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Thread: Which Freeform Lab should i buy?

  1. #26
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    From a designers prospective, (atleast IOT's) we can work with any equipment manufacturer, some branded alternatives are more rigid on this so lens choice is important, being a self consumer the name on the box isnt important because you have a captive audience.

    To me the real key is buying the right size machine for your future. Right now you said you run 120-130 jobs per day, I do not know the Panamanian Market but I would image 30-40% of those are PALs. If you plan on doubling your volumes in the next 10 years then by a machine that can handle that volume.

    As far as equipment we have validated, we currently work with Schneider, Satisloh, Coburn, Chemat (DAC) and Optotech.

  2. #27
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    MyCoat installed, calibrated, and coating lenses. Thus far, the 3 pair / hour is holding true. Clarity is great, super-hydrophobic coating is super-slick (to the point of causing some edging problems that we are figuring out how to overcome). We have also done a few mirrors. This is where the MyCoat really shines (pun intended)! With batches of three pair, it doesn't hurt terribly $ much to run a single pair for mirror coating, and larger labs should be able to run most mirror coatings as full batches.

    The install was fairly simple. Two Vision-Ease technicians stayed for the full week to ensure proper calibration, procedures, and performance. They each gave us their cell numbers and told us to text or call whenever we have a question (no phone tree!).

    As with all new equipment, I am sure there will be something to cuss about within the next few weeks. I will let you know when I find out what it is. But I have a hunch that it will quickly resolved. Also, only time will tell when it comes to durability. Many of our lenses end up in the hard rock mining industry, so they will definitely go through their paces.

    We will give it a few months and then bring in the free-form.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqui View Post
    Not entirely true
    Jacqui Please explain, I don't know a single FF lens that doesn't have Schneider approval, and I have a list of approved lenses from every manufacturer, Schneider has the most.

  4. #29
    Underemployed Genius Jacqui's Avatar
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    I know that Shamir is made on almost every system (Coburn is a maybe) IOT is made on all of them, ditto Seiko. It's to the point that if your particular system will do the job properly then the lens company will approve, they want you to sell their lenses.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqui View Post
    I know that Shamir is made on almost every system (Coburn is a maybe) IOT is made on all of them, ditto Seiko. It's to the point that if your particular system will do the job properly then the lens company will approve, they want you to sell their lenses.
    Only if your big enough... for the smaller labs its much more selective.

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    I am looking for a Optical Dynamics Q-2100 Coater.

  7. #32
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    Hi,

    What is the price of the Vision-Ease Mycoat AR Coating

  8. #33
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    Though this is true, as a Cobalt user, I can shed some light on a few things. After being on this platform for a few years now, I need to look at other options.

    First, Cobalt is not qualified for branded designs. Ours is qualified only for OEM designs. If you are looking to produce branded freeform designs, then you will need to look elsewhere.
    Second, the throughout is quite low. 22 jobs per hour is the norm for STP. 15-20 if you grind mixed designs, and closer to 15 if all freeform.
    Third, diamond choices are slim. The diamond is a Schneider, but the carrier is just slightly different. Surface quality is predicated on the secondary diamond.
    Lastly, Coburn is still working on getting the platform qualified for branded freeform.

    Pros: Can run traditional torics, straight to polish, freeform and soft laps (S-foam/p-foam)
    Start up costs are lower than the others
    Minimal use of water, making clean-up easier with less water waste
    Qualified for many OEM freeform lenses

    Cons: Longer calibration and maintenance times. No auto calibration available
    Not qualified for the major branded freeform designs
    Slow platform, restrictive curve ranges
    No engraver on board

    This is a good platform for small labs producing under 100 orders per day. Since this platform can generate traditional work, cut laps, run STP and freeform, it is versatile. Start up costs are low, and being that it can currently produce only OEM brands, the associated click fees are also lower. An outboard engraver is required, however.
    If you are looking to produce branded freeform, need higher throughput, and/or need higher RX ranges, then this may not be the platform for you.

  9. #34
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    I thought the Cobalt was a pretty impressive system given the price point, footprint, etc. I believe it has been validated for several branded designs.

    The list of “Pros” is spot on. The “Cons” list may be a bit dated.
    · I know they are testing auto-calibration at customer sites right now.
    · The branded designs I addressed above.
    · I have heard that on-board engraving is in the works.

    You are right in saying that it is not as fast as some of the larger, more expensive systems so it may not be the best system for super high volume labs.
    This system is ideal for medium to small labs looking to compete in the FreeForm arena.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by gweinrib View Post
    I thought the Cobalt was a pretty impressive system given the price point, footprint, etc. I believe it has been validated for several branded designs.

    The list of “Pros” is spot on. The “Cons” list may be a bit dated.
    · I know they are testing auto-calibration at customer sites right now.
    · The branded designs I addressed above.
    · I have heard that on-board engraving is in the works.

    You are right in saying that it is not as fast as some of the larger, more expensive systems so it may not be the best system for super high volume labs.
    This system is ideal for medium to small labs looking to compete in the FreeForm arena.
    Well. I thought so, too. Cost was a factor in purchasing the system originally. After using the platform for 3 years, I replaced one of our Cobalts with a VFT-Orbit. Why? No autocalibration, no premium FF validation, reliability and speed. My one VFT-Orbit can process 300 surface jobs a day, including all FF and a higher RX range than both Cobalts combined. I have no jobs left over at the end of the day on the belt any longer. We are also a heartbeat away from Zeiss FF validation, which means that I will no longer need to outsource premium Zeiss FF soon. BTW, my second Cobalt is a paperweight. The Y and the Z motors are shot, and we have yet to have a service call after 1 week.

    The Cobalt system may be a good fit for small volume labs interested in a one-machine-does all, as long as you want to run OEM FF and have the time to manually calibrate it every 8 hours. But I would look at the Schneider or SatisLoh if you want to, or plan to produce branded FF products. I wouldn't recommend it for a lab producing more than 15 jobs per hour, though.

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    The LMS software guy told Coburn is a nightmare. LOH is big E. Someone just told me of this. http://www.ncrxopticalsolutions.com/ I know nothing of these guys.

  12. #37
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    Optotech???

  13. #38
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    What is the price these days for a complete digital FF set up that can produce about 200 pairs a day? Half digital and half regular? Mostly poly.
    Generator, Polishers, Engraver, Marker, Verifier?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LENNY View Post
    What is the price these days for a complete digital FF set up that can produce about 200 pairs a day? Half digital and half regular? Mostly poly.
    Generator, Polishers, Engraver, Marker, Verifier?
    You'd be looking around $600K, give or take

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post
    You'd be looking around $600K, give or take
    And if you would want to be covered by havaing 2 of each units in case one goes down?

  16. #41
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    new FF lab

    hi
    Has anyone heard of a good reason not to spend 650k euro of a new lab doing 80 pairs a day.

    they provide a strong lms with free lds therefore no click fees.

    Schneider is more expensive and has click fees.

    I would appreciate any feedback.

    Thank you

  17. #42
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    Lenny,
    You would be looking at an additional 400K for a third polisher and a second generator. Satis and Schneider are very reliable. Unless you are doing more than 200 obs per day, I can't say that this would be a wise investment. Ours will process 300 per day per 10 hours, so should it go down, we could catch up fairly quickly. We also have contingency programs in place just in case. As our business grows, I will consider a second generator, but not until we hit at least 350 per day.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordechai View Post
    hi
    Has anyone heard of a good reason not to spend 650k euro of a new lab doing 80 pairs a day.
    You would do better by outsourcing for 80/day. There will not be enough ROI for that low a volume. Invest in good edgers instead, and have your surface work done as uncuts.

  19. #44
    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lensmanmd View Post
    You would do better by outsourcing for 80/day. There will not be enough ROI for that low a volume. Invest in good edgers instead, and have your surface work done as uncuts.
    Even that might not be worth it! Remote edging!

  20. #45
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    I have a robotic digital polisher I'm selling, PM me if you need one.

  21. #46
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    Hello all , any updates on new players , better machines for a new FF lab, around 80 jobs a day, thanks

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