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Thread: What progressive has a reading area that goes all the way across the lens

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    What progressive has a reading area that goes all the way across the lens

    Okay, I know there isn't one but a friend told me her aunt got new glasses and the reading area goes all the way across the bottom. She said they were bifocals but had no lines. Aunt said they were new and expensive.

    I tried to to explain there was no such thing without a line and I can tell she didn't believe me.

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    Well, what is the "A" of the frame. I have used the, Shamir Duo, on at least two dozen patients who love it. I've put a few in a 46 round and they had a similar experience. They are "no-line" bifocals, not to be confused with progressives.
    Last edited by Paul Smith LDO; 09-10-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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    One eye sees, the other feels. OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happylady View Post
    Okay, I know there isn't one but a friend told me her aunt got new glasses and the reading area goes all the way across the bottom. She said they were bifocals but had no lines. Aunt said they were new and expensive.

    I tried to to explain there was no such thing without a line and I can tell she didn't believe me.
    If it really was a progressive, then it's the elephant's trunk problem. The misinformed or lying optician should apologize to the ophthalmic optical world.

    Look for new friends.
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    Were they talking about a Computer/Occupational lens similar to the Shamir Office? These are the only types of "progressives" I know that have a really wide reading area.

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    One eye sees, the other feels. OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Zab View Post
    Were they talking about a Computer/Occupational lens similar to the Shamir Office? These are the only types of "progressives" I know that have a really wide reading area.
    Like this? (Contour plots are .25 D steps)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Office Astig plot +2.50.png  
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    Friend called them bifocals(but lay people often call progressives bifocals) but when I asked if they has a line insisted they didn't and then called them progressives. Said aunt used for distance and near so they weren't just readers.

    She he said aunt was given a choice of a progressive with a smaller reading area and this one that goes all the way across.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    Like this? (Contour plots are .25 D steps)
    I just referred to the Office as a reference to any and all intermediate lens designs. As far as wide reading areas in progressive-type lenses they are going to be the widest I have seen though none would go completely across in a definite sense of expression.

    Admittedly I have very hard time wrapping my head around a contour plot. ("More lines=crazier contours" is pretty much how my mind handles them.)

    Happylady - That was my best guess but it doesn't sound like what she was speaking about. I don't know of anything like that.

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    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    So your friend's Aunt has discovered The PAL Holy Grail? We gotta know what it is!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLG View Post
    So your friend's Aunt has discovered The PAL Holy Grail? We gotta know what it is!
    Yes! Yes! Why have all the lens manufactures hidden it from me!? I could sell the heck out of it.

    I told friend it wasn't possible and even drew her a picture, but I think she believes her aunt.
    Last edited by Happylady; 09-10-2014 at 10:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happylady View Post
    Friend called them bifocals(but lay people often call progressives bifocals) but when I asked if they has a line insisted they didn't and then called them progressives. Said aunt used for distance and near so they weren't just readers.

    She he said aunt was given a choice of a progressive with a smaller reading area and this one that goes all the way across.
    Bet she had a choice between a bad frame and a good frame too,haha!

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    The panamic had a really wide reading area, but that's no longer available. It could have been an office or maybe an antifatigue lens? I most often hear people refer to progressives as tri-focals, It may have been an executive bifocal. Tough call with so little information, im just throwing darts.

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    I've heard good things about the Varilux S Series
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    Quote Originally Posted by scriptfiller View Post
    I've heard good things about the Varilux S Series
    I use the S lens and I have to be honest, its not Christmas everywhere you look. Its a beautiful lens don't get me wrong but don't believe the hype, it still has distortion in the periphery and even with a +1.25 add it does not span across the lens. When you talk about the lens, as wonderful as it is and as informed as your pt may be if they have done their homework, it's important to manage their expectations ESPECIALLY on an expensive lens like this.

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    I agree. The "S" are very good lenses but between the ads and a coworker who tends to "oversell" some products I've had to deal with some very disappointed patients. They expect that lenses this expensive will have zero distortion anywhere they look. Kind of like the Crizal tv spots that make them think the lenses never get dirty and will be magically dry when they walk in from the rain.

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    My guess- The aunt is a natural head turner not eye mover and not to fussy with what's "good enough" to read. And the optician did a spot on fitting!

    Or she's illiterate.

    I can get the same feeling out of several of my progressives as long as I don't strain in my eyes movement away from the zones and let my head turn naturally to what I want to see. Then again I'm not to fussy with what I expect to get.

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    Is it in the realm of possibility that this is a digital progressive specifically designed for a narrow small frame?

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    Looking at one of Jim Sheedy's PAL papers from 2006, the widest near zone (+2.00 add constrained by .50 DC limits with a reading depth of 16mm) general purpose PAL was the Shamir Piccolo at about 10mm. I then used this formula to determine the reading field size at 40cm.

    MQ = (MC * AB) / AC

    MQ = Width or height through segment
    MC = Distance from fixation point to center of rotation
    AB = Segment diameter - pupil size
    AC = Distance from segment to center of rotation (vertex distance + center of rotation)

    If the object distance is 400mm, near zone width is 10mm, a pupil size of 7m
    m, and a typical stop distance of 27mm (BVD + COR), the result is 427 * 3 /27 = 47.4mm. This corresponds well with my subjective test below.

    Looking at a newspaper with one pair of my PALs, I can see, without turning my head, under very good light, about two columns clearly when I point my nose between the two columns.

    That's the best performance I've seen from a general purpose PAL that also has very good distance peripheral vision. That includes blind tests that I've conducted that include the Varilux S, Zeiss Individual, Shamir Autograph, and many other free-form and semifinshed PALs.

    Most PALs that I've tried have corridors that are a tad to long, reducing the usable width to about one column, primarily due to the lack of plus power and the unwanted astigmatism.

    I have slightly larger than average pupils, +2.25 add, and a moderate myope.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails columns newspaper.jpg  
    Last edited by Robert Martellaro; 08-31-2016 at 06:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    If it really was a progressive, then it's the elephant's trunk problem. The misinformed or lying optician should apologize to the ophthalmic optical world.

    Look for new friends.
    Well said

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    Not going to look for new friends! She didn't say she didn't believe me, it was just the feeling I got. When I told her it wasn't possible, she said "well, that's what she said."

    Aunts in her mid 50's so it isn't a case of a very low add, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happylady View Post
    When I told her it wasn't possible, she said "well, that's what she said."
    Sounds like the "optician" believed the marketing from one of the designers propaganda brochures. It's easy to miss qualifiers like "virtually edge to edge" lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Sounds like the "optician" believed the marketing from one of the designers propaganda brochures. It's easy to miss qualifiers like "virtually edge to edge" lines.
    I think you got it here, that's probably what happened. But you would think the aunt would notice that the reading doesn't go all the way across!

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    Found Them!


    They were in the drawer with the unbreakable glasses, the ones with the LIFETIME guarantee!

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    Not only unbreakable but SCRATCH PROOF!

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    Although it is possible to offer reading edge to edge in a progressive, you would have almost no effective distance zone or intermediate even in free form... and the peripheral distortion would be enormous.

    RE: the S series, its the worst progressive I have ever worn, and even with my 1.50 add I had almost zero reading width.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    Although it is possible to offer reading edge to edge in a progressive, you would have almost no effective distance zone or intermediate even in free form... and the peripheral distortion would be enormous.

    RE: the S series, its the worst progressive I have ever worn, and even with my 1.50 add I had almost zero reading width.
    I have a pair of "S" FIT, and I agree that the reading area is smaller than others. I do have a +2.50 add, though.
    I have had very enthusiastic success with "S" though, from many clients. Those who feared adaptation or who have vertigo LOVE them!

    I did have to use a "subjective" PD measurement to get to a good reading centration. You may have to as well.

    B

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