We are near four military facilities (one is a major deployment point for Afganistan). We are seeing more requests for ballistic safety eyewear. We also get requests from hunters. What do you use, and what do you recommend?
Lost and confused in an optical wonderland!
I believe Wiley-X has products that are ballistic tested.
Ballistic Safety Glasses, Ballistic Sunglasses and Ballistic Goggles ................
Ballistic Safety Glasses, Ballistic Sunglasses and Ballistic Goggles
The websitendoesn't list the specific's and I'm too lazy to investigate. Anyone know what the specs are? I'm guessing center thickness of 2.5+mm in polycarb? Any lab should be able to make ballistic lenses if they have the specs
One thing to be cautious about is meeting military specs. The reason they are going to a dispenser is probably because the supply lines from the contract holder are backed up. If they are coming to you as an individual, that's one thing. If they are using a military purchase order or credit card, that's something else, and you need to ask questions about what specifications are required for the eyewear.
I believe that in this usage the term "ballistic" is a marketing catch phrase in the manner of "turbo" or "quantum." I am sure that there must be a "milspec" out there which would define some standard required by the guvment.
By the way, the troops during WWII (the big one) and Korea were issues glass lenses with 1.0 mm CT and were not heat treated or tempered.
Very true. But Ballistic as used for military eyewear means "bullet resistant (up to a point)" and "shrapnel/flying debris" safe.Originally Posted by rbaker
Excerpt from the backgrounder:
... for ballistic protective eyewear it is required that it meets military standards for impact protection. (MIL-DTL-43511D clause 3.5.10 for goggles and visors and MIL-PRF31013 clause 3.5.1.1 for spectacles. Though these standards have been very commonly used especially by NATO forces, an update on MCEPS of January 2013 now reference these clauses in MIL-PRF-32432. Ballistic sunglasses or prescription eyeglasses must meet the same requirements. In brief, the U.S. military standard requires that ballistic eyewear must be able to withstand up to a .15 caliber (at 640 ft/sec) for spectacles and .22 caliber at 550-560 ft/sec for goggles.Manufacturers offer a variety of styles and colors to meet different needs and preferences. Some make claims of superior side protection, comfort, anti-fog coatings, interchangeable lenses, transition lenses, etc. At least one product from more than a half dozen manufacturers are listed on the U.S. Army’s Authorized Protective Eyewear List (APEL).[3] Some options, including the Wiley X PT-1 and Talon as well as Revision's Sawfly and the Desert Locust Goggle can be obtained in prescription lenses that meet the ballistic protection standards.
In addition to impact requirements, the U.S. Army requires for its soldiers that ballistic eyewear be functional, reasonably comfortable, not faddish (i.e., no bright colors or distracting designs) and able to be disinfected.The U.S. military standard requires (at a minimum) that ballistic eyewear can always withstand a 0.15 caliber, 5.8 grain, T37 shaped projectile at a velocity of 640 to 660 feet per second (approximately 3.8 mm 0.376 g at a velocity of 195 – 201 m/s). For testing, the velocity of the projectile must be verified using sound or optical chronograph methods. The eyewear is put on an Alderson 50th percentile male headform. A 0.002 inch thick aluminum foil "witness sheet" is placed behind the area of impact. This sheet shows whether any small pieces penetrate or come off of the eyewear during the test. The eyewear being tested is hit one time straight on slightly toward the outside of the center of the lens. The eyewear fails the test if the aluminum foil witness sheet is punctured or if the eyewear is cracked.
In addition to ballistic performance, the U.S. military standard includes requirements for optical clarity, protection from UV rays, fit, chemical resistance, and environmental stability (properties won’t be changed by exposure to a range of temperatures or levels of humidity).
IMO, unless I could guarantee absolutely that the eyewear I was providing could meet the spec, I would not sell it.
"Dabbling" (and please understand that I mean no offense by that term) with a product that isn't on the APEL can result in big problems for you down the road.
... for ballistic protective eyewear it is required that it meets military standards for impact protection. (MIL-DTL-43511D clause 3.5.10 for goggles and visors and MIL-PRF31013 clause 3.5.1.1 for spectacles. Though these standards have been very commonly used especially by NATO forces, an update on MCEPS of January 2013 now reference these clauses in MIL-PRF-32432. Ballistic sunglasses or prescription eyeglasses must meet the same requirements. In brief, the U.S. military standard requires that ballistic eyewear must be able to withstand up to a .15 caliber (at 640 ft/sec) for spectacles and .22 caliber at 550-560 ft/sec for goggles.
So what would the thickness need to be in poly or trivex to meet this standard?
You would have to certify and prove that you performed the tests in order to get certification. It isn't about "how thick".
Agreed, Wiley X is our go to. We contract with our county FD for their safety eyewear. Granted it's much more relaxed than the military but the product is a perfect fit.
You can have Wiley do the Rx lenses and let them know what 'spec' you need. It's all they do, as a matter of fact.
cs
I agree. But how thick would the lens have to be to stand up to the standards mentioned.
As Mike pointed out I don't think thickness is a consideration. I believe that the Milspec requirements are similar to the AN standards which require that in order to be so designated the product must be defined, fabricated, tested and then labeled. There may be no subsequent variance whatsoever in future products.
Wiley makes their lenses 2.1mm thick at thinnest point.
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
Thanks Mike - I have already researched the APEL list, and now I'm getting a bit skittish about getting involved in this. The gov. regs are daunting.
You have no idea.
Back in the late 80's, I bid on a contract for the navy to provide laser protective eyewear to the Navy. (Little did we know that Saddam Hussein would take that walk across the desert into Kuwait...but that's a story that calls for a lot of beer).
The DOD is required by law to give small business priority on contract of certain items, and 'protective eyewear' is on that list. The DOD has assistance for small businesses who are interested in being a contractor: http://www.acq.osd.mil/osbp/ They have specialists in practically every item on the SBP list. They have teams that will help small businesses get ready for government contracting, to understand specifications and inspection techniques. But this is not a task for the average 3-5 person business.
Every MIL-SPEC has references to other MIL-SPEC's. And you must have copies of all related specifications ON SITE. You must read them and understand them. You must be cognizant of the ramifications of each aspect of the MIL-SPEC.
For example, the SPEC MIL-PRF31013 from above (http://everyspec.com/MIL-PRF/MIL-PRF...F-31013_20540/), references the following:
Standards:
FEDERALA-A-55273 Retainer, Eyewear
MILITARYMIL-STD-662 V50Ballistic Test for Armor
Drawings:
U.S. Army Natick Research, Development, and Engineering CenterDrawing No. 8-2-1102 -Kit, Eye Armor, Cylindrical
Non-Governmental Publications:
AMERICAN SOCETY FOR TESTING AND MATERIALS (ASTM)
ASTM D 1003- Standard Test Method For Haze and Luminous Transmittance of TransparentPlastics
ASTM D 1044- Standard Test Method For Resistance of Transparent Plastics to SurfaceAbrasion
AMERICAN NATIONAL STANDARDS ~sm~ (ANSI)
ANSI-Z80. 1- Ophthrdmics - Prescription Ophthalmic Lenses - Recommendations
ANSI-Z80.3 - Ophthafrnics - Nonprescription Sunglasses and Fashion Eyewear Requirements
ANSI-Z87. 1- Practice for Occupational and Educational Eye and Face Protection
You will need to have a spectrophotometer ON SITE to test for UV absorption (4.4.2.5 Ultraviolet absolution. The spectral transmittance of the sample shall be measured witha standard spectrophotometer from 290 nm to 380 nm and the mean transmittance shall be calculatedas described in ANSI 280.3.) and chromaticity (spectrophotometer needs an integrating sphere)
That's just a taste of the requirements for documentation. You can't get away with saying that the manufacturer of the spectacle lenses has already done that unless you can provide actual data and traceable lot numbers.
There's the optical way, the regular way, the government way, and then there is the military way. It's not easy and it is certainly NOT cheap.
Mike, you left off ANSI-Z80.5-2010 Requirements for Ophthalmic Frames
We've been making frames for the military for many, many years now. We provided them with the very large, very ugly S8 and S9 "Birth Control Glasses" (and that's one of the nicer names for them), and are currently providing them with the newer, much better models.
There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.
LOL!! That particular one isn't referenced in the general specification, but I'm sure its referenced somewhere else.
The only glasses that will still meet the military's ballistic standard once RX'd are styles that have an RX insert that snaps in behind a shield style lens.
Last edited by Redhead; 02-03-2015 at 03:24 PM.
Certain Wiley X frames and Smith Elite. Both have been tested and certified to "mil spec".
Yes, the Wiley X Talon meets the ballistic spec once RX'd and is listed on the APEL.
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