapped back, somewhere, some time.

Oh and yeah, call me old fashioned, but yes, the patient is king in my office until they abuse that power.

[Dr. Bill Stacy]

Oh, and yes, I do coddle my patients and listen to their needs, problems, etc. I don't make decisions without considering their needs, and I really don't care for the "Doctor is God" notion that some have.

[Tigerclaw]

We are the "slap back" lol

I don't coddle. I provide excellent customer service, but we're not hired or licensed to coddle. "Doctor is God" may be an offensive notion to patients, but "Customer is King" is for mattress salesmen and leads to us ending up holding the bag. The trick is balancing so yes, needs are met, but that we don't become the commodified doormats to a population increasingly confused to the meaning of the word "deserve" and their entitlement mentalities. Those aren't the people petitioning Congress for changes - it's the corporations that we took in like Mogwais and now the Gremlins have taken over. THAT is where we need to fight.

[Gizzo]

Which optician here wants to accept a PD on a prescriber's Rx rather than take their own?

If it's written on the Rx, I will use the requested PD. I may disagree, but...

[Barry Santini]

I'll take my own. And if slightly different for non-progressive lenses, average the number to be within tolerance to ANSI.

B

[Dr. Bill Stacy]

If it's written on the Rx, I will use the requested PD. I may disagree, but...

Yeah, this is a sticky area. You never know when somebody might be trying to sneak a little horizontal prism using decentration to do it. If I measure a significantly different P.D. than the one on the Rx, and the rx is high enough for prism to matter, I'd venture a call to the prescriber and ask if they want any base * prism on that Rx? If they answer no or I don't know, I'd go with my p.d. If they say yes or maybe, I'll use theirs.

[MikeAurelius]

This is why I am advocating for the full repeal of both "Rules" and can justify their repeal against the most vicious of anti-optometry arguments. And yes, full repeal is actually part of the discussion. Just because Chuck Schumer wants to push it being MORE burdensome doesn't mean he speaks for anyone other than himself and the lobbyist who paid for his new car (satire, speculation).

There is plenty of evidence to support the fact that once consumer protections are put into place, they are never removed or reduced. And a solid case can be made that they will be strengthened when there is push-back from those decrying consumer protection. Restraint of trade is a very serious issue.

[Chris Ryser]

Those aren't the people petitioning Congress for changes - it's the corporations that we took in like Mogwais and now the Gremlins have taken over. THAT is where we need to fight.

Yes it is the corporations ..............and no............you are a few years too late.

The economy has helped the cheap internet sales to grow faster than they ever dreamed of.

This has grown into a world wide system and continues to grow at a faster pace every year.

[Tigerclaw]

I'm not trying to fight the internet, I am talking about speaking up for things that are currently being decided. The "Rules" are coming under their planned re-visits, and the monopolies are growing faster. Anyone notice the hypocrisy in forcing us to release prescriptions/PD's "in the interest of the patient", but not seeming to do anything about the corporations who own every single other step in the chain of production? We are being squeezed, and we CAN do something about it. It's amazing how soon so many people give up. Maybe our symbol should be the white flag.

[Chris Ryser]

Maybe our symbol should be the white flag.

No need for that ........................

Just change your way of charging the public. Up to these days the conventional optical retailer has charged for all services ahead, if given or not , for next few years of the live of the pair of glasses.

This seems to be nor working anymore. The on-line optical's are charging wholesale pricing or close to it.

At the retail end of the supply chain you could easily charge for your services that the only opticals can not give, the hands on work.

You can easily change the system by charging for checking, adjusting, following up, the web purchaser does need, and we all know that.

You can run both the old and the new one side by side, to find out how it works.

[MakeOptics]

I'm not even looking at the game, I am looking at the players and this comment pretty much gives me an idea of what is going to happen. Now it's really just a matter of how to prepare and get ahead. I am working out verbage and looking at options now before the fan gets messy.

[Tigerclaw]

I'm not even looking at the game, I am looking at the players and this comment pretty much gives me an idea of what is going to happen. Now it's really just a matter of how to prepare and get ahead. I am working out verbage and looking at options now before the fan gets messy.

They have Schmucky Schumer in the minority, we have an ophthalmologist in the majority. Rand Paul would make a nice ally.