Value PAL's

[buckeyefan]

We offer a value single vision and bifocal frame and lens package. We do not do value PAL packages. But it seems lately that more and more patients are asking for their scripts to go to a big chain because they are having a sale on PAL's for some ridiculous cheap price. And we do explain to them that our PAL's utilize the latest technology and blah blah blah. But they don't care and just want the cheapest. I was just curious how many people offer a value PAL frame and lens package. And if so, what lens do you use? Thanks for your input!

[adreyyy]

We do. For $379 we offer a frame with poly, ovation, and crizal easy. We hardly ever use the promotion but it's available to patients with no insurance and wants cheap cheap cheap.

[Bill West]

we offer a value single vision and bifocal frame and lens package. We do not do value pal packages. But it seems lately that more and more patients are asking for their scripts to go to a big chain because they are having a sale on pal's for some ridiculous cheap price. And we do explain to them that our pal's utilize the latest technology and blah blah blah. But they don't care and just want the cheapest. I was just curious how many people offer a value pal frame and lens package. And if so, what lens do you use? Thanks for your input!

if it's cheap enough, they will wear anything. Any frame, except 3 pc, pal and a/r $ 199.00 - digital pal $299.00

[Paul Smith LDO]

We offer a value single vision and bifocal frame and lens package. We do not do value PAL packages. But it seems lately that more and more patients are asking for their scripts to go to a big chain because they are having a sale on PAL's for some ridiculous cheap price. And we do explain to them that our PAL's utilize the latest technology and blah blah blah. But they don't care and just want the cheapest. I was just curious how many people offer a value PAL frame and lens package. And if so, what lens do you use? Thanks for your input!

DEL, offers a great price on their G-PAL; back surface digital.

[iD]

We do offer two PAL packages. One is priced at $250 and that's the basic package then we offer a $370 digital premium package with all the bells and whistles.

[merrymaker]

$370 digital PAL with AR AND a poly-like option, does that also include frame?

[Jubilee]

I have been tossing the idea around of offering an "Offline" package at around WP and a local kiosk chain pricing. Use Similar quality frames in a limited selection (read BUDGET) and poly lenses with AR.. no insurance, discounts, or substitutions. Power limitations do apply. With proper buying techniques you can make more than what many VCPs are offering. In many cases you and your patient can both come out ahead!

Now this won't be a Shamir Autograph III with Crizal Avance or Zeiss Individual 2B with Purecoat Plus..

This will be lab private label product, most likely a digital but not a true customized/individualized lens. It will not be presented as the best. The best will have better abbe materials, name branded lenses and coatings warrantied for 2 years. This is warranted for one year.

If not doing with an AR, some of the value lenses are the Younger Image, Shore, and Instinctive. I had the best success with the Image in this group.

[iD]

$370 digital PAL with AR AND a poly-like option, does that also include frame?

Yes it does. They only have about 10-20 frames to choose from.

[ml43]

I have been tossing the idea around of offering an "Offline" package at around WP and a local kiosk chain pricing. Use Similar quality frames in a limited selection (read BUDGET) and poly lenses with AR.. no insurance, discounts, or substitutions. Power limitations do apply. With proper buying techniques you can make more than what many VCPs are offering. In many cases you and your patient can both come out ahead!

Now this won't be a Shamir Autograph III with Crizal Avance or Zeiss Individual 2B with Purecoat Plus..

This will be lab private label product, most likely a digital but not a true customized/individualized lens. It will not be presented as the best. The best will have better abbe materials, name branded lenses and coatings warrantied for 2 years. This is warranted for one year.

If not doing with an AR, some of the value lenses are the Younger Image, Shore, and Instinctive. I had the best success with the Image in this group.

Perceived value... Period.


Personally if we are talking about existing patients, not new patients or walk-ins

I would bite the bullet and put them in an awesome lens, but just not tell them what it is.

Happy patients come back, especially if the competition is much worse.

a lot easier to upsell a happy patient than one that is just content with their glasses.

thats my take on it.

[Jubilee]

I have some jumbled thoughts on this, so hopefully I can make some sense of it while writing them down.

My number one complaint on why someone did not purchase glasses from us is cost. Even with insurance, many of the patients are spending hundreds of dollars out of pocket for their eyewear. Patients think "Damn my glasses are expensive going to my independent shop! I couldn't afford to shop here with out my insurance...." not realizing that their "insurance" is the exact reason why many providers have had to raise their prices in order to make enough to survive. Heck most of them now tell you what lenses you can use and how much to charge.. very similar to a pharmacy. No Mr. Jones, I can't change your copay to only $10 on your Viagra. BCBS clearly states your copay is $45. We can't even control our own COGS for lenses and coatings because we have to order the "formulary" product through their distribution channels, and we are automatically charged for these products at a set price which is promptly taken out of our reimbursements.

WP et al, jump on board and continue to fuel that crap about one company to rule them all, price fixing, and independent shops being middle men out to make millions off these poor people needing a simple medical device to see. According to them, technology hasn't changed in years.. a couple of hunks of plastic shouldn't be so dang expensive (rolls eyes)

Patient needing/wanting another pair sees these promotions and thinks once again "Dang what these folks are saying in the Wall Street Journal and 60 minutes must be right. We paid more than they are quoting, after insurance! I love my optician's attention to detail and their service, but times are tight and I can't afford to be wasting money.."

Many of the online customers know that the quality is not the best. However, they just like the people who buy a Nissan Versa, just wants something that will get them from point A to point B without busting their pocket book.

I want to have something like my Cruze. While still not the best car available, it does have a fairly smooth ride, comfortable for multi-hour drives, and a few decent perks. Even on the base model. Cost me a little more than the Versa I looked at. However not more than 10% and after driving it, worth every penny.

I want to offer something similar in eyewear. It won't be the best. Not everyone can afford a Caddy, Lexus, or BMW.. let alone a Rolls Royce. However many people still buy these cars. The same clientele looking at a Cadillac is not tempted by the Chevy Cruze. However someone looking for a Versa (thinking cheap budget) might be tempted to take it up a step if kept within that 10% - just a few dollars more price range.

Now circling back to my previous takes about vision care plans. When I can use the products I want from the distributors I want, at a price I negotiate.. I can make more money selling at a lower price point to the patient by cutting out the "insurance" middle man, than selling something of comparable value through managed care. Managed care benefits all only when talking premium brand name PALS, Coatings and frames above $200.

Certainly I will still champion the best products. However if you are private pay and don't have the $$$ for an Auto III / Varilux S Design / or Zeiss Individual 2 with uber AR.. then I would like to have an option for you.

It is also possible by having something that beats VCP pricing, that patient's will realize their VCP isn't worth all the money they are paying them!

[standarduck]

Some of the 'budget' high street options in the UK do complete sets with PALs for £69...today, that's $101.

I can't imagine what they're fitting into frame at that price...

[Tallboy]

I can do some pretty competitive pricing using sola/zeiss Instinctive, just a great great value lens. The problem I run into is I really REALLY hate budget ARs that are not on "stock" sv lenses. They stink and patients come back complaining about them no matter what

[ml43]

I can do some pretty competitive pricing using sola/zeiss Instinctive, just a great great value lens. The problem I run into is I really REALLY hate budget ARs that are not on "stock" sv lenses. They stink and patients come back complaining about them no matter what

don't sell budget ar :)

find a good coating lab that will do awesome ar for budget pricing.

they are out there, you just have to look. ar coating is all about volume.

it costs the same to coat one lens vs 20-50 if the chamber isn't full.

biggest cost is labor

[standarduck]

find a good coating lab that will do awesome ar for budget pricing.

I don't understand the business model you're describing. Can you elaborate? And what happens when you need a particular PAL design?

[ml43]

I don't understand the business model you're describing. Can you elaborate? And what happens when you need a particular PAL design?

you order it without ar, then send it to an ar lab. like I said, it's about volume.

ar labs can do 2-5 times the volume(coating only) of a medium full service lab in the same amount of space, with the same amount of labor force.

[Chris Ryser]

Many of the online customers know that the quality is not the best. However, they just like the people who buy a Nissan Versa, just wants something that will get them from point A to point B without busting their pocket book.

Retailers should find a product they can compete with the on-line competition and either sell it, and or learn how to up sell to better and more expensive items.

These days there is so many people looking through the web to find the article they want or need, that they have become geniuses in searching.

So what you need is to get interested people that want to compare into your store and physically see what is available. If you want to learn some sale psychology it is also available on the web. You have to match what they want to get them there and then change their mind to what the to get.

However if a customers pocket do not allow them to spend more than they can not afford, be ready for a solution that will compete with the on line operations.

Sell CR39 stock lenses and offer the extra treatments you can do in house for a reasonable price.

[merrymaker]

Who here is offering a value package deal who doesn't happen to have an in-house edging lab?

[DylanDavis]

Do you usually present specific designs/products (Shamir Autograph III, Seiko Surmount, Zeiss Individual), or do you focus on utilities, like emphasized viewing areas and the various general designs out there with Freeform technology?

I'm curious.

[Jubilee]

I can actually get a decent poly ar coated FSV cheaper than I can a plastic one.

Let me make something clear. My office is not struggling. For a single provider shop with our small footprint, we even have well know industry consultants that say "how the heck are you doing that!"

Outside of the 10-15 medicaid patients a week, we are in the 90% AR and 95% premium materials. We even upgrade about 50% of our medicaid patients to either a premium material or to a progressive MF for adults. We believe in what we recommend and it shows.

However, there is always room for improvement.

Upon occasion we do discuss brands, however it is rare. We discuss the benefits of AR and for those who have had prior issues with the coating, reassure them that we use premium products that are multi-layered for better durability, give them the proper tools to care of it, and our guarantee. For PAL lenses we only offer digital product except for with Davis Vision patients. I spent a great deal of time discussing the benefits of it with a valued patient, only for Davis to take 6 pairs and 10+ weeks to get me an InTouch and was promptly told by owners to never order a digital through Davis again.

When I consult with a patient, I generally ask a few questions about their work and discuss how their current eyewear is performing. This can lead to discussion on the assorted designs out there. This might be when I talk about the adjustable corridor lengths, etc.

What I want is to improve the number of pairs we sell and make us a destination. Moving to a new location and thus more room, new look will help in some degree. I am also going to be bringing in some new frames including 1-2 private label collections, some that offer customization, and new strategies. While offering a straight discount on second pairs have helped, there is a group of folks who are still turned off by the perceived higher costs. I believe having a budget package available for a net price will help boost those multiple pairs further, and help keep folks in house who otherwise might go to a discounter or online shop. Who says you can't have a bit of something for everyone?

[Happylady]

I tried our budget progressive and I love it! It works great and I can not tell it apart from the top of the line Zeiss or Varilux S 4D that I also have. I'm not settling, I honestly like it. My RX isn't complicated but I have about a diopter of astigmatism and a 2.50 add.

How many of you have tried your budget progressive?

[ml43]

jubilee,

while I agree with trying to expand your market share or perceived market share. I generally don't agree with trying to sell to two different markets from a single location.

perfect example is pearle vision vs optical shop of aspen/ilori.

by trying to sell to two different markets at the same time/same location, you risk canabalizing one of them. normally the first to feel the hit is the higher end stuff, unless you are using your budget stuff to sell your premium stuff.

personally I think it's more profitable to sell more expensive things to increase profit.

of course demographics will play a huge role, but with the way online optical sales are going. why compete by being similar, when you can conquer by being different in every way possible.

[jefe]

My shop is set up in such a way that there are hundreds of frames which can be combined with single vision lenses for under $100 and with a digital PAL for under $200.

[jefe]

don't sell budget ar :)

find a good coating lab that will do awesome ar for budget pricing.

they are out there, you just have to look. ar coating is all about volume.

it costs the same to coat one lens vs 20-50 if the chamber isn't full.

biggest cost is labor

Labs with good AR deals are definitely out here.

[drk]

It is also possible by having something that beats VCP pricing, that patient's will realize their VCP isn't worth all the money they are paying them!

Remember this quote.