My Dad Was An Optician--- by law?

[JR]

Greetings,

My Dad was a practicing Optician in NY State. He also trained a LOT of other opticians and helped them get licensed, if they wished to do so. Recently I was told it was not legal!

Here is my question: Back in the 50s it was common policy to hire man and teach them to be an Optician by working. They did NOT need any formal education, they just needed to go for licensing exam if they chose to get a license, if I recall correctly.

I was pretty young then. I do not recall them ever needing a PERMIT from the Board to register them as a Trainee or Student License, whatever it is called now. They were just able to work (measuring and dispensing and lab) under a licensed Optician (which My dad was) or even an optometrist, until they chose to become licensed. Also they did not ever have to have a license as long as they were supervised, if I recall. Now this going back quite a bit. Today this is NOT so.

Is anyone here old enough here to be able to verify that optician trainees were allowed to work lab, measuring and dispensing without any special license Permit as long as they were under a licensed Optician or Optometrist? (I have been around long enough to know it was so in practice and is still done).

Thank,
JR

[wmcdonald]

Apprenticeship is still legal, unfortunately, but does require registering with the board and following specific guidelines. If memory serves, you could go to a 2-3 year program in those days, and just a few years prior to that is was 6 months to be an OD. Has that changed?

[JR]

Apprenticeship is still legal, unfortunately, but does require registering with the board and following specific guidelines. If memory serves, you could go to a 2-3 year program in those days, and just a few years prior to that is was 6 months to be an OD. Has that changed?

Thanks for the humor and reply but it does not clearly answer my question. BTW, I have been ODD for a long time and it took no study at all! :

Back in the 60s (?) I recall that you could be an apprentice optician just as applied to any "highly skilled artisan". It was perhaps 2 - 3 years of experience required but I don't recall any trainees permits. You did need to read books and take and exam for a license (if you wanted one) as that part was not something you learned at work. We certainly hired lots of guys at Sterling Optical and never had them do any applying for training permits (though they never seemed ambitious enough to want their own license). It also did not appear that there was any need for them to get a license if they did not want to manage their own store in the future!

However, my question was and is did you have to have a Permit from a government agency or board to work under someone else's license back then? Did Sterling break the law? Not that I want to attack them. They certainly helped pay my bills! I also learned surfacing in my Dad's lab in Brooklyn, without a permit required. I did benchwork at several optical stores and never was required to have any permit as long as the Licensed Optician was there (I know benchwork is different). However my question remains. Was it legal, years ago, Like somewhere in the 60s, for an optician to train a guy off the street without a "special trainee permit" and help him develop a profession that could feed his family?

Was that legal? That is my question and thanks for your reply. Hopefully someone older knows more Sadly, My dad no longer can answer questions.

JR

[MikeAurelius]

Does it matter anymore?

[rbaker]

I do believe that prior to the seventies most states did not require any form of registration with anyone to apprentice, no permit was required by either party. I sat for the NY State Boards in 1969 and as I recall the written, oral and practical exam was a mother.

[JR]

Does it matter anymore?

It is of strong interest to me!
JR

[JR]

I do believe that most states did not require any form of registration with anyone to apprentice, no permit was required by either party. I sat for the NY State Boards in 1969 and as I recall the written, oral and practical exam was a mother.

That is my impression but I am being told otherwise. My dad also got a license in fla, which was not a mother but a *****! One of the questions was something like "If a client has Anopsia, he would best be given: a) Kryptok, b) Flatop c) K9 " Cute huh?

So perhaps my question perhaps needs to be better stated: "In he past, Could you legally work as an optician trainee without any special permit in NY State? if So when did that law change?"

JR

[obxeyeguy]

I started in 1975 in NY. My first job had an employee, that was "registered" under the apprenticeship program, 2 or 3 years as I recall. At that time, I also recall that you could only do this so many times without passing the boards, or find a new job. This Lady, had no intention of taking the boards, just said she would move, or find a new career.

And yes, it was still a mother in '75.

[JR]

I started in 1975 in NY. My first job had an employee, that was "registered" under the apprenticeship program, 2 or 3 years as I recall. At that time, I also recall that you could only do this so many times without passing the boards, or find a new job. This Lady, had no intention of taking the boards, just said she would move, or find a new career.

And yes, it was still a mother in '75.

So that is interesting! At least I now know first hand that in 1975, that was the law. I am just looking to find out when that became the law because I worked for Sterling in '72 and they may have just ignored the law back then. Before that when I worked for the Guild optician in brooklyn, he did the same thing in 69'. That makes me think it was not so then as he seemed like a straight shooter.

JR

[harry a saake]

I worked in ny in the 70,s as an apprentice, and you did have to get the apprentice license.

more interesting which was nj in the mid to late 60,s had license to grind lenses, I remember I was with B@L and they transferred me over to east orange,nj, and as soon as I walked IN THE DOOR, THAT WAS THE FIRST QUESTION, I was sent back to newburgh, ny

[JR]

I worked in ny in the 70,s as an apprentice, and you did have to get the apprentice license.

more interesting which was nj in the mid to late 60,s had license to grind lenses, I remember I was with B@L and they transferred me over to east orange,nj, and as soon as I walked IN THE DOOR, THAT WAS THE FIRST QUESTION, I was sent back to newburgh, ny

That interesting! I did not believe I need a licence in NY in '69 to do surfacing, at least I believe that was what we were told , though I was hired to maintain the lab machines really.

Did You need a licence in the mid 60s to do lens surfacing for B &L? Wasn't that defined as an optician's job too?
JR

.

[ml43]

That interesting! I did not believe I need a licence in NY in '69 to do surfacing, at least I believe that was what we were told , though I was hired to maintain the lab machines really.

Did You need a licence in the mid 60s to do lens surfacing for B &L? Wasn't that defined as an optician's job too?
JR

.

I don't know of a single state that requires lab technicians that don't deal directly with patients to be registered/licensed.

It's the reason many lab techs are ABO/ABO-AC certified, but not state licensed.

[braheem24]

Your question is


"What year did NY adopt the registered apprentice prerequisite for opticianary?"


Am I close?


...and if the question is that simple, I would just call the board and ask them exactly that without the "rest of the story".

[SharonB]

Prior to 1969 apprentices in NY only needed to have their preceptor sign off on the number of hours they worked/trained in order to gain entry to the licensing exam. By 1970 (when I started) permits were required. There were not then, nor now, trainee permits for lab workers doing surfacing and finishing. However - New Jersey does require some formal education for their lab people. This is usually available at one of the opticianry programs in NJ. It is a shortened version of the full program.
For OBX Guy, and Harry A Saake, I apprenticed in Newburgh, and made frequent lab runs to B&L and Shatz Optical. Maybe our paths crossed many years ago?

[obxeyeguy]

For OBX Guy, and Harry A Saake, I apprenticed in Newburgh, and made frequent lab runs to B&L and Shatz Optical. Maybe our paths crossed many years ago?

I believe we met in Albany one year, doing State board practicals.

[SharonB]

Very well could be! I am now part of Capitol Hill Testing, which designs and administers the NYS practical. PM me and we can chat! I have been doing the Boards in one capacity or another since 1979.

[JR]

Prior to 1969 apprentices in NY only needed to have their preceptor sign off on the number of hours they worked/trained in order to gain entry to the licensing exam. By 1970 (when I started) permits were required.

Thanks this is the closest I have gotten to answering my question! Much appreciated.
JR

[JR]

Your question is
if the question is that simple, I would just call the board and ask them exactly that without the "rest of the story".

OK....... I tired to find a number or internet listing of who to call..... not so simple. Do you know of a link/url to whom to contact?
thanks
JR

[Tallboy]

OK....... I tired to find a number or internet listing of who to call..... not so simple. Do you know of a link/url to whom to contact?
thanks
JR

http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/od/odcontact.htm

[SharonB]

http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/od/odcontact.htm

The person to contact is Seth Rockmuller, executive secretary of the board. He is not an optician (rather, a lawyer). I can almost guarantee that he will not be able to locate the historical documents regarding policies during the 1960s. On the Ophthalmic Dispensing site that you found
www.op.nysed.gov/prof/od/odcontact.htm,there should be an e-mail contact for him.

[SharonB]

Even better: Seth Rockmuller, Executive Secretary Email: odbd@nysed.gov, Phone: 518-474-3817, ext. 180, Fax: 518-402-5944

[JR]

Even better: Seth Rockmuller, Executive Secretary Email: odbd@nysed.gov, Phone: 518-474-3817, ext. 180, Fax: 518-402-5944

Thanks for taking the time to find this information for me.
JR

[Uncle Fester]

You've got me scratching my head over this. There's a saying among lawyers to never ask a question you don't know the answer too. If you want to be told you are not legally licensed fine. But why potentially throw others under the bus? As an OD now I can't help but wonder what's your motivation?

Why not just let sleeping dogs lie?

[BigGuy]

I apprenticed in Newburgh, and made frequent lab runs to B&L and Shatz Optical.

Shatz Optical! Haven't heard that name in years. Marv Shatz was on of the really great guys in optical. A true gentleman.