View Poll Results: Should Political Posts be allowed on OptiBoard?

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117. You may not vote on this poll
  • No longer allow political posts on OptiBoard

    50 42.74%
  • Allow political posts in one forum for members in publicly joinable group.

    53 45.30%
  • Allow political posts in one forum and require an OptiBoard subscription, i.e., Pay to Play.

    14 11.97%
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Thread: Political Posts - Should they go or should they stay?

  1. #1
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Political Posts - Should they go or should they stay?

    As discussed and demonstrated in this thread, political polarization has poisoned online political discussions including such discussions on OptiBoard. As I indicated, I am no longer willing to be dragged into these political rants and have asked OptiBoard members for their recommendations and advice.

    Interestingly enough, a number of members have contacted me privately to express support for me personally but are afraid to actually post publicly anything to that affect because they too don't want to be subjected to the incivility of specific members. As one put it:

    I see lack of civility coming from a small minority of members who make personal attacks and innuendos. They have been warned many times and continue to insult other posters and make innuendos that are definitely out of bounds.
    So here is the Poll. The choices are to either ban political posts entirely, or to allow them with specific limits, i.e., a separate forum and membership in a specific usergroup. Please vote in this poll and thanks again for all your support.


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  2. #2
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Civility, politics, etc. There will always be issues what you have is a few bullies that have effectively run the members of value from the forum. The less I post the easier to see why its a good idea not to post. I can just read posts and gain all I need to gain. Honestly lately I have noticed its all opinions and fluff here, I get 20/20 mags with more content.

    Why aren't the forum moderators trying to spur discussion and create an environment that is conducive of the boards goals. If you just sit back and let the animals run the zoo, they are going to eventually throw feces at each other.

  3. #3
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    Civility, politics, etc. There will always be issues what you have is a few bullies that have effectively run the members of value from the forum. The less I post the easier to see why its a good idea not to post. I can just read posts and gain all I need to gain. Honestly lately I have noticed its all opinions and fluff here, I get 20/20 mags with more content.

    Why aren't the forum moderators trying to spur discussion and create an environment that is conducive of the boards goals. If you just sit back and let the animals run the zoo, they are going to eventually throw feces at each other.
    Agreed. Over the last few months, I have been seeing the same things and feeling the same way.

  4. #4
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Possible ...................


    I see lack of civility coming from a small minority of members who make personal attacks and innuendos. They have been warned many times and continue to insult other posters and make innuendos that are definitely out of bounds.

    Politics has a role in a partially regulated industry as the USA and fully regulated Canada where politics has deregulated one Province and probably more might be going the same way.

    Disagreements should be tolerated without personal insults allowed.

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder
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    The issue isn't politics.

    Optiboard has many viewers but only a mere handful are engaged.

    A surgeon cuts out cancer but the patient still dies of the same disease because the surgeon cut out the symptom but didn't deal with the real problem.

    The problem is not politics, the problem is the majority of your viewers aren't engaged. There is not enough content, or diversity of content to attract more viewers into conversations.
    Last edited by idispense; 10-12-2013 at 12:35 AM.

  6. #6
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    Why aren't the forum moderators trying to spur discussion and create an environment that is conducive of the boards goals. If you just sit back and let the animals run the zoo, they are going to eventually throw feces at each other.
    You are absolutely right Harry. One of the problems is that personally I have been out of the optical business ever since SOLA Optical eliminated my job in 2001. Consequently I am not up-to-date on many of the products and issues facing today's eyecare professionals. If anyone wants to help with this, please feel free to contact me.


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  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    All I know is, the most consistently useful and civil online discourse I have ever experienced has been at the Home Theater Forum, which has two rules:

    1) Use your actual name as your screen name

    2) No religious or political discussion

  8. #8
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Steve, as I do and many others, how about making it mandatory that you use your real name, ive never had a problem with that, why should anyone else, it would also eliminate a lot of the BS

  9. #9
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
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    One reason many folks prefer screen names is due to problems with clients or corporate entities. You might be surprised who reads these forums.

    As far as politics is concerned, I don't think there is a clean way to separate the politics from the current health care scene. With the ACA, the partial gov't shut down, concerns over online eyewear, and licensure... politics comes part and parcel with these topics. I do believe there is a way to have discourse, discussing the FACTS of the situation, and not the ideology...such as how to take advantage or make the most of the pediatric vision benefit. (Hey, drk.. maybe you can get parents to get sports eyewear, contacts, or other benefits for their child now they don't have to pay for the exam and 1st pair benefit! Then there is VT as well...)

    I also believe the same can be said about the politics in the industry and keeping the discussion civil. I miss the insight Pete Hanlin has, and wish people from any of the 800lb gorilla companies could participate in discussions with us on this board as well to try and understand one another. Similar to when some of the podcasts will feature folks from Lux, Essilor, Eyemed, etc..

    I am not sure how many folks have heard of Deborah Tannen's "The Argumentative Culture." My sister had to read it for a college class and shared it with me. Essentially it is making the observation that we as a society have broken off into a black or white, us vs them, I'm right and you're wrong culture. The two most extreme view points are expressed when "covering both sides." We seemed to have forgotten there are centrists, shades of grey (and not the steamy book!) and more than 2 camps. Every thing has to be about the fight. Storage Wars, Mommy Wars, Property Wars.. Epic Battles, duels, winners or losers..everything is phrased as its life or death.

    "But perhaps the most dangerous harvest of the ethic of aggression and ritual fighting is -- as with the audience response to the screaming man on the television talk show -- an atmosphere of animosity that spreads like a fever. In extreme forms, it rears its head in road rage and workplace shooting sprees. In more common forms, it leads to what is being decried everywhere as a lack of civility. It erodes our sense of human connection to those in public life -- and to the strangers who cross our paths and people our private lives." For Argument's Sake; Why Do We Feel Compelled to Fight About Everything?by Deborah Tannen
    The Washington Post, March 15, 1998

    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

  10. #10
    OptiWizard
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    How can you seperate your occupation from politics? That it has surfaced on Optiboard (and every other board that has ever existed) is testament to it's pervasiveness. It isn't a lack of courage that dissuades posts though, it's a roll your eyes- here we go again disinterest that smart folks are uninterested in getting dragged into. I support Optiboard and I think what's offered here is important. I also do not envy moderators their duties here. Few people come here to listen - most come to lecture. And there are few professors here I care to listen to the days lesson from. I am content to ignore these. But there are also opticians here far better than me and their advice I am indebted to. Knowing the difference is my responsibility.

  11. #11
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason H View Post
    How can you seperate your occupation from politics?
    I think that the majority of people, across the world do it on a daily basis. They also separate their religion from their occupation.

  12. #12
    OptiWizard
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    Johns,
    Just an observation, so I respectfully disagree. My evidence is simply this - if it were so easy to seperate this thread would not exist. Again, just an empirical observation of what actually happens.

  13. #13
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason H View Post
    Johns,
    Just an observation, so I respectfully disagree. My evidence is simply this - if it were so easy to seperate this thread would not exist. Again, just an empirical observation of what actually happens.
    Jason,

    We might be talking about two different issues. I was thinking of all the commerce that goes on, on a daily basis between Catholics and Jews, Republicans and Democrats, Heterosexual and Homosexuals, and so on. They put their differences aside for the sake of making a living.

  14. #14
    OptiWizard
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    Yeah Johns, totally behind you and I understand your point. But consider how many times these things bleed over - like all the contentious debate about things that aren't really optical discussions on Optiboard. Yes, people put aside their differences just to get things done - but it's not long before someone takes exception to something. Do you think it's realistic to keep the board totally free from this? And if so - how?

  15. #15
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason H View Post
    Do you think it's realistic to keep the board totally free from this? And if so - how?
    Yes, absolutely. Here's how:
    Yes, people put aside their differences just to get things done -
    The "put aside their differences" would mean not only ignoring issues we find offensive, but more importantly, avoiding saying things that could be deemed to be. An example of this (one I have been guilty of) would be that when referencing Medicaid, avoid the stereotypes that would incline others to join in a less than constructive way.

    The "get things done" would be be keeping Optiboard open and relevant.

  16. #16
    OptiWizard
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    Its a good thought, but we differ on it's practicallity. As for myself - If the swimming pool looks too dirty I just don't go swimming. Myself I can decide for - but for others its not so easy to control what they do. Good luck and thanks for the debate. They should all be this easy.

  17. #17
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason H View Post
    Myself I can decide for - but for others its not so easy to control what they do.
    Not many people struggle with self-control more than I do (Poster child for Attention Def. Disorder). If I can do it, anyone can.

    Give Optiboarders some credit!

  18. #18
    OptiBoardaholic
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    When I venture into the "Just Conversation" forum, I know that it is going to be something of a free for all. It can be hard to honestly talk politics as things quickly escalate due to the hyper sensitivity in today's politically correct society. When attacks become personal, members should be warned and if it continues, they should be banned. One would have to be pretty naive to think you can change someone's political views on optiboard.

    What bothers me more is the misconduct I see in the general eyewear forum. Particularly when someone expresses a legitimate opinion and then insults start. False innuendos are made and piling on occurs. In the past, I got drawn into a few of these situations and now I stick to the facts or just look the other way.

  19. #19
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    What's the verdict?
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  20. #20
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    What's the verdict?
    The second option is winning. Honestly though, I would rather not have to deal with political posts ever again. And I really don't believe that everyone can behave themselves. If they could, a poll like this wouldn't be necessary.


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  21. #21
    My Brain Hurts jpways's Avatar
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    The choice I would have voted for if I had seen it would be to only allow discussions as they directly relate to ECPs, like the Ohio CL license thread, because side discussions of politics seem to get nasty very quickly, though it looks like our trolls keep under their bridges most of the time.

  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder
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    I say let people talk about whatever they want to...but if someone crosses over the line of sensibilities, then warn them once or twice, and then suspend or expel them. I wouldn't let moderators get in the middle and plead for decency, I would just warn or suspend the offender privately, then cut him/her off at the third strike.

    There's nothing wrong with political or religious discussions. Some people are just bullies and are out to attack whomever...is not like them. Cut them out.

  23. #23
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpod View Post
    I say let people talk about whatever they want to...but if someone crosses over the line of sensibilities, then warn them once or twice, and then suspend or expel them. I wouldn't let moderators get in the middle and plead for decency, I would just warn or suspend the offender privately, then cut him/her off at the third strike.

    There's nothing wrong with political or religious discussions. Some people are just bullies and are out to attack whomever...is not like them. Cut them out.
    This is exactly what I have been doing over the last few years. It simply doesn't work. It only provokes those people into long, drawn-out arguments over what constitutes 'over the line' and then they resort to calling me a censoring dictator who is running roughshod over the rights of the 'oppressed' who are simply trying to enlighten us with their brilliant political observations.

    I'm sick of it frankly and I don't understand why I have to spend time dealing with these people. It's not worth the time or effort and adds absolutely nothing of value to the Board.


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  24. #24
    Master OptiBoarder
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    Don't deal with them. Just warn them, then cut them out. Don't explain yourself. Just cite the rules and blow them off...but I am not in your shoes.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder
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    i'll be honest, i'm cruising the board a lot more and finding a lot of useful threads now that the political ones seem to have "stopped"
    "what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy

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