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Thread: How long does it take to surface a pair of lenses?

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    How long does it take to surface a pair of lenses?

    I am wondering how long does it realy take to surface a pair of plastic, HI, Poly and glass lenses.
    I mean the actual time needed to get from semifinished to finished product.

    Thanks

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    Bad address email on file Rich R's Avatar
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    Depends some on what type of equipment, but I'd say cr-39 blocking with wax about 15 mins.
    5 mins blocking time, 2 mins generating, 2 mins fining and 4 mins polishing. plus a couple mins marking, taping and changing pads.
    hi index add a couple mins for coating, and poly add about 6 mins more for extra fining and polishing and coating.
    Rich R

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    RETIRED JRS's Avatar
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    30 minutes if wax blocking is used
    45 minutes using alloy blocking
    J. R. Smith


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    I always considered alloy to be much faster than wax. I wasn't exactly happy when the lab I was working in made the move to wax.

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    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    Lenny,

    You are going to see a lot of different times, a lot of things come into play, like volume and the layout of the lab and how many people are in the lab, etc., etc..
    Same applies to the type of equipment.. someone running a cut to polish system is quicker than running a three pad system and on and on.. if you was sitting down with one pair of lens entering it into the computer to get the ticket..about 30 seconds to getting it in and printed.. snag up that ticket go to layout another 15 or so seconds a lens...blocking.. depending on wax or alloy, alloy is quicker than wax..and if you used chilled blocks and the correct heat 118 or 119 in the pot and same to 120 in the stem you can go to the generator directly...blocking..in alloy say another 30 seconds... generating.. around a couple of minutes..cutting and checking...now if you are using wax system with some generators, if they are all networked the generator will not let you do it right away, unless you over ride the system ... from there it's off to the cylinder machine... plastic and high index and poly are all close to about the same time around 7 minutes total...glass add a few minutes to that...
    What are we up to.. about 12 minutes of actual physical work time ? .. than it's off to deblocking and verification ..another minute or two...
    Where you run into time problems is that you can not run a wholesale lab "one" job at a time and make money, volume is the name of the game and setting up a compatible work load where less walking and mixing is involved...and you really need to add in the order time and pulling stock and than the time it gets to get from station to station and how much volume ...
    all in all from a faxed in order to pulling the stock, going through the full process, if I did it personally and every machine was sitting empty till I used it around 15 to 20 minutes for all of them but glass.. add about 15 minutes to that one to allow for longer cylinder time and generating and than you have to harden the glass..
    HOPEFULLY if you are wholesale none of your machines are sitting empty and your job gets mixed into a volume of jobs :-) ..so it goes up to around the 45 minutes to an hour range or higher..sounds slower but you have to figure once the system is loaded down you are technically getting a finished pair off every 4 minutes (time it is on polish)
    Easy..huh? ...:-)

    Jeff "planning is the key to wholesale" Trail

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    Bad address email on file John R's Avatar
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    Wave Re: How long does it take to surface a pair of lenses?

    LENNY said:
    I am wondering how long does it realy take to surface a pair of glass lenses.
    I mean the actual time needed to get from semifinished to finished product.

    Thanks
    Laying off 2 mins
    Finding lenses 5 min....
    Marking 30 secs
    taping 30 secs
    blocking 1 min
    Generating 2 min
    Smooth 3 mins
    polish 6 min
    Deblocking 1 min
    Final checking 2 min....
    You will have to add in traveling time and thinking time as well.
    Now dont think that 30 mins after ordering your lenses that you can ring up to find out if they are ready because they wont be....
    These time's are just how long each process takes, you have to remember that we never ever do one pair at a time....

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    Thinking!?

    What thinking?
    :bbg:

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    Bad address email on file John R's Avatar
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    LENNY said:
    Thinking!?

    What thinking?
    :bbg:
    It's always best to engage brain before starting to do anything....
    Now that requires a bit of thought.

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    RETIRED JRS's Avatar
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    Jeff, you go directly from blocking to generating?
    J. R. Smith


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    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    JRS said:
    Jeff, you go directly from blocking to generating?
    Do I? Nope, you know how it is in wholesale once you load the system nothing gets moved directly from one part to another, except in "stacks".. on average it probably sits around 20 minutes or so.. but I could move it along quicker if I had to..I keep all my blocks chilled and if I am doing some special job where I'm jumping the line, and yes I still run stuff MYSELF :-) ..I will use an over sized block to push and aberration into the outer area to be cut off.. and NOT any transitions or PAL's or high index... not exactly the "right" way but when an Od is standing in your office waiting.wellll..:-) That is usually the problem I find when going into a lab as a consultant, they are running the blocker way to high and jumping in and surfacing the lens before it has had time to dissipate the heat at all and you have some nice waves :-)...
    JR, got a question for you :-) Is it me or since we have moved the labs into more high grade and technically advanced "lab rats" have gotten worse understanding the basic problems (cause and effect) ..you deal with a wider amount of labs than I do, just wondered how it seems to you ?
    If I hear one more time, "well I did it exactly like the ticket said, I don't know why it came out this way" I'm going to commit suicide by throwing myself on to my generator wheel!! :-)

    Jeff"lab rat, and wear that badge proudly(most of the time)" Trail :-)

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    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    Jeff said I keep all my blocks chilled
    We've had some problems with deblocking on an SGX. Usually near the last few cuts. We have been keeping our blocks warm on top of the blocker. Is keeping them cool a better way or did I just interpret your post incorrectly?

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    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    edKENdance said:
    We've had some problems with deblocking on an SGX. Usually near the last few cuts. We have been keeping our blocks warm on top of the blocker. Is keeping them cool a better way or did I just interpret your post incorrectly?

    An SGX?..hmm.. It is not always the blocker there.. is it in all materials or certain materials like poly :-) When you replaced the blades last? ...
    Could be in the removal where you are having the problem or if you are using a step one system your wax has not been contaminated has it?
    I would lean more towards the generator as being the problem over your blocker..Mike Fretto (who posts here) had the SAME exact problem you are having if my memory serves me correctly, E-M him and see what he ended up doing to correct the problem..
    BTW a chilled block is always better than a warm block :-).. I use disposables mostly and run three 99 alloy blockers, not a big fan of the wax blockers (yes, I have used them and did have one).. I have all my blocks set up in trays by base curve and keep them in two table top refrigerators.. than we have a stack to block pull out the trays and start blocking..having a cooled block does help with heat distortion and it does mean you can speed up the time it can go to the generator.. the block helps dissipate some of the heat quicker and if you have the blocker calibrated correctly (which seems to be a miracle these days) it is useful..
    In any lab you have four enemies.. heat, heat and heat the fourth is calibration :-)

    Jeff "stick me with a pin, I probably bleed resin" Trail :-)

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    Jeff "stick me with a pin, I probably bleed resin" Trail :-)


    Do you think we can get some inexpensive Trivex out of you!?
    Or the best you can do is CR-39?:idea:

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    OptiBoard Professional OptiBoard Silver Supporter RT's Avatar
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    In many cases, deblocking is caused by too aggressive cribbing of lenses in the SGX. Try backing off a little on your cribbing parameters. From a safety margin standpoint, cribbing is far more damaging to the bond between lens and block than the actual surfacing. The torque in cribbing, particularly on larger diameters, is the culprit.
    RT

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    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    In response to the last post. We actually don't crib at all. We've even stopped putting safety bevels on lenses and also increased out lens blank diameter by 2 mm so the blade wont contact so abruptly. Poly is the only material that we have a problem with. The plan now is to purchase surface saver tape with more adhesive properties. Fingers crossed.

    It is a wax blocker by the way.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
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    Deblocks on SGX

    Have you gone in and taken a look at your lens parameters?

    Last time we were having issues with deblocks, it turned out that our final depth of cut was too low. Once it upped it to our Max DOC, we have had only a couple of them deblock compared to previous.

    Not sure how or why the paramters were changed, but sometimes they get changed (Software upgrades, "helpful" techs, or working on other issues)

    Now I have a checklist I use at work to investigate deblocks. Yes, I check wax temps, the block temps, are people measuring the blanks (occasionally get a few that aren't the normal measurements), DOC, Final DOC, Feed Rate and a few other things that I am not remembering right off the top of my head. Sorry, its been a long day...

    What blade are you using?

    Cassandra

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    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    Hey Cassandra we are using an 11 flute blade. Had another de-block today on poly near the last cut. Never had a chanve to look into the DOC settings.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
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    Yeah, we run an 11 flute as well. At least will till about the second week in Jan when they are making me switch to the 9.

    I really recommend looking into the DOC settings. We were having so many issues with deblocks mainly on plus lenses on the last or second to the last cut. Tried adjusting crib settings (and we normally don't crib) was adjusting the blank ET and lens Dia. Once we really started to watch what was happening, the DOC settings really came clear. The edge of the poly lens was thin enough to have a lot of flex to it, and when the blade was coming into it to take a shallow cut, the ragged edge of the lens was getting caught in the blade and being literally ripped off the block. (really annoying when the gaurd is missing from the bottom so all of the deblock lenses were getting sucked into your vacuum hose...grr) I believe we adjusted our FDOC to a 5 from a 3 and it was magic!

    Cassandra
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

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    Independent Problem Optiholic edKENdance's Avatar
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    Siily question, how can I adjust the DOC. I guess this is something that you dont set up per job. Which utility do I have to go through?

    Thanks

    ps: does it slow your production down?
    Last edited by edKENdance; 12-20-2002 at 11:35 PM.

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    Bad address email on file Rich R's Avatar
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    #3 Configuration Menu
    Lens Material
    Poly
    Check Final DOC #24
    Make it same as Max DOC #2
    Probably about 3.00
    I believe it is F2 to save changes
    Will ask for menu #
    enter in 3.1 and enter

    Rich R

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
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    Well Rich got you through checking and changing...Glad he had that handy cause I would have had to look at the generator to look it up myself and I actually have a weekend off!! ( I love my new boss!)

    As far as production time, no it hasn't slowed us down at all. It seems to cut just as fast, maybe even a bit faster..and we aren't having to take the extra time to stop the generator, get the lens reset the job, reblock the lens... etc... The key as Rich pointed out was to set your Final DOC the same as your max DOC.

    Cassandra
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

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    I had several in depth conversations with Mike Fretto about the deblocking problem with poly. He did apply tape to the lenses, and got good results. I believe he decided to forgo purchasing a tape applicator and now uses Vision Ease poly. Apparently their scratch coating has better adhesion.

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Trail View Post
    JR, got a question for you :-) Is it me or since we have moved the labs into more high grade and technically advanced "lab rats" have gotten worse understanding the basic problems (cause and effect) ..you deal with a wider amount of labs than I do, just wondered how it seems to you ?
    If I hear one more time, "well I did it exactly like the ticket said, I don't know why it came out this way" I'm going to commit suicide by throwing myself on to my generator wheel!! :-)

    Jeff"lab rat, and wear that badge proudly(most of the time)" Trail :-)
    JR YOU NEWER ANSWERED THIS QUESTION!
    I also work with a Lab Rat and I am sory but i cant understand why he has to check and change almost all work tickets!
    Why cant it be incorporated in to the program!

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    This thread is almost 4 years old.

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    YES!
    bUT I BET YOU THE PROBLEMS ARE CURRENT!

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