What do you call an acceptable Lab defect? "venting"

[Jstanfast]

Over the years I have seen lab errors sky-rocket, not because the power is off, automation has made that damn near perfect. I have had issues with constantly receiving lenses scratched or with ARC pits even "lensometer pits". We cannot be the only ones constantly running into this issue?

What has gotten the old blood boiling is I have had lenses scratched right through the OC ,circled the scratch, and sent them back in to be told that lens is "acceptable". I hope that is not normal?

I have finally found a lab that seems to be doing ok, so far. We have "fired" two labs and one seems confused as to why we stopped using them from a conversation I had today... Was told to loosen up on the scratch issue, we are the only ones to make a big deal about scratches... can't be true?

Ansi tolerances aside is it wrong to want that $xxxx set of lenses to be defect free?

Mild vent over,

[rbaker]

Well, don't feel bad. It ain't just the optical business that is faced with growing incompetence, it is everywhere. So far this week, and its only Tuesday, the installer stripped screws on my new exercise bicycle, got stiffed at a doctors appointment (doctor probably sucked too many Fentenal patches and office never called to cancel) and there were only eight pieces in my ten piece Chicken McNuggets. The public schools are turning out dumbbells and half the workforce is stoned.

[Paul Smith LDO]

Labs are like anything else, some are great, some adequate, and some are sh$%. Find one that does the work to your satisfaction and flush the cr$@ in the bowl down the toilet. There are plenty of labs that are doing great work and would be happy to have a new account. Lastly, no you are not alone, plenty of us have had issues with labs and their poor execution of work. Don't pee in my corn flakes and tell me its milk. If I sound like I have irritable bowl syndrome I do, I just finished an hour long conversation with a lab manager couldn't understand what a regressive lens design was.

[Jubilee]

I had that conversation too! Don't you know Paul, we are to just put in the rx, and let them do all the work. Heaven forbid we want to specify the near rx we want for our particular work distance and the regression we want! It just confuses them!

[Dirk]

There is no such thing as an acceptable lab defect. So what that you are the only one to complain about this. The majority of customers are used to mediocre products and services and have become numb. There are a lot of businesses that are thriving on laziness and low expectations.

[Lab Insight]

Scratches of any kind upon being received from the lab are not tolerable - find a new lab. There is tolerance on Rx power etc., but scratching is just absolute crappy quality control.

And when a lab goes into instant defence mode and says it's only you having this issue, they are lying. More reason to switch suppliers.

[Barry Santini]

There is no such thing as an acceptable lab defect. So what that you are the only one to complain about this. The majority of customers are used to mediocre products and services and have become numb. There are a lot of businesses that are thriving on laziness and low expectations.

Seriously??

B

[COMEINPEACE]

I have mentioned this once before
perhaps in the private-ecp-only board
we can start a thread mentioning lab names
and rating their work,price,svc ect
eventually,in the very very near future-it really is going to be 'us indis' against 'them' anyway.....
and yes there are more lab issues now, than ever before

[rbaker]

Yah . . . ya gotta have a good independent lab close by where you can send the really tough jobs that the other labs can't do.

I played that chump game many years ago before I smartened up. I didn't mind doing the impossible Rx's and delivering them same day but having to dicker over the price was too much for my gentle constitution. You bozos wanted stuff like two piece Franklin Bifocals with prism in the near and distance for the same price as a pair of stock Executives. And then you stiffed me on the bill. I sill have a few unpaid accounts from back in the sixties. I still sent those accounts, that are still breathing, a bill in their annual Christmas card. Hope springs eternal.

By the way, no offense intended, the worst offenders were almost always OD's. Maybe back in those days they were all as tight as ticks. Hopefully to those playing the game today things are different.

[jspayneii]

I had that conversation too! Don't you know Paul, we are to just put in the rx, and let them do all the work. Heaven forbid we want to specify the near rx we want for our particular work distance and the regression we want! It just confuses them!

This intrigues me, as it has always been a problem for us as a lab.

Working at the lab, I have seen too many people that send us an order as you describe, and either, something is wrong with the order, like the specified regression doesn't exist, or we make it, and inevitably have to do it again. I am sure you are exceptions to this rule. It isn't that it confuses us... I have felt that the ECP is generally confused.

I draw a correlation to my tech support experiences. I am a techie, and always hate when I get on the phone and someone asks me "have I turned the device off and back on." I usually think to myself, "why would I be calling you if I hadn't already tried that?". After helping some friends, I have experienced the other side, and it usually is the first question I ask when someone calls me for help.

The other thing that has made this harder is the digital office lenses that are now available haven't been as flexible as the older molded designs. My work with the digital vendors has been to enter the traditional Rx, and the system will calculate the optimal lens for the design. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a way to enter the near power and specify the regression.

I would welcome a conversation on this, as we have a similar rule. I'd love to make this a better experience for all parties involved.

[COMEINPEACE]

I think the original issue was.... receiving flawed lenses..that should never have passed inspection
not incomplete parameters(which labs can complete in a heart beat with a quick phonecall..as u know)

[Paul Smith LDO]

Yah . . . ya gotta have a good independent lab close by where you can send the really tough jobs that the other labs can't do.

I played that chump game many years ago before I smartened up. I didn't mind doing the impossible Rx's and delivering them same day but having to dicker over the price was too much for my gentle constitution. You bozos wanted stuff like two piece Franklin Bifocals with prism in the near and distance for the same price as a pair of stock Executives. And then you stiffed me on the bill. I sill have a few unpaid accounts from back in the sixties. I still sent those accounts, that are still breathing, a bill in their annual Christmas card. Hope springs eternal.

By the way, no offense intended, the worst offenders were almost always OD's. Maybe back in those days they were all as tight as ticks. Hopefully to those playing the game today things are different.

Wrong, we have things like priority mail, one, two day service. No one need play the "chump game" as you so articulately put it. I do not need nor do I require a lab down the street from me if they are doing to deliver inferior product with an attitude. Good luck with your collections, no one should have to work for free.

[rbaker]

Wrong, we have things like priority mail, one, two day service. No one need play the "chump game" as you so articulately put it. I do not need nor do I require a lab down the street from me if they are doing to deliver inferior product with an attitude. Good luck with your collections, no one should have to work for free.

No problem Paul. Harold & Louise didn't raise no fool and seeing the writing on the wall I sold the lab in 1971 and moved on to other things.

I hate to use the expression "back in the day" but, back in the day we had surfacing labs on every street corner, even in backwaters like Puckerbrush, Wisconsin and no one went too far out of town for their uncuts. AO and B&L had labs in just about every town with over 200,000 souls and they had delivery boys stopping by two or three times a day. The supply chain seldom left your State. It was great because if you had any problems you could hitch up the buckboard and visit the errant vendor and wrap your fingers around someone's throat. How is this dealing with vendors in the third world hell holes working out for you?

Oh, I did extract my pound of flesh from the dead beat accounts. Ill bet they are still wondering who packed their phoropters with cow manure.

[Flux3r]

i don't accept defective lenses from outside labs. i send them right back and call them and they make it right, or we don't do business with them again. its amazing how quickly they get them back to us made correctly.

[pezfaerie]

What has gotten the old blood boiling is I have had lenses scratched right through the OC ,circled the scratch, and sent them back in to be told that lens is "acceptable". I hope that is not normal?

We literally had this exact thing happen on Monday. Really good lab, extreemly low error/ defect rate and BAM!, all of the sudden within the past 3 weeks tons of coating issues and scratches. Its like they gave their QA inspectors an extended vacation. Never lower your standards because they tell you your the only one complaining, because you're not the only one.

[Jstanfast]

This thread is a breath of fresh air, really. I do like the idea of a sticky thread on the private board with ratings of labs. Might add some pressure to the labs if only a tiny amount.

[Dirk]

Seriously??

B

Unfortunatly yes.

Statistics indicate that between 79 percent and 96 percent of today's customers have become so accustomed to mediocre service that they now accept it as the norm and set their expectations accordingly.

Read the full article:http://www.republican-eagle.com/cont...r-service-dead

[cowboytelemark]

i don't accept defective lenses from outside labs. i send them right back and call them and they make it right, or we don't do business with them again. its amazing how quickly they get them back to us made correctly.

What labs are you using right now? Because whenever I order a lab redo, usually it takes just as long if not longer than the original job. If lab managers are reading this thread, this is my BIGGEST reason for wanting to ditch a lab. Everyone makes mistakes, but when a lab doesn't make a redo of their error top priority, I am NOT happy.

[iD]

I was just curious. Do any of you get along with the lab managers or customer service people at the lab? As in, do you guys know about their lives outside of work?

[BigGuy]

After 40 years in the business I have several friends at local labs. That being said we all understand that business is business and I'll send back any lens that doesn't pass my inspection, friend at the lab or not. I even completely stopped sending work to a lab owned by a friend years ago when the quality went south.

Also was told a while back by a lab we deal with that we reject more lenses than any other account they have. Talked to a few other local opticians at a continuing ed meeting a few weeks later and they had been told the same thing by the same lab!

[Jstanfast]

Not going to name names on the public forum, but can't help but think we are all talking about the same lab. I have been given the exact same script from the old lab.

[rbaker]

I was just curious. Do any of you get along with the lab managers or customer service people at the lab? As in, do you guys know about their lives outside of work?

Well, here we go again, but, back in the day when there were a pant load of local labs (AO and B&L and many others) it was not uncommon for most of the eye glass sellers, OD's and Opticians, to get together at a local gin mill and toss a few back usually at the courtesy of the lab managers. A great time was had by all, I think. I can recall calling the Branch Manager of our local AO lab on a Saturday afternoon in desperate need of a Stadium frame. He opened the office, pulled the frame and delivered it to our office.

As far as having any knowledge of their lives outside of the workplace, Hell No! None of my business. It matters not one iota to me if the CSR is diddling the stock boy or if the stock boy is twiddling the lab managers wife. As long as their performance does not suffer. If it does suffer, I am gone.

[rbaker]

If any of you are interested in "quality" from an academic point of view you might want to Google "TQM' where you will find a lot of information.

[iD]

Well, here we go again, but, back in the day when there were a pant load of local labs (AO and B&L and many others) it was not uncommon for most of the eye glass sellers, OD's and Opticians, to get together at a local gin mill and toss a few back usually at the courtesy of the lab managers. A great time was had by all, I think. I can recall calling the Branch Manager of our local AO lab on a Saturday afternoon in desperate need of a Stadium frame. He opened the office, pulled the frame and delivered it to our office.

As far as having any knowledge of their lives outside of the workplace, Hell No! None of my business. It matters not one iota to me if the CSR is diddling the stock boy or if the stock boy is twiddling the lab managers wife. As long as their performance does not suffer. If it does suffer, I am gone.

yuck gin. I know that it shouldn't matter if you know them outside of work because it's a business. However, I found that if you do know them and get involved in their life they might be more lenient* with re-do's past the time limit, expired A/R warranties or other things that aren't usually done. That's my two cents.

[optical24/7]

"I do 1/4M with you annually, do you really want to argue over a pair of FT's?" This was all I had to tell my lab, and only once.