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Thread: Optician Guild/Union or what ever

  1. #101
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    Spot on Wes and Paul! And until we have a nationally understood, and recognized definition, and a formal approach to entering the field, we are doomed to continue along this same path. It is a shame because we could be so much more than we are if we just would have some vision.

  2. #102
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    The problem with opticianry resembles American politics. Those in power benefit from the dysfunctional system while those at the bottom are too apathetic to care. Few are inclined to change a dysfunctional system until it becomes extremely oppressive, and since opticianry has few standards, it is not oppressive at all. Just failing miserably. A majority got into this "profession" by accident and stayed because it was so easy. Good luck getting them to vote to make it harder. The opposite is far more likely.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  3. #103
    Master OptiBoarder tx11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I respectfully disagree. The public is precisely who "hires and employs people to do the job". Without their decision to walk through your front door, and hire you and/or your doctor/owner to assist in their eye health care, there is no money period. Doesn't matter if you're dispensing, refracting, or surgery-ing ;). With the public's proverbial eye drawn more an more to the interwebs in their search for eyewear/care, the onus remains on dispensers to use whatever drive they have if they wish to create some means of differentiating in the public eye (such as a new guild or union or whatever).
    Don't the states strictly regulate MD/OD.ONLY those passing the licensing test can LEGALLY practice. NOT so with "optician". Anybody can be hired to perform optician work. In the public eye...If you work for and eye doctor of any kind or sell eyewear anywhere...you are an "optician". So restricting who can be hired to function as an optician seems key. maybe...

  4. #104
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    Optician should be simple to define: A person who, using their knowledge of optical science, helps pick out the best frame for the patients visual needs. It should be a title like any other that is earned.
    Speaking as someone who got in the field on a whim of trying something new I'm all about making it more streamlined, improving the education, bringing more to what we do. I've trained quite a few new people who came in the field and I always hear the same after a wile, "What's next?" I tell them about the tests, ABO A&M, but have to explain that they really only mean something out side of the corporate world.

  5. #105
    Master OptiBoarder tx11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    The problem with opticianry resembles American politics. Those in power benefit from the dysfunctional system while those at the bottom are too apathetic to care. Few are inclined to change a dysfunctional system until it becomes extremely oppressive, and since opticianry has few standards, it is not oppressive at all. Just failing miserably. A majority got into this "profession" by accident and stayed because it was so easy. Good luck getting them to vote to make it harder. The opposite is far more likely.
    Who would you say are "those in power"?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boldt View Post
    Optician should be simple to define: A person who, using their knowledge of optical science, helps pick out the best frame for the patients visual needs. It should be a title like any other that is earned.
    Speaking as someone who got in the field on a whim of trying something new I'm all about making it more streamlined, improving the education, bringing more to what we do. I've trained quite a few new people who came in the field and I always hear the same after a wile, "What's next?" I tell them about the tests, ABO A&M, but have to explain that they really only mean something out side of the corporate world.
    Best frame for their visual needs? You have to be kidding, right? SO we are frame salespeople, as you see it? Bless your heart. Go back on this board for years, and you will see all of the disagreements regarding the definition of Optician. I want to see us practice at a much higher level than you to include contact lenses, refraction and low vision. Most here cannot even find the power of a lens in a given axis if their life depended it. So as simple as you feel it may be, you are simply incorrect. It has been tried for many years to no avail.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    Don't the states strictly regulate MD/OD.ONLY those passing the licensing test can LEGALLY practice. NOT so with "optician". Anybody can be hired to perform optician work. In the public eye...If you work for and eye doctor of any kind or sell eyewear anywhere...you are an "optician". So restricting who can be hired to function as an optician seems key. maybe...
    But as Wes stated above, getting the masses to support increasing standards, when they themselves have none, will be tough. But until we do have some restrictions we will continue to struggle.

  8. #108
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    if a person could answer 100 percent all of the questions from two or three optical text books, what text books would those be and would it satisfy being called an optician ? would it exceed present standards ?

  9. #109
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    wmcdonald:
    You're right I should have included contact lenses in my post. It should have read more like this: Optician: A person who uses their knowledge of optical science to help people pick out the best visual product for their needs, helps with any trouble shooting with a persons frame/lens/contacts. It's still dumbed down, but more accurate.
    And yes, a frame is very important in helping people see to often I see 26 eyes with a progressive shoved in at 18-20mm giving almost no distance. People using huge frames with high RX's. Frames are not the only part of the whole, but they are important.
    I know that Refractions have been proposed and if we, as an industry, could shape up it could be done. After a long fight with the OD's.
    If we can't find the power, then shouldn't the more experienced opticians show us? I mean no disrespect with this, but I see this happen when new people come to older hands for help.
    I've had it happen many times. I tend to want to find out what I don't know, but not every person does. It's easy to get discouraged and just do the least possible. I know I can't do that if I ever plan to open my own store front or advance my self in this industry. But, I also know that the deck at best in not in my favor in this learning.
    I'm not meaning to rant, but I have always held the belief that those with knowledge are obliged to do their best to pass it on.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boldt View Post
    wmcdonald:
    You're right I should have included contact lenses in my post. It should have read more like this: Optician: A person who uses their knowledge of optical science to help people pick out the best visual product for their needs, helps with any trouble shooting with a persons frame/lens/contacts. It's still dumbed down, but more accurate.
    And yes, a frame is very important in helping people see to often I see 26 eyes with a progressive shoved in at 18-20mm giving almost no distance. People using huge frames with high RX's. Frames are not the only part of the whole, but they are important.
    I know that Refractions have been proposed and if we, as an industry, could shape up it could be done. After a long fight with the OD's.
    If we can't find the power, then shouldn't the more experienced opticians show us? I mean no disrespect with this, but I see this happen when new people come to older hands for help.
    I've had it happen many times. I tend to want to find out what I don't know, but not every person does. It's easy to get discouraged and just do the least possible. I know I can't do that if I ever plan to open my own store front or advance my self in this industry. But, I also know that the deck at best in not in my favor in this learning.
    I'm not meaning to rant, but I have always held the belief that those with knowledge are obliged to do their best to pass it on.
    No one in this industry has done more to help those who seek knowledge than me. I have always lived up to the concept of paying it forward, and want the very best for those in the field. I have met and surpassed that obligation long before you arrived, thank you very much. But do you not also recognize there must be some baseline of knowledge prior to coning into any professional field to serve the general public.......especially in allied health fields? If they....you, or anyone else for that matter, dose not have that baseline of knowledge, you should be required to have it, which is not the case in Opticianry. There is the problem......not the fact that more knowledgeable, experienced folks won't help. It is the system that allows ill-prepared (or in our case, not prepared at all) folks to enter the field in the first place.

    As to the silly question about reading textbooks........there is not set "two or three" books to read that makes for an education. Would it raise the standard? Absolutely. Ever notice that some of the "professionals" can't answer even the basic questions one would expect any professional to know?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    ...I want to see us practice at a much higher level than you to include contact lenses, refraction and low vision...
    And you expect no resistance from OD's when trying to muscle in on their turf? I think strong opticians have plenty enough to concern themselves with and can easily grow the standard of our profession without the need to play doctor on top of it all. To want to push for such a dramatically expanded scope like that - rather than focusing on what elevates dispensing itself to a new level seems to be folly incarnate.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    if a person could answer 100 percent all of the questions from two or three optical text books, what text books would those be and would it satisfy being called an optician ? would it exceed present standards ?
    1. Corneal Contact Lenses -Girard
    2. The Ophthalmic Assistant -Stein, Stein, Freeman
    3. System for Ophthalmic Dispensing -Brooks, Borish.

    Yes, and yes.

    But as wmcdonald says, they should be part of a formal education.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  13. #113
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    I'm not saying that you are holding back on you're knowledge, I was able to skim the articles you wrote and agree there needs to be a base line in the industry.
    I agree and disagree with what you say about the industry. I've found a handful of people willing to take the time to teach about lenses (none for contacts) to help beyond sell this it's the best. I agree that there is a desperate need to vastly improve the standards.
    I'm sorry if my last post implied you're not helpful. :^)

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    Don't the states strictly regulate MD/OD.ONLY those passing the licensing test can LEGALLY practice. NOT so with "optician". Anybody can be hired to perform optician work. In the public eye...If you work for and eye doctor of any kind or sell eyewear anywhere...you are an "optician". So restricting who can be hired to function as an optician seems key. maybe...
    State regulatory agencies are reliant on the working professionals and the public at large to police each health care profession. The general public wouldn't know the tell tale signs that there is something aloof, how can the public not trust the lab coat, it's the perfect disguise much better then the black frame, with big nose, bushy eyebrows, and creepy mustache. That leaves the police work with the profession.
    Last edited by Paul Smith LDO; 10-13-2014 at 01:03 PM.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith LDO View Post
    State regulatory agencies are reliant on the working professionals and the public at large to police each health care profession. The general public wouldn't know the tell tale signs that there is something aloof, how can the public not trust the lab coat, it's the perfect disguise much better then the black frame, with big nose, bushy eyebrows, and creepy mustache. That leave the police work with the profession.
    Hey!?!? That's my avatar... Is the mustache that creepy? Lol...Maybe its time for an update..

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    Hey!?!? That's my avatar... Is the mustache that creepy? Lol...Maybe its time for an update..
    Creepy works for me, unless your disguise is, Harry Reems.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  17. #117
    Master OptiBoarder tx11's Avatar
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    Had to look him up...and then ...

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    Had to look him up...and then ...
    He too played a doctor, white lab coat and glasses.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    Had to look him up...and then ...
    Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith LDO View Post
    He too played a doctor, white lab coat and glasses.


    REALLY ...Im not sure what you're point is.??

  21. #121
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    [QUOTE=tx11;494761][/COLOR]
    REALLY ...Im not sure what you're point is.??[/QUOTE

    It's a reference to the regulatory statement you made, Harry Reems played a doctor in the classic, Deep Throat. It makes my point about the public being fooled by his disguise, lab coat. Only a member of the health care profession could see that he really wasn't a doctor. However, thru pure scientific method he was able to prove his hypothesis in a manner that only the adult entertain community could provide. A regular Professor Henry Higgins, e' was.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  22. #122
    Master OptiBoarder tx11's Avatar
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    oh ....ok...got you! I still might consider changing my avatar now though...

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    oh ....ok...got you! I still might consider changing my avatar now though...
    That would depend upon what one thinks of his resume. He was a stand up guy.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  24. #124
    Master OptiBoarder tx11's Avatar
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    What?.. He was a comedian too?

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    And you expect no resistance from OD's when trying to muscle in on their turf? I think strong opticians have plenty enough to concern themselves with and can easily grow the standard of our profession without the need to play doctor on top of it all. To want to push for such a dramatically expanded scope like that - rather than focusing on what elevates dispensing itself to a new level seems to be folly incarnate.
    Unlike some, I am not afraid of the ODs, and in fact, you might be surprised to know many of them support Opticians moving forward as well......unlike some here who support very little beyond their own front door.

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