Horizon II : Optigods Unite!

[hawaiioptician]

Aloha!

Sorry for the strange post title, trying to get your attention so I made it sounds like a movie title. Anyway, as usual, I need your (the optigods) wisdom.

I'm looking for an edger. I'm trying to start a small (initially) finish lens lab. I don't have 12 to 20,000 bucks to drop on a good quality patternless edger. Ive started looking at some ancient horizons, but don't know if its really feasible, since I know NOTHING about patterned edgers in general or the horizon series specifically. I just know I can get something that's been touted by many of you in the past as a reliable work horse for 3 to 5 grand.

My.main concern is the length of time and breakage associated with the requisite patterns. Don't get me wrong, the optician (since retired) I did my apprenticeship under forgot more about optics than I'll ever know, but I'm a very competent technician. I still have concerns that making patterns is either going to take an absurdly long time, or my breakage rate will sky rocket with gaps or sizing issues. Literally ANY insight you guys can provide to this or to the general quality of working with a horizon edger would be GREATLY appreciated, as I've only worked with 6 and 7E's before.

They have trouble with smaller B sizes from what I hear, and I'm assuming they cannot groove or polish lenses. And when trying to appraise the quality, I know I'm looking for signs the unit was earned and maintained well, but there are also cut counters in these babies, right?

There also seems go be an abundance of horizon IIs available but not too many IIIs, and I don't know why or if it really matters. I have found one unit thats been retrofitted to trace... But I'm somewhat skeptical on that and wondered if you had some insight there as well; my first car had a lot of after market mods made to it, and I don't think they all actually improved its performance.

As always, I am in your debt for whatever experience and insight you all provide.

Thanks

Zack

[Boldt]

I don't know much of anything about the horizon, but I've fallen in love with both the Santineli and Briot edger lines. I think they have a price point where you are looking, they are compact and have minimal maintenance. I started on a Spartan and then had the "JOY" of working on a professional (almost never goes down, but forget about auto anything.) and was amazed with both of the edgers I've used in the non-corporate world.

[Hayde]

Aloha, Zack!

Don't have any experience on Horizon either...like Boldt I've known Santineli and Briot. From experience, I fret you may be walking into a costly problem rolling the dice on any sort of used or old modeled machine. You need to have a crystal clear vision of the lenses you intend to cut first and headhunt more than a few very experienced lab guys to zero in on your needs. (This is a tough crowd from whom to distill any consensus out of all that confident opining. Good luck!)

An older model (even a new machine by a good manufacturer) may have a hard time gripping lenses with modern AR treatments. A simple oversight like that can be a disasterous miscalculation in your Cost-of-Goods business model.

Santinelli offered a trial period of using a new edger before committing to a purchase at my last lab job. If I had it do over again, I'd have urged the doc more to take them up on it. Perhaps a used machine makes a bad result and a learning experience more affordable. But if you can't afford a mistake, I'd wait and save up the money for a new machine and use that time for additional research.

Just friendly advise from a guy who's seen it turn ugly...best wishes that your situation turns out better! Keep us posted!

[Uncle Fester]

Buy the Horizon 2 for strictly simple stock stuff. Mark up your jobs 10 more bucks to cover the edging fee for everything else and let the bigger lab make them while you save the 15K for a proper used edger.

[scriptfiller]

What about bumping your budget a little to 6-8K and getting a refurbished 4T/6E combo? Remember the H2 requires compressed air. I run the aforementioned combo and do 99% of my work on it, been doing so for 15 years now.

[Speed]

Contact this guy. puts out a list monthly. BarryShepard@verizon.net

[coupe]

www.patternless.com leo hadley . They supply re-conditioned units, of great value and quality. They offer leasing terms and unlimited assistance.

[chaoticneutral]

Soooo I worked with the horizon 2 for three years or so. It was actually a remarkable machine. Yes it requires compressed air to chuck and unchuck. It also requires a compliment of patterns you will need and god help you if you forget to flip your pattern for OS. You will end up with two ODs. The blades have a clearly marked V bevel with a red line so you can choose where to put it. The thickness guage is easy enough to use as long as you are steady and slow with it. STEADY AND SLOW. Don't push your lenses they will explode......or your blade will explode and then youll be thanking your lucky stars that you had the saftey shield down. LOL I tried cutting a -20 - 2 on that. It wouldn't block properly on the santinelli. I was just about on size and i rushed it making my Beautiful high index bi concave lens that I made on a 108 generator explode into little tiny peices....LOL good times. Santinelly is wonderful WHEN IT WORKS. once its out of alignment or off calibration my god its a bear to get everything set back the way it was. Lots of tears shed and calls to your local friar and the santinelly help desk. You may want something water driven that has a frame tracer which reduces your need for patterns in house. The horizon 2 is a good machine, low maintenance vacuum it out and keep some extra blades for when they dull or explode. Get a good soldering iron for basic repairs. We had some wires come loose and fixed it ourselves. Feels good when you can fix stuff yourself. Good luck!