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Thread: My State Will Be Delicensed, Is Yours Next?

  1. #76
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Wouldn't you agree?
    Good point. I guess it's a "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater" thing. (The current uneven standards of licensure is the baby, the insufficiency is the bathwater.)

  2. #77
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    More important than ever to resurrect that "guild optician" thing as a brand, IMO. A license is a guarantee of quality, but if licenses disappear, then you can have a non-governmental seal of approval from the guild.
    Plus it sounds cool.
    The original Guild went to Hell in a hand basket back in the sixties when it began to accept the membership by firms that employed or had ownership by OD's or MD's. Prior to that time it was not considered an ethical arrangement. No longer could a Guild Member uniquely assure their client base that there was no collusion with a prescriber. In addition a Guild Optician guaranteed the customer of a high standard of knowledge as it was very difficult to achieve Guild membership. It was, indeed, a proud statement to be known as a Guild Optician.

    That being the case, you will never see the return of the only organization that has ever held Opticianry to such high standards. Boards of registrations and State laws and all the Junior Colleges can never meet this level of excellence. Those days are gone but a few of us still remember.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    In addition a Guild Optician guaranteed the customer of a high standard of knowledge as it was very difficult to achieve Guild membership. It was, indeed, a proud statement to be known as a Guild Optician.
    As a youngster in comparison to some of you guys, what was the high standard of knowledge, exactly? Was it benchwork and fitting/adjustment skills or was it optical mathematics or both?

  4. #79
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Both, and then a whole lot more. It usually took a few years to become journeyman and maybe another five to ten to be considered a Master. I'm sure Chris can provide some input on the European model. The eye care business has changed so much the in the ensuing years that it is almost unrecognizable to us "old timers" therefore difficult to answer your question in a post.

  5. #80
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Whatever it was, it can still be re-implemented for today's needs.

    "Master Guild Optician". Sounds like something from StarWars or J.R.R. Tolkein. It would be huge.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    Both, and then a whole lot more. It usually took a few years to become journeyman and maybe another five to ten to be considered a Master. I'm sure Chris can provide some input on the European model. The eye care business has changed so much the in the ensuing years that it is almost unrecognizable to us "old timers" therefore difficult to answer your question in a post.
    I was fortunate to start in the 70's, and many of these guys trained me. To Tallboy, they had all those skills, and then some. Back then, even the lab guys were very bright, even though they didn't care for us "new opticians", as we were getting paid more than they did. I'm not sure I would be where I am today without the skill set I learned back then.

  7. #82
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    But would today's public buy into it? opticians aren't the only ones who have changed...

    Not trying to poo poo on the parade. Just thinking logically about the buying habits of the public, and where they place their sense of value in our industry. Is it pretty frames, and fancy stores, or the ability to compete with onliners, or the skill to bend a temple, and edge stock lenses into their frames for the 6th time...

    Looking at the industry as a complete whole in North America - where is the desired value for the public at large? What is it that will continue to drive them into the doors of dispensers for the next 20, 30, 40 years?

  8. #83
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    The Guild had built a reputation for excellence over the years. They strictly enforced quality and educational standards and woe betide anyone who identified his establishment as a Guild store. If a non Guild store identified themselves as a Guild Store or displayed a Guild decal in their window or in advertising the savage Guild lawyers would be on them like white on rice. Most importantly, they used institutional advertising to promote the high standards of their member firms.

    I doubt that the Guild could be revised today as it was back in the day. Imagine trying to reestablishing and enforcing its original membership standards. For example, Guild membership would be denied to any firm that had any pecuniary arrangement with an OD or MD or collocate with them. The prospective member would be subjected to an on site peer evaluation. There are probably not a handful of businesses that would qualify to these stringent membership requirements.

    No Guild, perhaps membership in the Retail Clerks Union is about as good as it is going to get today.
    Last edited by rbaker; 06-04-2015 at 08:25 PM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    But would today's public buy into it? opticians aren't the only ones who have changed...

    Not trying to poo poo on the parade. Just thinking logically about the buying habits of the public, and where they place their sense of value in our industry. Is it pretty frames, and fancy stores, or the ability to compete with onliners, or the skill to bend a temple, and edge stock lenses into their frames for the 6th time...

    Looking at the industry as a complete whole in North America - where is the desired value for the public at large? What is it that will continue to drive them into the doors of dispensers for the next 20, 30, 40 years?
    You are spot on. We have become a disposable society with everything, including eyewear, otherwise we would have no spring hinges from China. We as opticians don't repair, we sell. No nasal cuts, no rivet hinge repairs, no hidden hinge repair, no bridge build ups with acetone and pads, no soldering. I for one have these skills and almost never use them, as I have evolved to the public's expectations, sell new. Sell fashion, not fit.

    The average Joe Q has no idea what an optician is, he's the "guy or girl" at the optical store that SOLD him his glasses. They have no idea if you are licensed, or just came on board from the job at the Gap. Thank you 3rd party vision for pushing the Od's and Omd's to having to hire to the lowest common denominator because or what they get reimbursed from you. The consumer deserves what they get, when they say I want what my insurance covers. This needs no optical skills, other then being able to manage basic computer skills, as insurance will tell you what they can get, and how much to charge.

    But wait, I still believe there is a all be it small percentage of people that still value what they have had for service, fit, and quality and education and knowledge. Ask guys like Barry, Robert, Craig, Johns, George, and many more I'm sure.

    obx out

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    The Senate was busy last week, any news?
    Last edited by OptiStudent; 06-20-2015 at 06:33 PM.

  11. #86
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    The next generation optyician isn't getting enough credit. The old timers didn't have the math skills they claim to have. They had one material glass, very forgiving in comparison to plastics. Blooming a lens was done in a bell jar with a crucible and vacuum with one layer measured by the eye. Cutting lenses was often get it to fit in the frame shape consistency was no where near the level of accuracy it is today.

    This generation is aware of CNC, can program, has a basic math skills that goes beyond basic algebra. With rare exception have I met an old timer that has or kept up with these skills. Even many of the courses in this country still teach pattern edging like it might be coming back. Glass is regarded as the next material coming.

    As a change to stay relevant, learn programming, learn how to make money aka business, learn technology so you understand how a frame and lens is made. With all the talk about education I see more and more knowledge being locked behind paywalls and simple techniques that were once general knowledge industry wide are no longer shared. Equipment vendors are locking down devices, software intermediaries are screening data and deciding who has access.

    The fight is over, and I am reminded of a south park episode where one giant router being unplugged and plugged back in resets the internet. There is a master switch being built. Of course the more I talk the crazier I will sound but that's OK. Licensure will be gone, that's inevitable I have a prediction for a date that makes sense based on industry metrics. The survivors are going to be those with proprietary knowledge in this industry.

    Nuff said good luck to those states still fighting.

  12. #87
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeOptics View Post
    The next generation optyician isn't getting enough credit. The old timers didn't have the math skills they claim to have. They had one material glass, very forgiving in comparison to plastics. Blooming a lens was done in a bell jar with a crucible and vacuum with one layer measured by the eye. Cutting lenses was often get it to fit in the frame shape consistency was no where near the level of accuracy it is today.

    This generation is aware of CNC, can program, has a basic math skills that goes beyond basic algebra. With rare exception have I met an old timer that has or kept up with these skills. Even many of the courses in this country still teach pattern edging like it might be coming back. Glass is regarded as the next material coming.

    As a change to stay relevant, learn programming, learn how to make money aka business, learn technology so you understand how a frame and lens is made. With all the talk about education I see more and more knowledge being locked behind paywalls and simple techniques that were once general knowledge industry wide are no longer shared. Equipment vendors are locking down devices, software intermediaries are screening data and deciding who has access.

    The fight is over, and I am reminded of a south park episode where one giant router being unplugged and plugged back in resets the internet. There is a master switch being built. Of course the more I talk the crazier I will sound but that's OK. Licensure will be gone, that's inevitable I have a prediction for a date that makes sense based on industry metrics. The survivors are going to be those with proprietary knowledge in this industry.

    Nuff said good luck to those states still fighting.
    Anyone with some of the skills you mentioned, CNC or CAD/CAM, computer programming or business administration/management left the field years ago. There are very few opportunities for educated and skilled people in the opticians field.

  13. #88
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    Anyone with some of the skills you mentioned, CNC or CAD/CAM, computer programming or business administration/management left the field years ago. There are very few opportunities for educated and skilled people in the opticians field.
    What if they are being scared away by the old guard. Years of resistance to education has left the older optician weak and vulnerable. Simple skills perfected doesnt make a great optician, IMO.
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    Warren, I agree with you. The leadership is certainly to blame. The Empress has sent away a number of great Opticians (including myself) due to her inclusive mentality and holier then thou attitude. Someone with stroke needs to stand up to her and send her *** on her way. I love this state. I was born and raised here, but if she is involved in ANY way, I cannot recommend North Carolina as a healthy place to practice Opticianry. This state needs fresh faces, and fresh ideas. Not a State Board that is composed of people hand selected by the Empress and treated to steak dinners at Ruth Chris' for non-existent leadership. Have you seen the "spread sheet" she sent out with an explanation of what Board money was used for? My 2nd grader could do a better job. She is supposed to be a seasoned administrator? Please. I urge anyone that reads this and holds a North Carolina license to DEMAND CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP. Take up this cause. Step out of your comfort zone and LEAD! Warren has for years, but he needs your help!

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    From the musical "Jekyll and Hyde":

    "They're not the established authority. Only the established prejudice."

    B
    Last edited by Barry Santini; 06-22-2015 at 12:41 PM.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil-Doc View Post
    Warren, I agree with you. The leadership is certainly to blame. The Empress has sent away a number of great Opticians (including myself) due to her inclusive mentality and holier then thou attitude. Someone with stroke needs to stand up to her and send her *** on her way. I love this state. I was born and raised here, but if she is involved in ANY way, I cannot recommend North Carolina as a healthy place to practice Opticianry. This state needs fresh faces, and fresh ideas. Not a State Board that is composed of people hand selected by the Empress and treated to steak dinners at Ruth Chris' for non-existent leadership. Have you seen the "spread sheet" she sent out with an explanation of what Board money was used for? My 2nd grader could do a better job. She is supposed to be a seasoned administrator? Please. I urge anyone that reads this and holds a North Carolina license to DEMAND CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP. Take up this cause. Step out of your comfort zone and LEAD! Warren has for years, but he needs your help!
    I was not referring to any individual, but many who have failed to effectively lead. Add it is not just a NC problem, but one that is national, as is clear from reading this thread. Unileann and others provided excellent insights.......we are disjointed and need a similar background across all jurisdictions. until that happens we are dead in the water.

  17. #92
    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    we are disjointed and need a similar background across all jurisdictions. until that happens we are dead in the water.
    Doc when you decide to run for office let me know, I'll move to NC just to vote for you! You are now and have been (at least for the last 25 years that I know of) spot on with your assessment of the state of opticianry in this country. Of course getting the folks that can change things to listen to you is about like getting my 13 year old to listen to me. Keep preaching the word.
    Paul:cheers:

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    Thanks, Paul. It means a lot. Sometimes I feel as if I am on an island, but I began my career as an Optician and see the potential. I just will not give up on these folks.

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    My dad use to say "the truth will stand when all else around you falls". Just keep speaking the truth and get you a protégé, sooner or later you will want to retire!
    Paul:cheers:

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    Speculation, no data provided. Second thought is to delete this reply but cannot find the delete button.
    Last edited by Emmet Ropia; 11-06-2017 at 05:11 PM.

  21. #96
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    Redhot Jumper Second thought is to delete this reply but cannot find the delete button.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmet Ropia View Post

    Speculation, no data providedd. Second thought is to delete this reply but cannot find the delete button.

    Funny how this few years old thread has been revived.

    Specially at a time when the alarm clock has gone off with the announcement of the Essilor Lux merger.

    The operate the largest batch of online opticals and are enlarging continuously on that side by acquisitions.
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    Are the salaries for Opticians higher in licensed states, or are they about same as unlicensed states? Has the compensation for Opticians increased significantly in the last 10 years? If not why not? These are questions we need to ask ourselves. I believe we would all benefit from this discussion.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbender View Post
    Are the salaries for Opticians higher in licensed states, or are they about same as unlicensed states? Has the compensation for Opticians increased significantly in the last 10 years? If not why not? These are questions we need to ask ourselves. I believe we would all benefit from this discussion.
    Licensed opticians in my company are paid more, but only if their home location is in a licensed state.

    Unionized labs generally pay more, but even that varies on the representing unions and contracts.

    Significant salary increases for opticians? Dream on. As long as corporations own big box retailers and wholesale labs, wages will stay low. Why pay for experience when machines can do the work? Hire an inexperienced newbie off the street at rock bottom wages and teach them to push buttons. Better yet, keep them just below full time status to maximize profits. Known as the Walmart effect.

    As for compensation, unfortunately, this varies from one employer to the next, just like any other industry. Why or why not is a question to ask the CFOs, lab or dispensary owners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Whatever it was, it can still be re-implemented for today's needs.

    "Master Guild Optician". Sounds like something from StarWars or J.R.R. Tolkein. It would be huge.
    The best.

  25. #100
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    Redhot Jumper There are some big changes ahead for the optical retail industry....................

    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post

    Significant salary increases for opticians? Dream on. As long as corporations own big box retailers and wholesale labs, wages will stay low. Why pay for experience when machines can do the work? Hire an inexperienced newbie off the street at rock bottom wages and teach them to push buttons.

    ..................specially in a few month from now, when the big merger will be approved in Europe. That will make it the largest owner of a big part of all important online opticals worldwide, including 5,000 already existing retail outlets that can serve as their service centers.

    There are some big changes ahead for the optical retail industry.
    Chris Ryser
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