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Thread: Optician Guild/Union or what ever

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    I don't think the Doc's hold the key.
    I wouldn't mind being wrong, but I'm not seeing it. Happy to hear how I'm reading the green wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Again I'm not clear as to why it's a bad thing to unionize and drive up the cost of chains doing business. So quarterly profits drop less that .5% of multi-million dollar corporations who could care less about the well being of their employees.

    That's a bad thing for the single mom trying to make a career with her high school diploma by having a much stronger voice advocating for a living wage predicated on getting more education and not what ever add on's she can up-sell to boost the commission?

    I'm advocating for the McGlasses employees who are the future and have very little voice to change the situation. Many of whom cannot contribute to this thread for fear of being found out by their employer and fired. A situation now where they can be given a "supervisor" title and then be forced to work OT with no compensation. Yes-They can quit-- I get that!!! But why not promote an option that would help the little guy and begin to create national standards- all be it to a small but growing segment of opticianry.

    Now if your disagreement stems from a belief that all unions are always corrupt then you should say so and let the discussion continue with those who disagree.
    Wasn't making a value judgment on unions or the economic cause of McGlasses folks. I used to be one. Proud of it. Still have the old store magnet on my fridge. I don't disagree they're the HR crop field for the industry.

    But I'm not the one who steered this thread off the 'union' track. The OP expressed interest in 'state of the profession' and discussion spiraled in on professional education. That's the angle I found interesting and volunteered how I 'read the green' on that point.

    My opinion on the virtue or vices of unions is irrelevant--what the public and job creators think is.

    ...and my opinion one way or the other on any subject doesn't inhibit anybody from proceeding with any discussion as they wish.

    This thread canvases a lot of topics, kinda like an Occupy rally. I will say those were awfully silly. If we're talking about professional education, I'm interested. To that end, I see 'union' as a side issue that would kill focus and momentum at every juncture.

    If the thread is about living wages for McGlasses folks--I missed it entirely.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boldt View Post
    If it's been dumbed down I'd hate to see years passed.
    I had a manager talk me into taking it twice about a year after I started in a lab, and I failed. It was close both times (4 points and one point), but some of the questions are about lenses that are almost never used, and some very obscure things for some one who is new. Part of it goes back to education, something Georgia lacked and being able to wade through some misinformation. I've got the study guides now and this time I should be ready, but I cant say a test with a pass rate of under 60% from what I hear is easy.
    I took and passed both the ABO and NCLE second quarter in my first year of Opticianry School, 1996 and remember being disappointed with each, in their lack of context. To hear that it is being dumbed down does not bode well for the future of our industry.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  3. #78
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    I think that's the difference, you took classes, I took it via work experience. I was shocked by some of the questions with blended bi-focals and round segs, something I had never even heard of. Now I'll get it, but it seems like that most people who said it was dumbed down took it years ago when training for it was a bigger thing. This is part of why I am looking for ways to standardize the industry. The educate then legislate seems to have failed. At this point forming a national entity and figuring out political ways of improving.

  4. #79
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    KLEENEX,

    Has no education

    Has no legislation

    but everyone knows what it is.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    KLEENEX,

    Has no education

    Has no legislation


    but everyone knows what it is.
    Much like opticians....Many people purchase facial tissue (refer to it as KLEENEX) BUT IT IS NOT KLEENEX .ONLY KLEENEX IS ACTUALLY KLEENEX. Just sayin'

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    Much like opticians....Many people purchase facial tissue (refer to it as KLEENEX) BUT IT IS NOT KLEENEX .ONLY KLEENEX IS ACTUALLY KLEENEX. Just sayin'
    just sayin:

    KLEENEX is a brand, or branding, it has no education but it educates.

    KLEENEX is a brand or branding, it has no legislation but it rules

    Build the brand, sell the rights to use it to members who qualify and meet the standards of the brand.

  7. #82
    Master OptiBoarder tx11's Avatar
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    UNFORTUNATLY IN TEXAS and MANY OTHER STAES if you sell eyewear (and ANYBODY can) in a OD/MD/INDEPENDANT/Chain or BIG BOX you are called an "optician". Perhaps we need to come up with another Title that can only be used by prequalified professionals and have that start showing up...build that brand...copyright it.
    Last edited by tx11; 10-10-2014 at 10:31 AM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boldt View Post
    I think that's the difference, you took classes, I took it via work experience. I was shocked by some of the questions with blended bi-focals and round segs, something I had never even heard of. Now I'll get it, but it seems like that most people who said it was dumbed down took it years ago when training for it was a bigger thing. This is part of why I am looking for ways to standardize the industry. The educate then legislate seems to have failed. At this point forming a national entity and figuring out political ways of improving.
    I read the same books that most people did on this board, the same books that have been touted for years on this board, the same books that are available to you. Attending classes does not guarantee acquisition of knowledge. If you don't study, you don't learn and you don't pass. If I were you, I'd focus on myself and my education instead of trying to find ways to standardize this industry.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith LDO View Post
    I read the same books that most people did on this board, the same books that have been touted for years on this board, the same books that are available to you. Attending classes does not guarantee acquisition of knowledge. If you don't study, you don't learn and you don't pass.
    Very true! It's a lot like the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." As far as the NOCE is concerned, when I'm asked about the exam, I refer to it as the "125 Ways To Straighten A Frame" test. When I took it in 2012 I wasn't sure what to expect, but I had studied every resource I could possibly get my hands on. I too was highly disappointed in the exam and felt that the majority of it only required common sense. I guess it is much better to be over prepared rather than be under prepared.
    Last edited by Steve Machol; 10-10-2014 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Removed copyright violation

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    ...Perhaps we need to come up with another Title that can only be used by prequalified professionals and have that start showing up...build that brand...copyright it.
    Remember, the point of this silly exercise is to generate greater public awareness of opticianry. And the vast majority of the public already makes little to no distinction and certainly can't define any differences between the three current O's. Why would we want to further muddy and confusticate the waters of public ignorance by adding yet another cryptic term to something most people don't even care about?

    Step back and look at it from a non-optical public stance. What can this industry do to simplify (and in so doing define & elevate) our public image - not make things more abstruse.

  11. #86
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    The public isn't the problem..really...its who hires and employs people to the job.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan barber View Post
    Very true! It's a lot like the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." If anyone is interested, I have a .pdf copy of "System For Ophthalmic Dispensing" that I can send if anyone is looking for great reading material. As far as the NOCE is concerned, when I'm asked about the exam, I refer to it as the "125 Ways To Straighten A Frame" test. When I took it in 2012 I wasn't sure what to expect, but I had studied every resource I could possibly get my hands on. I too was highly disappointed in the exam and felt that the majority of it only required common sense. I guess it is much better to be over prepared rather than be under prepared.
    The test must have really changed since 1989

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    I'm getting book and rectifying the situation on my own. I own my education no problem. :^)
    The problem is that until I went to the small office world I had no clue to what was out there. If some one has no idea what is out there then how can they be expected to learn it? And this is the norm in the industry.
    That being said I'm not trying to stabilize the industry. (yet I need many more years under my belt before I try that :^) ) I'm making an observation that there is quite literally masters level if not PHD levels of knowledge that go into being a good optician. I'd like to see people rewarded for what they had done to get where they are.

    :^) all that being said what books are they? I have a detailed study guide for the ABO, a doctor's book on contacts that I'm struggling through, and read everything I can find on the web. I would love to get the books you're speaking of.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan barber View Post
    Very true! It's a lot like the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." If anyone is interested, I have a .pdf copy of "System For Ophthalmic Dispensing" that I can send if anyone is looking for great reading material. As far as the NOCE is concerned, when I'm asked about the exam, I refer to it as the "125 Ways To Straighten A Frame" test. When I took it in 2012 I wasn't sure what to expect, but I had studied every resource I could possibly get my hands on. I too was highly disappointed in the exam and felt that the majority of it only required common sense. I guess it is much better to be over prepared rather than be under prepared.
    I would love the PDF!

  15. #90
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boldt View Post
    I If some one has no idea what is out there then how can they be expected to learn it? .
    Boldt you bring up a good point, you, like most people in the industry(new and old) don't know what they don't know. I personally know many licensed Opticians who could not calculate the amount of prism that is induced in a given lens if the horizontal PD is off. these people are good at what they do(sell frames)but they are not what I would consider an Optician. That being said I'm sure there are folks on this thread who know things that I don't, and think that I'm less of an Optician for it. Most licensed states use the ABO and the NCLE basic certification test as a prerequisite in getting a license. If ABO/NCLE made the career progression program or another yet undeveloped program a prerequisite to taking the test, and strengthen the test to actually test optical knowledge, this would go a long ways to having an standard.
    Paul:cheers:

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan barber View Post
    If anyone is interested, I have a .pdf copy of "System For Ophthalmic Dispensing" that I can send if anyone is looking for great reading material.
    System for Ophthalmic Dispensing is copyrighted. You can buy 2nd editions for under $30.00.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by tx11 View Post
    The public isn't the problem..really...its who hires and employs people to the job.
    I respectfully disagree. The public is precisely who "hires and employs people to do the job". Without their decision to walk through your front door, and hire you and/or your doctor/owner to assist in their eye health care, there is no money period. Doesn't matter if you're dispensing, refracting, or surgery-ing ;). With the public's proverbial eye drawn more an more to the interwebs in their search for eyewear/care, the onus remains on dispensers to use whatever drive they have if they wish to create some means of differentiating in the public eye (such as a new guild or union or whatever).

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    For well over a decade my firm has been administering a hand-on practical for opticianry. There are two points that are applicable to this discussion. First, the test has been described as “too easy” by many who have reviewed it. Second, it has maintained a 50% pass rate throughout the years.

    Interesting statistics:
    When presented a pair of mounted progressive addition lenses:
    65% can neutralize the distance portion of the lens;
    47% can measure the prism thinning;
    55% can analyze the lenses for unwanted prism;
    55% can measure a monocular PD.

    When presented a pair of mounted bifocal lenses:
    50% can determine the add power;
    36% can measure the distance between prism reference points;
    59% can measure the seg height;
    48% can analyze the lenses for unwanted prism.

    40% can calculate vertical imbalance.
    61% can split prism for best cosmetic effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy R. Ferguson View Post
    For well over a decade my firm has been administering a hand-on practical for opticianry. There are two points that are applicable to this discussion. First, the test has been described as “too easy” by many who have reviewed it. Second, it has maintained a 50% pass rate throughout the years.

    Interesting statistics:
    When presented a pair of mounted progressive addition lenses:
    65% can neutralize the distance portion of the lens;
    47% can measure the prism thinning;
    55% can analyze the lenses for unwanted prism;
    55% can measure a monocular PD.

    When presented a pair of mounted bifocal lenses:
    50% can determine the add power;
    36% can measure the distance between prism reference points;
    59% can measure the seg height;
    48% can analyze the lenses for unwanted prism.

    40% can calculate vertical imbalance.
    61% can split prism for best cosmetic effect.
    100% job security. Those of us that have taken the path of education(what ever that forum may be) and certification will always be in demand. We may never be allowed to retire but there will always be a need for us.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy R. Ferguson View Post
    For well over a decade my firm has been administering a hand-on practical for opticianry. There are two points that are applicable to this discussion. First, the test has been described as “too easy” by many who have reviewed it. Second, it has maintained a 50% pass rate throughout the years.

    Interesting statistics:
    When presented a pair of mounted progressive addition lenses:
    65% can neutralize the distance portion of the lens;
    47% can measure the prism thinning;
    55% can analyze the lenses for unwanted prism;
    55% can measure a monocular PD.

    When presented a pair of mounted bifocal lenses:
    50% can determine the add power;
    36% can measure the distance between prism reference points;
    59% can measure the seg height;
    48% can analyze the lenses for unwanted prism.

    40% can calculate vertical imbalance.
    61% can split prism for best cosmetic effect.

    of the 65 percent who can neutralize the distance portion of progressives,can they do all of the other tasks to 100 per cent satisfaction ?

    Obviously not , otherwise the 50 per cent who can determine the add power of a bifocal would be at least 65 percent

    So it comes down to bad teaching and bad students. What is the percentage required to pass ?

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    of the 65 percent who can neutralize the distance portion of progressives,can they do all of the other tasks to 100 per cent satisfaction ?

    Obviously not , otherwise the 50 per cent who can determine the add power of a bifocal would be at least 65 percent

    So it comes down to bad teaching and bad students. What is the percentage required to pass ?
    It only comes down to bad teachers and bad students if we are a "profession" or an apprenticeship. Given that there is no set nationalized standard, we are frame benders in some places, associates in others, opticians here, and licensed opticians there. For the most part you have bad students, who have become bad teachers who are producing more bad students. The best that we can hope to achieve at this point in time is organized chaos.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith LDO View Post
    The best that we can hope to achieve at this point in time is organized chaos.
    I'd rather herd cats than spend any more time trying to organize this chaos.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    I'd rather herd cats than spend any more time trying to organize this chaos.
    You can get more p---y with catnip then an optician with accreditation.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    I'd rather herd cats than spend any more time trying to organize this chaos.
    Well said Wes! as a whole we cant not agree on what an "Optician" is, let alone what these people should know or learn.
    Paul:cheers:

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