How to compete with on-line optical businesses ............................

[Fezz]

You are missing something Fezz and Mr Ryser has brought up an excellent topic: How to Compete With On-line Opticals .

I could not disagree more!

I am sure that he is enjoying the Alexa ratings and website traffic!

Have fun worrying about the sky falling!

[idispense]

It's called the insane dot.com bubble. Greedy investors like "disruptive technology". For every Apple or Amazon there are about a billion failures.

That doesn't explain the logical way they achieved the market penetration and sales volume. It doesn't matter who lost money or failed, it's important to know how it was achieved. Would you care to focus on specifics of achieving the volume and offer how they did it ?

[Golfnorth]

That doesn't explain the logical way they achieved the market penetration and sales volume. It doesn't matter who lost money or failed, it's important to know how it was achieved. Would you care to focus on specifics of achieving the volume and offer how they did it ?

Please educate us oh wise one!

[idispense]

I could not disagree more!

I am sure that he is enjoying the Alexa ratings and website traffic!

Have fun worrying about the sky falling!

You are right Fezz, as usual.

[idispense]

For anyone that has an interest in the marketing techniques:

if you wanted to buy contacts it's most likely that you might Google the words "contact lens"

Try it yourself. What's the first ad or result on the top of your page ? How did it get to the top of the page ?

[edKENdance]

Google Adwords?

[Den]

How did it get to the top of the page ?

magic SEO?))

[Hayde]

Interesting article on the subject of 'debundling': http://www.the-american-interest.com...-ivory-towers/

It would be easy to plug in 'eyeglasses' in here for horse-and-buggies, phone service, hospitals, or higher ed. It's not an unreasonable line of inquiry.

How one tackles the question of 'how to compete with online' falls squarely on one question: what's the 'true' value of an optician? If one thinks opticians ARE redundant middle men, then there's no defense against the glorious online future.

If one thinks otherwise--that good glasses cannot be reliably made without well-trained opticians squaring the circles (before &/or after frame selection,) then the market will find a stable orbit around that truth to whatever degree it is true.

I like this thread; the thought experiment is healthy. But I do also think the 'online' subject has a general presence on the boards greater than it deserves...a constant drumbeat of anxiety that might make a reader think we're having a crisis of doubt of our own value to the eyecare!

No doubt our future professional lives will have a lot more 'internet' in it. What shape that takes we're a long way from gauging. There's quite a few more shoes to drop onto the whole "online optical" market that ought to curb its enthusiasm. I see rapid growth statistics, I think most of them are 'flash in the pan.' Will the competitive pressure go away? Nope. Nor should it. But can Warby Parker convince the world entire brick and morter opticians are redundant middle men? Only if it were true. But since I see a fair bit of their after-frame sale lens fulfilment.... Of all the thing to keep me up at night, WP ain't it.

[idispense]

Google Adwords?

You are on the right track but it was more direct.

They purchased the exclusive rights to the keywords "contact lens" by buying them from Alta Vista. I stand to be corrected but I think this may have been before any one realized the words had value.

Now any time someone types in " contact lens" or variants the CC ad banner comes up right at the top.

No magic just excellent well thought out logical marketing.

[Joe Zewe]

Those of you worried about online are focused on the wrong threat. If you read the Vision Council studies, independents are growing faster than chains. Onlines are still a very small % of the market. The absolute growth for independents is greater than the growth in onlines. Lasik is the only eyewear segment that is contracting. Worry about your local competition and focus on doing a better job servicing your customers. Go after more private pay and when successful drop your worst manage care plans. Focus on buying eyewear products that maximize profits/volumes and please your customers. Online should be a concern with respect to a long term strategy, but do not overreact at this time.

[Joe Zewe]

Regarding how online businesses get to the top of a web search, you should read up on SEO (search engine optimization) and Google AdWords.

On a google search, the first three page links listed at the top of the search page are paid ads. Also, the pages listed on the side margins of the page are paid ads. You click on this link and the advertiser who bought the ad is charged a click fee. These are purchased through google adwords based upon the value of the keyword search. If you type in "online eyewear" in your Google search and you click on ad,, the advertiser will pay something like $1.50 for the click. The amount the advertiser pays is determined by the demand for the search term. Google has very sophisticated analytic software that controls the setting of these prices. Google has a dashboard that advertisers use to bid on keywords that allow the advertiser to establish budgets, focus on geographic regions, etc.

After the three paid searches on a Google search page, the most popular pages are listed and getting on the first page of a search is the holy grail of SEO. If you can get listed on page one just below the paid searches, you get what are essentially free clicks. Google determines the order websites are listed based upon proprietary algorithms that take into account the pages popularity and visits, the content on the site, frequency content is revised, mentions of the site on other pages, link backs to your site and many many other factors. The software is sophisticated to prevent websites from gaming the system. SEO involves techniques that will allow our website to get listed near the top. SEO techniques include driving traffic to your site, refreshing information, getting mentioned in the media, getting linkbacks from other popular sites, and many other time consuming and expensive undertakings. When Warby Parker is featured in the New York Times or GQ Magazine, that is search engine gold. Popular bloggers linking to your site is another good thing.

If you are not on the first few pages of google or if you do not buy adwords, your site will not be found by people who use generic keyword searches to find products. Adwords are a very expensive undertaking. For most opticals, getting on the first page is next to impossible. You will never get the traffic, PR, link backs etc. to compete with the established sites that spend big money on a web strategy. However, you should still have a website that people will find should they do a local search or search specifically on your shop's name.

SEO is a complicated subject that people write books on. SEO is not a core competency for most opticals. Unless you are prepared to raise hundreds of thousands of $$, do not plan on getting into the online eyewear business.

[Fezz]

Thank you for a very informative, concise, educational, and reasonable post!

I really appreciate the education!

[Chris Ryser]

Lets show some respect to Mr Ryser and continue this discussion in a focused manner because there is one thing that on-liners already know how to do better than us

they know how to dissect a problem into its component parts and FOCUS on the solution !

Thanks idispense, I have respected your logical approach and dissecting them for a long time, and appreciate that you jumped into this discussion.

[Chris Ryser]

I could not disagree more!

I am sure that he is enjoying the Alexa ratings and website traffic!

Have fun worrying about the sky falling!

As a moderator on the OptiBoard your comments are no moderation whatsoever, but rather a bad
try to derail an interesting thread.

[idispense]

Interesting article on the subject of 'debundling': http://www.the-american-interest.com...-ivory-towers/

It would be easy to plug in 'eyeglasses' in here for horse-and-buggies, phone service, hospitals, or higher ed. It's not an unreasonable line of inquiry.

How one tackles the question of 'how to compete with online' falls squarely on one question: what's the 'true' value of an optician? If one thinks opticians ARE redundant middle men, then there's no defense against the glorious online future.

If one thinks otherwise--that good glasses cannot be reliably made without well-trained opticians squaring the circles (before &/or after frame selection,) then the market will find a stable orbit around that truth to whatever degree it is true.

I like this thread; the thought experiment is healthy. But I do also think the 'online' subject has a general presence on the boards greater than it deserves

What was the first technique that CC used to get known fast...a constant drumbeat of anxiety that might make a reader think we're having a crisis of doubt of our own value to the eyecare!

No doubt our future professional lives will have a lot more 'internet' in it. What shape that takes we're a long way from gauging. There's quite a few more shoes to drop onto the whole "online optical" market that ought to curb its enthusiasm. I see rapid growth statistics, I think most of them are 'flash in the pan.' Will the competitive pressure go away? Nope. Nor should it. But can Warby Parker convince the world entire brick and morter opticians are redundant middle men? Only if it were true. But since I see a fair bit of their after-frame sale lens fulfilment.... Of all the thing to keep me up at night, WP ain't it.

Thank you for contributing this article on de bundling HAYDE, I read it and it's excellent. Thank you, and I look forward to more comment.

One thing, I would expand on is this:

Who would have thought it possible that a disruptive technology could remove wired telephones from the walls in our homes and relocate those boring wired phones into our pockets ? Who would have thought pay telephones on street corners would disappear? Who would have thought that the encyclopedia business would disappear because of a computer and cell phone ?

In light of the above, can you really justify this statement ?

"But I do also think the 'online' subject has a general presence on the boards greater than it deserves "

[HindSight2020]

To the best of my recollection they had access to millions of dollars of investors money to spend freely on massive advertising campaigns and free eyewear promotions. Is this incorrect?

Correct, they had boat loads of investors money. CC's goal from the beginning was to capture as much market share as they could at any cost; giving away free glasses and undercutting retailers with crappy lenses and frames is the only way and it worked.

Their business plan was never to make profit, it was to capture market share in vast volumes, get noticed and get acquired. That's when the payout for shareholders would occur and it did. I posted that Essilor would purchase Coastal about two years before it happened; that was an easy one to project.

To any independent out there, don't compete with onliners, carve your own path and distinguish yourself with quality, service and value. Don't follow, always lead.

Take any advice from idispense with a grain of salt; he blames on-liners, governing bodies and legislation for everything. One has to look in the mirror from time to time and wonder.

[idispense]

Fezz:

Have you read Hayde's contribution on de bundling ?

Have you considered that none of this conversation has anything to do with the sky falling in but rather it has to do with normal economic evolution ?

This is a discussion on modern day competing and the techniques being used which many of us are unfamiliar with.

Shouldn't we learn these techniques, especially if they are attracting customers?

Fezz, do you remember the old way of cataract surgery, and the resulting Welsh Four drop lenses ? Would you like to ignore the technology that changed that ?

Let's focus , not on the merits of selling on-line, whether it should happen or not , let's focus on the tools used to be successful to do it so we can benefit and redeploy those tools.

[idispense]

Correct, they had boat loads of investors money. CC's goal from the beginning was to capture as much market share as they could at any cost; giving away free glasses and undercutting retailers with crappy lenses and frames is the only way and it worked.

Their business plan was never to make profit, it was to capture market share in vast volumes, get noticed and get acquired. That's when the payout for shareholders would occur and it did. I posted that Essilor would purchase Coastal about two years before it happened; that was an easy one to project.

To any independent out there, don't compete with onliners, carve your own path and distinguish yourself with quality, service and value. Don't follow, always lead.

Take any advice from idispense with a grain of salt; he blames on-liners, governing bodies and legislation for everything. One has to look in the mirror from time to time and wonder.

Almost an excellent post Hindsight.

Is this statement not self contradicting : "Their business plan was never to make profit, it was to capture market share in vast volumes, get noticed and get acquired. That's when the payout for shareholders would occur and it did." ?

Could you elaborate on the financing and the ways to acquire the necessary start up capital ? This is also a technique required to compete that we need to understand to compete.

Thank you

[idispense]

Regarding how online businesses get to the top of a web search, you should read up on SEO (search engine optimization) and Google AdWords.

On a google search, the first three page links listed at the top of the search page are paid ads. Also, the pages listed on the side margins of the page are paid ads. You click on this link and the advertiser who bought the ad is charged a click fee. These are purchased through google adwords based upon the value of the keyword search. If you type in "online eyewear" in your Google search and you click on ad,, the advertiser will pay something like $1.50 for the click. The amount the advertiser pays is determined by the demand for the search term. Google has very sophisticated analytic software that controls the setting of these prices. Google has a dashboard that advertisers use to bid on keywords that allow the advertiser to establish budgets, focus on geographic regions, etc.

After the three paid searches on a Google search page, the most popular pages are listed and getting on the first page of a search is the holy grail of SEO. If you can get listed on page one just below the paid searches, you get what are essentially free clicks. Google determines the order websites are listed based upon proprietary algorithms that take into account the pages popularity and visits, the content on the site, frequency content is revised, mentions of the site on other pages, link backs to your site and many many other factors. The software is sophisticated to prevent websites from gaming the system. SEO involves techniques that will allow our website to get listed near the top. SEO techniques include driving traffic to your site, refreshing information, getting mentioned in the media, getting linkbacks from other popular sites, and many other time consuming and expensive undertakings. When Warby Parker is featured in the New York Times or GQ Magazine, that is search engine gold. Popular bloggers linking to your site is another good thing.

If you are not on the first few pages of google or if you do not buy adwords, your site will not be found by people who use generic keyword searches to find products. Adwords are a very expensive undertaking. For most opticals, getting on the first page is next to impossible. You will never get the traffic, PR, link backs etc. to compete with the established sites that spend big money on a web strategy. However, you should still have a website that people will find should they do a local search or search specifically on your shop's name.

SEO is a complicated subject that people write books on. SEO is not a core competency for most opticals. Unless you are prepared to raise hundreds of thousands of $$, do not plan on getting into the online eyewear business.

Thank you for your informative post Joe.

I would only mention, we are discussing the techniques used by on-liners to acquire customers, so that we may understand these tools from the perspective of how we might learn to compete better. We are not discussing the merits of entering the online eyewear business.

Can you explain then how a B & M can utilize these same SEO techniques ?

Thank you

[Johns]

Fezz:

Have you read Hayde's contribution on de bundling ?

Have you considered that none of this conversation has anything to do with the sky falling in but rather it has to do with normal economic evolution ?

This is a discussion on modern day competing and the techniques being used which many of us are unfamiliar with.

Shouldn't we learn these techniques, especially if they are attracting customers?

Fezz, do you remember the old way of cataract surgery, and the resulting Welsh Four drop lenses ? Would you like to ignore the technology that changed that ?

Let's focus , not on the merits of selling on-line, whether it should happen or not , let's focus on the tools used to be successful to do it so we can benefit and redeploy those tools.

I think Fezz's point is that many of us are in private practice environments, working hard (and succeeding) at serving the needs of our customers, making healthy profits, and continuing to build these practices into strong, viable, profitable businesses. There are opticians, ODs, MDs, and managers, that have never given a second thought to Lens Crafters (One-Hour Service will KILL) us, Wal-Mart Optical (Their prices will KILL us), Y-2K, VSP, Eyemed, America's Best, Online "opticals", digital printing, etc...

Yes, these are all issues that have, and will affect our businesses, but they don't necessarily have to affect the way we do business, so long as we concentrate on what WE do best, and not what others are doing to us.

Those of you worried about online are focused on the wrong threat. If you read the Vision Council studies, independents are growing faster than chains. Onlines are still a very small % of the market.

Many of these practices are growing without ever knowing/caring about bundling/unbundling, capture rates, competing with onliners, mass merchandisers, and such. Yes, these are important issues to many, but they can also detract from the focus of running our OWN practices. Often, if you keep looking to the sky, you stumble in the potholes.

Joe, like many of us, is in the thick of the industry, and unlike many of us, has a unique perspective of it, as he comes from the wholesale side. I agree that his post laid out a clear, concise, explanation on how the online preferences are made.

Good discussions all around.

[idispense]

magic SEO?))

Yes Den, you are right ! It is a form of SEO , Search Engine Optimization. Sounds like you may have been reading up on it. What are your thoughts on how opticians can utilize this technique ?

It's not magic though, it's just a learning process to understand how to do it.

[idispense]

I think Fezz's point is that many of us are in private practice environments, working hard (and succeeding) at serving the needs of our customers, making healthy profits, and continuing to build these practices into strong, viable, profitable businesses. There are opticians, ODs, MDs, and managers, that have never given a second thought to Lens Crafters (One-Hour Service will KILL) us, Wal-Mart Optical (Their prices will KILL us), Y-2K, VSP, Eyemed, America's Best, Online "opticals", digital printing, etc...

Yes, these are all issues that have, and will affect our businesses, but they don't necessarily have to affect the way we do business, so long as we concentrate on what WE do best, and not what others are doing to us.



Many of these practices are growing without ever knowing/caring about bundling/unbundling, capture rates, competing with onliners, mass merchandisers, and such. Yes, these are important issues to many, but they can also detract from the focus of running our OWN practices. Often, if you keep looking to the sky, you stumble in the potholes.

Joe, like many of us, is in the thick of the industry, and unlike many of us, has a unique perspective of it, as he comes from the wholesale side. I agree that his post laid out a clear, concise, explanation on how the online preferences are made.

Good discussions all around.

Good points Johns, to which I can only add this, should we not have learned how to use a patternless edger or electronic point of sale software ? Were these tools looking to the sky or pot holes or did they help build your practices?

A patternless edger is nothing more than the combination and application of limit switches, stepper motors, shaft encoders and a CPU ..... Should we have squashed that technology and discussion of how to marry each piece to the other ?

[idispense]

You'd need insane volume to stay in business. The "internet pricing with services" model has been tried in my city a couple times. The first one failed miserably. The 2nd attempt can be seen here http://eyego.ca/

It's an ugly concept. You surround yourself with god awful trashy frames, you attract the worst kind of clientele and you need to attract LOTS of them because you're only making what Barry charges for adjustments on a sale. The first one failed because they didn't have the volume so they were stuck in the position of trying to up sell higher end lenses and frames to the cheapskates they were desiring to attract in the first place. Total nightmare.

ed , you are right about needing insane volumes, however insane volumes are achievable with the right tools and techniques to use . Have you read about Warby-Parker and their initial 20,000 back order/waiting list problem ?

Please note, I am not discussing profitability, only the tools and techniques that can produce insane volumes.

[Joe Zewe]

Regarding competing with online opticals, at the present time there is no practical way for an independent retailer to compete by selling glasses online. However, as a retailer you should have a website promoting your practice and its capabilities so that prospective customers can research you and see what you have to offer. You should also use social media (facebook is still probably the best place for a social media presence) to promote your practice.

Your best way to compete is to understand your strengths and how these strengths can make you money. Every practice is different. Some are high price frames/lenses with a high profit per transaction and a low unit volume. Others are lower price high volume practice. Most are somewhere in between. Managed care and patient demographics are two other huge factors. Understand what you have to offer and develop a winnable strategy and go for it. Generally speaking, you cannot be all things to all people. It is very tough to make comparisons between independent practices as no two practices are the same so be wary of copying someone else. What works for someone else might not work for you.

It is very possible that at some point there will be a viable platform where retailers can participate in a website where they can sell frames online direct to the public and bring the customer into the store for proper dispensing and under a scenario where the retailer controls and receives the economic benefit from the transaction. Almost like an ebay or Amazon scenario. Under this scenario, the retailer can describe and differentiate the services they can provide and hopefully make an adequate profit. Hopefully, this can be done in a way that does not result in the next race to the bottom or be an effort by a major player to further control the industry.

[Den]

Sounds like you may have been reading up on it. What are your thoughts on how opticians can utilize this technique ?
It's not magic though.

Yeah, I already know that's it's not magic.:)
It was a little bit suprising for me, that it's kind'a new thing for US opticians.))
When I started to make my web-site, I read a lot of info about how to manage your site, including SEO, too.
Now I can't say that I can use SEO opportunities as good, as skilled SEO developer could do, but when I search web I can clearly see their work.
Just like Neo un Matrix...
Truly saying, it's kind'a hard job to work an optician and studying seo at the same time. Though my site was started along time ago, work on it is going very slowly- because of my primary job- optician...
Think it's not a fantastic result, but for request "repair glasses Kharkiv"- my site is almost on top. This result was reached only with help of SEO.
I wrote texts for this page by myself.

http://vizhuvsyo.com/services/766752

From top 5 of this request in Google- two links are directing to my web-site... That's where you see "Вижу Всё".;)


However, if you want to promote pages that offer to buy contact lenses or frames- I know it will cost a lot of money, because of the high rivalry for this key words... And you can't reach any good results for high-frequency requests only with help of SEO.
That's how I see it from my side.