so the v.s.p. now has its "premier program" which encourages ECPs to sell lots and lots of marchon frames...which we prefer not to do.
it seems that we may be getting a smaller amount of new patients finding our office over the past month from the "v.s.p. list" since we are not labeled as a "premier" provider.
has anyone else noticed this?
or, if you are a premier provider, have you noticed a significantly higher number of new v.s.p. patients recently?
Exactly the point of their Permier program. Why would they direct patients to practices that don't want to utilize their frames or materials? Instead, why not direct them to those that do? Especially if the patient has an additional allowance good towards a Marchon or Altair product. So in the end, your mindset is exactly what has driven this program to reality.Originally Posted by ak47
If that's the case, it would prove their intent is becoming a reality.it seems that we may be getting a smaller amount of new patients finding our office over the past month from the "v.s.p. list" since we are not labeled as a "premier" provider.
We are listed as Premier and IMO, it's the way to go if you can qualify. Not only do you get higher reimbursements $10-14 for most patients but Federal patients with upwards of an additional $50 allowance will yield upwards $20-24 per fit. Remember, you're getting the additional $10 plus the difference in frame allowance. It adds up.
Not sure if it's exactly driving patients to us yet, but our capture rate is noticeably higher and we are seeing patients who want to use that additional allowance. From what we were told, the idea is to drive more patients to us. Makes sense as they don't want to drive a patient with an extra frame allowance to practices that they can't use it at easily. Time will tell.
Last edited by racethe1320; 01-28-2014 at 08:15 PM.
In my area of the country I am hearing of more and more providers severing ties with VSP, for obvious reasons. If the practice has multiple ODs and they are knocking out 3 exams an hour and you want to be a VSP/Marchon showroom, and if the business is not being run as a medical model, then perhaps its for you. I would much rather spend my time with patients who understand the difference of a complete set of quality made eyewear and I get to practice the profession that I went to school for. If you build the VSP showroom, they will come.
Last edited by Paul Smith LDO; 02-12-2014 at 03:51 PM.
You can't run both effectively and serve the patient with quality eyewear? We have both MD's and OD's in our practice and do exactly what you're indicating. It's all a matter of how you set things up.
You can't control the quality of VSP work. For the few VSP members that I see, I have to inform them of the benchwork and steer them to frames I believe that VSP can do without too much trouble. That to me does not speak well of a service being provided by an HMO. To your point ak 47, we are seeing fewer members as new members are being referred to the "premiers." Not that I am complaining.
Last edited by Paul Smith LDO; 01-29-2014 at 07:47 PM.
That holds true for any job you send outside your office. If it's sent to a lab, you rely on their QC. IMO, having to send out a job doesn't speak ill of the providers plan.
Disagree here. If you do not like the QC at your choosen lab, you can change your lab! I'm not saying that your precious VSP1(whichever one you choose) is a bad lab, but given the direction the Choice plan is going, you do not get this option if you do not agree with the quality being produced.
I am also going to (futile attempt) disagree with your statement a few back that it is right to direct patients to Premier offices just because they sell a larger quantity of Marchon frames. It is not conducive to fair trade and leans toward monopolistic tendencies, taking choice away from the consumer, as well as the retailer. I get that it is good for VSP, and for the "Premier" provider, but I do not believe it is good or fair. I could go on about this subject, but I think it would be a wasted effort and a waste of time.
Agree (w/ Rich) 100%. A private lab of your choosing you can hold accountable, and if they don't meet your expectations you can fire them and find a different lab. With VSP, Davis, Spectera, now Eyemed, you have no choice, and are stuck with whatever you receive.
I see your point, but you don't have to change labs. VSP has never told me no on a redo or not come through with quality on jobs we send them. They aren't my precious lab, I'm just saying, you don't have to change as the grass isn't always greener. In the end, they do a good job for us yes, but they will do just about anything we ask thus no need to change. In the end, it's their subsidised plan and it is still an option to take said plan. As a service provider, we all can choose not to take VSP. They don't have to give you an option...although in some states I know they do.
Fair trade doesn't apply as they aren't taking away choice. The consumer can forgo the $20-50 additional allowance and no practices are forced to carry Marchon. You can opt out and just continue on with business as usual. It's not monopolistic, they allow patients to choose to go anywhere in or out of network, premier or non premier. Retailers aren't force to participate in any loyalty programs either. It's not a futile attempt to disagree, I enjoy the banter, but it's not making much sense to use phrases such as "not fair" or "monopoly" when you they don't apply.I am also going to (futile attempt) disagree with your statement a few back that it is right to direct patients to Premier offices just because they sell a larger quantity of Marchon frames. It is not conducive to fair trade and leans toward monopolistic tendencies, taking choice away from the consumer, as well as the retailer.
You're over thinking it. It's a loyalty program. I go to the grocery store and get their store branded products for less money than brand name. I get additional gas savings using their charge card vs my other cards. I the consumer have a choice in both cases. Doctors too, make the choices. Pretty simple. Open to discussing and it's not wasted effort as it helps others here. Let's just keep the talk in-line with the situation.I get that it is good for VSP, and for the "Premier" provider, but I do not believe it is good or fair. I could go on about this subject, but I think it would be a wasted effort and a waste of time.
Do you really think VSP is going to provide an additional frame allowance towards a competitors frame? Why? How does that make sense? If the patient wants an Oakley, go for it..but forgo the additional allowance and take the base allowance. Same with ECP's. Do you really think they are going to pay an additional bonus $10-24 per dispense for an ECP to dispense a competitors frame? Again, why and how would that make senses? If the patient and the office want the additional loyalty dollars then buy the products that show you are indeed loyal. If you want patients that hit the VSP website to be directed to your office or see you labeled in a more attractive fashion, then meet their loyalty requirements. Pretty simple.
Last edited by racethe1320; 01-30-2014 at 03:34 PM.
You can hold any of the above accountable. Again, no VSP lab will ditch you for quality or concerns. Been there done that with them. Davis and Spectera have always been horrible and the polar opposite of VSP in every facet. EyeMed/Essilor are just plain driving patients to retail and even there, you can opt out of their plans.
It's the managed care co's plan and unless the law says otherwise, they could direct all their work if they wanted to. Areas where they can't they likely don't reimburse as well. VSP sells the plans cheaper and leverages their labs and materials costs going in. I get that, and can't really argue with that.
In my office, I cover a large portion of the costs associate with care for my employees. I however, won't allow them to take that as a cash value to use somewhere else. It's really no different than what a plan like VSP offers tells us the same thing.
Please explain how I hold Davis, Spectera, etc accountable - other than just dropping them.
I think you are missing the point. I am faced with the decision - Do I continue participating with the VSP network? It means I must be okay with not having any choice in who supplies my patients with their lenses. If I receive poor service from the VSP lab, I have to accept that in the patient's eye this is a poor reflection on my office/doctor, it will not be seen as a failing of their insurance plan. I must decide whether we will select lens options for our patients based on our belief of what is the best product, or as you've stated - work the system and select the products that will result in a higher reimbursement for myself. I must be okay with reimbursements getting cut … oh wait - unless I purchase more of the product VSP has chosen for me, then my reimbursement won't but cut quite as much. I have to be okay with VSP setting up, and marketing to my patients a convenient online alternative to purchase eyewear - If my patient utilizes this portal, I'll be reimbursed - less of course - but I'm still expected to check the glasses for accuracy, adjust them for the patient, and surely troubleshoot if there are any issues.
But I guess if I can just be okay with all that, then maybe these VSP changes are actually in my favor, and I should really just be grateful VSP has been kind enough to let me participate in their network.
It's really quite the catch 22 isn't it? I totally understand many of Race's comments, he is very correct in what VSP is and what they do, whether you like it or not, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. They (VSP) are brilliant in their business decisions, I can't fault that! I appreciate where they have come from, I could say that for Luxottica and Essilor as well, just don't like where it appears they are heading. I could be wrong, just concerned I guess. These are of course just my opinions, and we all have our own, (even Race and appreciate the opinion also), not everybody is going to agree. That's what makes the world such an interesting and exciting place. Done rambling now.
Talk with them?
Correct. It's their plan that their clients and members opt into and you as a provider don't always get to make the choices you want in terms of labs or products. You're a service provider thus operate under their program. Dog wags tail not the other way around. Not unlike many things in life.I must be okay with not having any choice in who supplies my patients with their lenses.
Where to begin....No you don't have to accept poor service. Again, 110 times over, VSP isn't going to ditch you during a bad situation. All labs have bad jobs go out, etc. It happens. Patients get picky, non adapt, etc... YOU have to work WITH THEM not act like you have a chip on your shoulder to resolve the matter. If the patients impacted, you simply COMMUNICATE the situation with them. Don't point fingers, etc. handle it maturely. Don't do as others here say and have their patient complain, etc. just explain the matter. If need be call the lab with your patient. Easy.If I receive poor service from the VSP lab, I have to accept that in the patient's eye this is a poor reflection on my office/doctor, it will not be seen as a failing of their insurance plan.
Yes. As a service provider, you or the doctor who owns the practice agrees to opt into options and plan guidelines. Again, you're not the boss on managed care deals, you're a service provider for them. The plan is worked out between the employer and VSP. Many here have no clue of the role of the client vs VSP. Yes, you have to work the plan and sell enhancements to reap the highest benefits. Again, not unlike many things in life.I must decide whether we will select lens options for our patients based on our belief of what is the best product, or as you've stated - work the system and select the products that will result in a higher reimbursement for myself.
Yes. I've already gone over why it is better to not have higher exam reimbursements and how the market is no longer gong to bear any additional fee increases. It's reality. If you don't like VSP Leveraging materials to provide you more in return for using them, then don't use them. As the saying goes you then "get what you get and don't throw a fit" Again, you have a choice, do as you wish. Do you take EyeMed? Then you are WILLINGLY accepting even less for the same services VSP pays you more for. So don't go acting as if VSP isn't better because they beat out most if not all the other Managed Care providers in terms of earnings. I don't need to debate that, as I've been around and know the plans just as you do.I must be okay with reimbursements getting cut … oh wait - unless I purchase more of the product VSP has chosen for me, then my reimbursement won't but cut quite as much.
First, you need to acknowledge that they are THEIR members/Clients first then they are your patients. Know your place. You're a service provider to their members that if it wasn't for them being VSP, would be choosing a provider from another managed care company. Don't take that as a pissy comment, but I've been around since the days before Managed Care and yes, I know what they bring us as industry and know my role as a provider. In temrs of what you're reimbursed, be thankful that you're getting anything at all if your patient goes online. First, VSP isn't the ONLY ONE marketing to them directly. Chances are they are the least likely to have done so. Second, please enlighten us on how much you were/are reimbursed from ANY OTHER ONLINE ORGANIZATION. You're not....so again, be glad with their online store you are. That's a choice they made. Perhaps you should recognize that too. If you don't wish to participate or service their clients then DON'T. You're free to tell them to take a hike. Let us know how that works out for you.I have to be okay with VSP setting up, and marketing to my patients a convenient online alternative to purchase eyewear - If my patient utilizes this portal, I'll be reimbursed - less of course - but I'm still expected to check the glasses for accuracy, adjust them for the patient, and surely troubleshoot if there are any issues.
You're last statement is accurate. However, if you're so damn unhappy, then please, drop yourself from the panel and have VSP Direct your clients elsewhere. I always find it interesting that so many are willing to see their patients and cash their checks and then gripe. Leave. Simple. You know it's true.But I guess if I can just be okay with all that, then maybe these VSP changes are actually in my favor, and I should really just be grateful VSP has been kind enough to let me participate in their network.
/rant.
self edit
Ouch! It's this that worries the mob...Loss of control. Having to assimilate....Or?
Yes.
The premier program sounds like a great way to weed out under-performing providers in favor of those that do business with the same model in mind as VSP. I would bet that if you're not a premier provider, in five years you'll be much better off dropping VSP now.
No ouch, just a reality check. I've read a lot of negative things here on this matter and it's clear that much of it is related to a lack of understanding roles.
If that's where it leads then is that so wrong? Again, if two parties aren't in alignment then why should the reward be the same as those that are aligned? Why should a provider that isn't loyal be rewarded the same as one that is?
Did I say it was wrong? Does every statement from you have to be intended to instigate an argument? Nevermind. I know the answer and I'm done playing this game.
Did I state you said it was wrong or did I simply ask a question in return? I'm sorry if you think asking a clarifying question is arguing. That in itself is interesting. I'm not playing a game but will agree, if you are, then please stop.
My goodness Race. You are out of control here. People in many of these VSP threads have very valid points and opinions, it is very obvious you have your opinions, we are all entitled to an opinion. You state you are not arguing, but that is all I see. I respect that you have a great understanding of VSP, that's awesome, but I don't think you have a right to belittle someone else's professional opinion. Java99 made a very feasable prediction based off of how it APPEARS VSP is heading. I would think in a debate you should value someone's opinion of how the majority perceive the appearance of that direction VSP seems to be heading. Just my 2 cents, do with it what you will.
Rich, I simply asked Java a couple questions in return to expand the discussion and she jumped me for trying to instigate an argument and then implied I was playing a game. I respect opinions, but her comments caught me a bit off guard and were received as they were intended to be delivered, offensive.
Essencially:
Is weeding out under performers wrong?
Should all ECP's be reward be the same if they aren't true partners?
Should everyone be rewarded the same/why?
Perhaps it's of no interest. That's fine.
If it's insurance YES, everyone should be reimbursed the same!!!! That's where the question lies, is it really insurance? I am interested, that is why I follow, but interested in fighting or hearing putdowns for honest responses, NO! No need to be demeaning to another well intended professional. I see that this thread has pretty much been killed though. Like I said, I respect that you have a great understanding/passion for VSP, but we are all entitled to an opinion. Java did not even direct her comment at you in particular, it was directed at the subject of this thread, "VSP Premier".
So go ahead, post your usual put down of my statement, and opinion. You are after all always right, at least in your own mind. I'm Out!
It's what getting slobbering drunk on vision "insurance" (NO. It really isn't...but whatever.) Kool-aid leads to. ;)
I disagree. If one office is doing more and providing more / better service, then they in fact should be rewarded differently. It also isn't first or targeting ECP's. It's targeting the client and their employees and directing them to ECP's that offer them the highest ability to maximize their coverage. No sense in sending them someplace that doesn't.
I've made my point about her initial comments. Re-read them as it hasn't changed.I respect that you have a great understanding/passion for VSP, but we are all entitled to an opinion.
Your words not mine, but if you care to actually debate and prove me wrong, then quit crying and actually do it. I'm all for it and would be happy to fall on a sword if you do.You are after all always right, at least in your own mind. I'm Out!
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