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Thread: Computer PAL vs. Regular PAL

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    Computer PAL vs. Regular PAL

    When someone wants a computer progressive, do most of you use an actual "computer" PAL or do you just use a regular PAL with intermediate on top and reading on bottom?

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    OptiBoard Professional nicksims's Avatar
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    Use the Zeiss Desk/Office, Essilor Computer, Shamir Office, etc. and NOT a regular PAL just shifted higher. You'll short the patient a better viewing area, expecially in the mid. They'll spend more for the progressives too but get less satisfaction. You'll just get yelled at by the patient! We often suggest and our patients will have both a regular PAL as well as the office/computer pair. More cost and 2 pairs of glasses, but a much better experience for your patient.

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    FT 28 or FT 35

    Or Single Vision

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    OptiBoard Professional OptiBoard Silver Supporter eryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    FT 28 or FT 35

    Or Single Vision
    I second that!!!!
    ~ Erin
    ABOC

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    Some patients prefer the Ft-28/Ft-35 solution but an actual near-variable focus works wonders. Its easy to use, inexpensive, and works quite well. Selling a full PAL for a computer solution, to me, is ridiculous as it isn't giving the wider intermediate and near vision that a true occupational can offer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spex911 View Post
    When someone wants a computer progressive, do most of you use an actual "computer" PAL or do you just use a regular PAL with intermediate on top and reading on bottom?
    I suggest sitting down with a lab or lens rep to have them educate you on the design differences of regular progressive designs and "computer" type progressive styles!

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    I use FT-28s personally for extended computer use and they work fine for me. In fairness, I've not used computer PALs so I may not know what I'm missing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spex911 View Post
    When someone wants a computer progressive, do most of you use an actual "computer" PAL or do you just use a regular PAL with intermediate on top and reading on bottom?
    For desktop monitors, a regular PAL setup as you described, if that's what the client wants, that is, wears PALs in their general purpose eyeglasses and won't/can't tolerate segment lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    I use FT-28s personally for extended computer use and they work fine for me. In fairness, I've not used computer PALs so I may not know what I'm missing.
    All you're missing is the smooth transition from intermediate to near. A FT28 is the preferred solution for those accustomed to wearing segmented multifocals.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    A Chem power layer!

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    I am anxious to try the new DUO lenses for the computer users! Like a flat top without the segment issues, hopefully! :)

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    Had a chat about a month ago with our in house OD about computer/office PALs

    I don't think anyone at my store has ever sold one, however I have sold a few intermediate SV glasses to a few people that had been having problems using reading glasses for computer work.


    I was thinking along the same lines as the OP, that, instead of using computer lens, change the distance to the intermediate rx, then split the add.
    Sounds like a more appropriate way to make such a lens, as the curve variation will be less, and the add will be more gradual.

    Of course this would only work wil people with an add power of +1.50, +2.00, +2.50, or +3.00.

    however, if you do a digital lens, I don't see why this approach would be any less ideal, in terms of patient comfort.

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    Master OptiBoarder mshimp's Avatar
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    We sale either a regular PAL with intermediate on top and near on bottom, or just SV with intermediate. Nowadays we rarely sale a FT with intermediate\reading. And of course we sale SV with reading only.

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    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfnut View Post
    I am anxious to try the new DUO lenses for the computer users! Like a flat top without the segment issues, hopefully! :)
    Good suggestion. This might be another solution (I haven't tried one yet) for desktop monitors; Outstanding material availability, minor or maybe major optical optimizations (work distance and POW), clearer periphery for triple monitors, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by ml43 View Post
    Had a chat about a month ago with our in house OD about computer/office PALs

    I don't think anyone at my store has ever sold one, however I have sold a few intermediate SV glasses to a few people that had been having problems using reading glasses for computer work.
    My dedicated computer eyeglass sales are about the same as my sunglass sales. This could be due to differences in demographics though.

    My recommendation is that we should have 'task specific' eyeglasses on the table when the add @ 40cm is +1.75 or more, the frequency of use is moderate to high, and/or the object position requires posturing.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

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    Shamir Office or FT 35 for current segmented wearers.

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    I love my computer lenses. They are not for distance at all. If you spend a lot of time at the computer, it is the difference of spending that time with a comfortable head position vs setting there with your chin pointing across the room.

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    The practice I work for is about to start selling the Shamir Computer and WorkSpace lenses. In the past our O.D. has always just wrote intermediate Rx with an add cut in half at the bottom and we have sold them our go to Digital PAL. I am a little leery of changing our ways but if the technology is out there and it will be a lot less expensive for the patient why not try it. Is anyone familiar with the Shamir Computer/WorkSpace lenses and what are patient responses to the lens? Also, does the O.D. prescribe a normal Rx (Distance at the top and add at the bottom) and the Shamir design will take care of figuring out where the intermediate portion should be with our measurements? Any help with this would be much appreciated.

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    Fitting the Computer and Workspace is easy, measure at center pupil as you would a traditional Progressive and supply their normal Rx and the lab will do the rest. The final power is calculated based on the add power and which design you choose but you don't have to worry about doing anything special.

    I recently put my mom in a Shamir Office which is pretty much the same and she absolutely loves it, it's cut down on headaches and neck aches and allows her to actually use the computer for more than 20 minutes at a time. The advantage of using a lens specifically designed as an occupational lens is that you get much wider fields of vision as other posters mentioned above.

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    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Perhaps this deserves a new thread, but is there a way to compensate computer lens designs (preferably Shamir Office/Computer/Workspace) for different intermediate viewing distances? I have a pt who really likes his monitor 4 or more feet away. I overrefracted him and found he only wants +0.75 of a full +2.25 add for that distance. I am told you can supply viewing height and maybe distance when ordering the digital computer lenses, but will they really compensate it that much? To get my desired +0.75 at the 50% add MRP I would need a digression of -3.00. I don't see any reason it can't be done, but the labs I've talked to tell me they can't. The solution is simple in FT or manually compensating a progressive, but I don't really want either of those.

    Anyone know how to make what I want happen in a computer lens?

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    Supposedly Shamir does have the software to do this. My experience in providing this information wasn't a good one though. I was getting told by one person at shamir that all I have to do is provide the working distance and they would compensate the power for me. Every time I submitted this information the lab called and had no clue what I was talking about. I sent Shamir an email expressing my frustration and got a phone call pretty soon after from Jerry Thornhill. He said unless the working distance is particularly odd to leave it alone, and if it is an abnormal working distance to just transmit the order with the compensated add power. Supposedly the problem is that in order to compensate the power they have to shut down the generator and start it again running a different program and most labs are unwilling to do this because it would slow down production. That is my experience.

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    Dan, it can be done by manipulating the dynamic power of the lens design with the total near power, it may require adjusting the near RX slightly. I have done this with the Office to the patients satisfaction. Your Shamir lab may try to talk you into the Computer or the Work Space. I've used all three and have more success with the Office, in these situations.
    I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. Mark Twain

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    i use the shamir office lens all the time i tell the lab what power i want at near
    i use prio shazam program to find out the power that i want at the mrp and it tells the lab what power i want at near to grind it works well

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    OptiBoard Professional RT's Avatar
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    Dan Liv: Try Hoya Tact. Can be ordered in .25 diopter steps, instead of just a couple of digressive powers.
    RT

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    What I can't understand is why the degression extends above the primary gaze with these so called computer PALs. This makes sense for general purpose "office" PALs; i.e. desk, greeter, light desktop monitor use, ambulatory, etc., but is incredibly bad form for users of desktop monitors.

    The problem with extending the corridor 5mm to 10mm above the primary gaze is that it significantly narrows the horizontal field at the most important location: when looking at the monitor! Moreover, vertical head movements will also narrow the vertical field at the object plane for the more advanced presbyopes, resulting in fluctuating vision on the primary gaze, and/or blur at the very top and bottom of the screen, especially with very large monitors.

    The only reason I can think of designing the optics this way, except as noted above, is to preclude their use as general purpose lenses, using them "off-label," where ECPs might take advantage of the reduced costs usually associated with these propriety task lenses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    Dan Liv: Try Hoya Tact. Can be ordered in .25 diopter steps, instead of just a couple of digressive powers.
    I used to sell a ton of the Tact but it requires an enormous B to get all the power options and has very limited materials.

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    I sold more "computer" lens for crafts and hobbies than anything. Fisherman who tied fly's, a professional poker player, and anyone who reads.

    Computer eyewear also makes the best readers. For computer and near work only the Seiko PC Wide has the widest computer zone, its edge to edge and it has the same Barrel design as the Surmount (widest portion at the pupil)_ Most computer lenses still have the narrowest zone at the pupil. PC Wide also has great material options, including Transitions.

    For room distance the Shamir Auto II Office is my favorite, it offers the best intermediate control of all the lenses.

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