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Thread: Interesting news from ABO/NCLE

  1. #1
    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Interesting news from ABO/NCLE

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    Paul:cheers:

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    I am pleased to hear this news. There seemed to be an awful lot of trouble with NCSORB exam. I hope this one is an improvement.

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    I am pleased to hear this news. There seemed to be an awful lot of trouble with NCSORB exam. I hope this one is an improvement.
    Warren, I have heard that as well but most of the time it from people who have no direct contact with the exam. In speaking with Board representatives from the states that currently use the test, I am told the NCSORB exam is wonderful. It's a tough test but As long as you are prepared and it is more objective than a face to face practical. I'll be interested in seeing ABOs exam and compair the two.
    Last edited by ziggy; 05-29-2015 at 09:38 AM.
    Paul:cheers:

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    Paul......I have seen the test in an earlier form, and it was simplistic. What the problem appears to be is in the technology, and I am told much they test on is not supported standards. Tennessee has just completed a study on the exam, and from my cursory overview of the report, the test is problematic.

    Warren

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    I'd love to see the report. Here in Ohio we are going to implement a practical, finally, I would love all the information I can get. The latest version that I’ve seen (January 2015) was anything but "simplistic", but like I said, I would love all the information I can get. If you can forward the info to me it would be appreciated.
    Paul:cheers:

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    Send me an email.

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    Send me an email.
    paulking3579@gmail.com thanks
    Last edited by ziggy; 05-29-2015 at 03:00 PM.
    Paul:cheers:

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    Send me an email.
    Warren, I did not recievean email from you on the report. Did you get a chance to send it?
    Paul:cheers:

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Thanks Doc
    Paul:cheers:

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    Hi Paul.

    NCSORB was presented with 80 questions from the Tennessee Board of Dispensing Opticians Task Force concerning the National Opticians Practical Examination to which we responded in person at their April Board meeting. The report Warren referenced does not include our responses to the questions but I will be happy to email my talking points and responses to you if you wish. Also you can visit the TN Board website and watch the recorded video of the meeting by going to the April minutes section and clicking the link.

    I will be happy to answer any questions I am able to in a public forum about the exam as long as they do not compromise exam security. NCSORB aggressively protects exam security because this is a Licensing examination and not a certification examination. That being said, I do understand why many people listen to rumors because we have not done a very good job of getting our story out to the optical community. That is changing and I will be happy to begin that process today.

    Robert Flippin

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Robert, it’s good to hear from you and thank you for your testimony. I will review it carefully. I will contact you by e-mail if I have questions.
    Paul:cheers:

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    Thank you Paul. I can respond here as well if you think the information would benefit Opticians. Please feel free to share the testimony because it is public information and may help others decide.

    Robert

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flippin Retail View Post
    Thank you Paul. I can respond here as well if you think the information would benefit Opticians. Please feel free to share the testimony because it is public information and may help others decide.

    Robert
    Do you have a link to the recorded video? I have looked on the TN web site with no luck. Also is there a link to NCSORB so someone could get information on the test? Thanks in advance for the information.
    Paul:cheers:

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter SharonB's Avatar
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    Would it not be more appropriate to move this topic to a private forum? I think that many exam takers will read this conversation, and then have some legal recourse when it comes to protesting their exam results, regardless of the state or venue.
    Lost and confused in an optical wonderland!

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    Hi Sharon.

    We could move the topic to a private forum but the information that has been shared is in the public domain already. I was just providing the balance to the TN report that Warren posted because it is only fair that everyone understand NCSORB responded to the study as requested by TN in an open forum. Our exam is fair, unbiased, highly defensible and accurately measures the minimum competency of an Optician.

    Perhaps we could start over with a new thread but I do think it is important for Opticians to be able to ask questions about the National Practical Examination to clear up many of the myths that are floating throughout the industry.

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    Having just watched the recording of the Tennessee board meeting, I am compelled to wonder why the Board would appoint the previous exam administrator to review the newly chosen exam. Perhaps they could have found someone with more neutrality ?

    In his own disclaimer, Mr. Ferguson informs us that he is the testing vendor/ owner of the prior Tennessee Practical Examination. One might surmise that he stands to benefit from reviewing the exam of his competitor and attempting to find it lacking.

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    Hi Allgood.

    Mr. Ferguson offered a full disclosure of his relationship with the TN Board as you noted at the beginning of the meeting. While I can not speak to the reasons of the Tennessee Board, I can tell you that NCSORB was happy to answer all questions concerning the examination especially those generated by someone with the years of experience that Mr. Ferguson has in the field.

    Until one sees the level of sophistication of our equipment and model simulations it is hard to imagine how the NCSORB exam could compare with a hands on live practical. But once an Opticianry Regulatory Board has the chance to compare our examination, results, and defensibility along with a pathway to portability of an Opticians license between states this exam is the only one that makes sense. Our Opticians in Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky and Tennessee are now sharing this exam with several other states taking a closer look or going through the regulatory process to adopt.

    Education bar and portability. Now that is a win for all Opticians.

    Robert

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    OptiGeek Wes's Avatar
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    Robert, have you had a panel of SMEs take the exam to see how they performed?

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    Hi Wes.

    NCSORB has used many subject matter experts from the inception of this exam about 14 years ago to as recently as two weekends ago. It is important to also note that many different SME's from across the country have been used for validation and development purposes and not just a single group of the same people. The results have been fantastic and the information gathered invaluable.

    A previous version of this exam was also beta tested before going live at an Opticians Association of Virginia convention where Licensed Opticians were tested and the results verified. From the very beginning NCSORB has enlisted the help of SME's, examination development experts, Psychometricians, multi-media experts and a computer simulation expert to create a never before seen Opticians Practical Licensing examination. This exam is non-biased, fair, defensible and begins the process toward an easier pathway for portability of the Optician License.

    Hope this helps and thank you for all you continue to do for Opticianry.

    Robert

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    So long as the exam Opticians are required to pass is fully supported and documented I support it. Until this is done, and I read this report and watched the video, I cannot. I do not see that the questions have been answered. I look forward to the ABO/NCLE exam, and reviewing that one as well.

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    Warren,

    I am not sure if I completely understand what you are trying to say in the first sentence but I will be happy to answer questions you may have from the report and provide you with testimony if that would be of help.

    The examination results speak for themselves in the states that are using the NCSORB examination and I can tell you that the feedback from the Boards has been overwhelmingly positive.

    Robert

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    Quite frankly, Robert, and I appreciate the dialogue, but the report as accepted by the board leaves a great deal to be concerned about. I continue to hear significant complaints from those around the country who have taken the exam, and in my reading of the report, it appears there are significant questions regarding standards, etc. not fully supported. I am not surprised to hear the boards that have adopted it support it......if I had made that decision I would as well. I also know that the NCSORB is a good organization, filled with good people who want to do good things, but at this point, I do not think this is the one, and there is a lot of misinformation floating around. Some here have questioned Roy's conflict of interest, and they are right to do so, but there was another name on the report as well. Dr. Ferguson is a well-known researcher and presented facts, and noted in his report and on the video his conflict. The board in Tn appointed him to that position, and in the world of academia, pointing out those limitations is not only expected, but gives the reader of the document a more solid understanding. They can take the information as presented or not. You are on the NCSORB side, and obviously do not. Know that my comments are not at all personal. I hold you and others on NCSORB in high regard, I just want to get this issues behind us. I don't care who does the exam.....but when I continue to hear major complaints across the country, it does raise questions. You can call me if you like, 910-818-1146, and I am always willing to listen to reason. I have no dog in the fight, however, and want to make that known. Dr. Ferguson and I are close friends, but those who know me understand that I am supporting the average Optician out here. Call if you like.

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    Hi Warren.

    Thank you for the dialog and I do not at all take any of this personally. To paraphrase Mark Twain, misinformation can travel half way around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. So it is in that spirit that I am just trying to put the shoes on the truth and address the rumors and misinformation regarding this exam.

    The NCSORB exam was developed over a ten year period based upon an extensive job task analysis survey, consultation with other state regulatory boards, SME's, Psycometricians, Examination development experts and many others. All of the tasks required, questions asked and standards come from the work of those professionals and are also based upon standard texts used in teaching Opticianry. This is first and foremost a licensing examination so we can not just create standard practices from whole cloth.

    Secondly, and with all due respect to Mr. Ferguson, his report should be more of a concern to those offering a hands on practical exam. Many of the issues raised in the report such as those regarding the accuracy of a pupilometer or ANSI standards are not applicable to a computer simulated examination or are not tested for in the NCSORB examination. Perhaps the best way to illustrate that point is to use an absurd analogy to explain, no offense intended. Q- Best practices indicate that when riding a bicycle one should use the bike lane provided and stay within those boundaries so why were you riding outside of the boundaries? A- I am driving a car not riding a bicycle.

    The NCSORB exam does not use a manufactured piece of equipment rather simulated 100% accurate working models. Any questions regarding standards of equipment or tolerances of materials do not apply nor do ANSI standards for that matter.

    In creating this exam to protect the health safety and welfare of the public licensing states have also helped Opticians by providing an easier pathway to portability
    Last edited by Flippin Retail; 06-10-2015 at 08:17 AM. Reason: post incomplete bad save

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    To finish the post and my apologies for being incomplete this morning. (customers)

    A pathway to portability of license is of great benefit to all Opticians.

    Warren you are certainly entitled to you opinion of this or any exam for that matter but I hope that opinion will be based on first hand knowledge from taking the exam and not on rumors or complaints from people who did not pass the exam and may shift blame. I respect and thank you for helping others and Opticianry and will again be happy to answer any specific question you have.

    Robert

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