Political Posts and Civility - Can they co-exist?

**Steve Machol** · 10-03-2013, 01:37 PM

Let me introduce you to Machol's First Law of Online Entropy, which states:

The longer an online conversation goes, the more likely it will drift into chaos and incivility.

As some of you may know. Popular Science has turned off its comments section for articles. You can read about this here:

Why We're Shutting Off Our Comments

Here is part of what they said:

A politically motivated, decades-long war on expertise has eroded the popular consensus on a wide variety of scientifically validated topics. Everything, from evolution to the origins of climate change, is mistakenly up for grabs again. Scientific certainty is just another thing for two people to "debate" on television. And because comments sections tend to be a grotesque reflection of the media culture surrounding them, the cynical work of undermining bedrock scientific doctrine is now being done beneath our own stories, within a website devoted to championing science.

And this was further explained in PC Magazine:

With all due respect to fans of love, science is in fact the universal language. Science explains what gave birth to the universe and it will ultimately explain what ends it. And while there are so many things we don't know, the great thing about science is that it's built on a foundation of facts that have been studied, scrutinized, and dissected for over a thousand of years. Science is one of the safest bets in the universe.

So you can imagine how the editors of Popular Science feel when they publish a story based in indisputable scientific fact, and it is ripped to shreds in the comments section by those who outright reject scientific fact in favor of their politically and religiously-motivated agendas.

Consequently, the 141-year-old publication announced last week it will no longer allow comments on new articles, declaring "comments can be bad for science." However, like any good scientist, it didn't just let the decision rest on that one statement; it cited a study that showed rather convincingly how negative, uncivil, and downright vitriolic comments can dramatically skew a reader's perception of the story being presented.

The problem is that those rational and intellectual voices are being heavily diluted by spammers and crazies. Unfortunately, that behavior isn't just reserved for commenting sections of scientific and political publications—it's everywhere. One only has to spend a minute in the comments section of a movie site like Ain't It Cool News or BuzzFeed's celebrity section or even a tech review to die a little inside. And that's precisely why I don't read comments anymore (save for those on my own articles, which I consider part of my job as a writer). And while I'm sure Gawker will continue to invest millions in its user-generated snark machine, I still believe the commenting system as we know it is broken.

Unfortunately OptiBoard is not immune to this rising tide of incivility. In fact, as Machol's First Law of Online Entropy implies, this slide into incivility is inevitable in today's online world. This unrelenting anger, intolerance is undoubtedly bad for OptiBoard and its members. The question for OptiBoard members then is, what should we do about this? As I replied to Wes's thread here:

The sad thing is that when I try to ask believe to behave and stop the bickering, I get accused of 'censorship' and 'heavy-handed' moderation and 'violating' people's rights'. And when I don't do anything, people blame me for allowing bitter and angry people to post on the forums. The fact is that I can't win no matter what I do. Unfortunately this is a sad sign of the times. Civil discourse is a thing of the past. People use their anonymity to post things without any repercussions whatsoever, which tends to bring out the worst in people.

I have some ideas about this but before I share them I would like to know what advice and suggestions you have. I realize it's impossible to satisfy everyone and it's a waste of my time to even try any more. Let me know your thoughts.

Thank you.

**Fezz** · 10-03-2013, 01:51 PM

No political talk.

I am active and spend a lot of time on a forum that does not allow political discussions and I find it very refreshing!

**Robert Martellaro** · 10-03-2013, 02:00 PM

I vote for civility, enforced by the 'heavy-hand'.

**HarryChiling** · 10-03-2013, 02:09 PM

Look at your list of complainers, I know one that still posts on this board that tries to weave little tidbits of information gained from other threads to incite. Although he remains civil his underlying motives encourage the opposite.

**optical24/7** · 10-03-2013, 02:14 PM

I agree Fezz, the problem would be policing it. Some threads start out with no political overtures only to become a slingfest of political views. I suppose it can be posted in the rules that any political comment made will be removed, but that puts the moderators in the position of determining what exactly is a "political comment". It will also mean more work for you guys.

Personally, I'll refrain from commenting publicly here on such issues.

**MikeAurelius** · 10-03-2013, 02:19 PM

I agree with Fezz. No politics.

Here's an interesting article I ran across today which follows along a similar line of thought: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/how-d...b-s-8C11323108

**JRS** · 10-03-2013, 02:22 PM

Unfortunately, as in many things, the many are (or can be) punished by the few. As Harry put it, we all know which few tend to start threads with the intended purpose of stirring up animosity and dissension. I do believe it would generally accepted to purge those threads before they start. I have been on this board for a long time, but frankly feel unable to post/reply to anything without expecting some derogatory responses.

**Wes** · 10-03-2013, 02:28 PM

For me it wasn't all about politics, but also about the baiting, name calling, and disinformation. Many like to post opinion as facts or just post false information as if it's true, either due to lack of knowledge or for spite, I'm not sure which. Either way, it just got to be more trouble than it was worth.

**TEdFitz** · 10-03-2013, 02:29 PM

Kill more threads, more quickly. Number one on my list would be the old youtube music vids thread...you people have the most horrible taste in music...You should've euthenized that one long ago. Other than that tiny mistake, your work has been exemplary.

**harry888** · 10-03-2013, 02:34 PM

Any thread past page 2 (usually page 1) has gone way off course.

Instead of policing, Is there a way for a thread to close after 2 pages?

Past page 2? Then a new thread should start with new subject line.

Harry

**CME4SPECS** · 10-03-2013, 02:52 PM

I never even open a political thread, nothing good ever comes from them.

**Robert Martellaro** · 10-03-2013, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by TEdFitz

Kill more threads, more quickly. Number one on my list would be the old youtube music vids thread...you people have the most horrible taste in music...You should've euthenized that one long ago. Other than that tiny mistake, your work has been exemplary.

Ha!

The next couple performances are going to be killa.

**waynegilpin** · 10-03-2013, 04:17 PM

1st inappropriate post: Friendly reminder. We all occasionally have fingers working faster than our brain.
2nd inappropriate post: Warning.
3rd inappropriate post in six months: Banned for good.

There is no recidivism by people who are given the death penalty. Whoops. Think I may have just generated my first friendly reminder. Sorry Steve.

**drk** · 10-03-2013, 04:37 PM

Politics in the proper forum. If someone gets extremely personal, then moderation.

Problem is, politics or public policy is a big part of health care these days. How are you going to handle that inevitability? Just talk about technical stuff, but no larger-scale industry news and trends? Sounds boring.

(So you know, that Popular Science stuff above is a political/religious post, which is heavily ironic.)

**optical24/7** · 10-03-2013, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by TEdFitz

Kill more threads, more quickly. Number one on my list would be the old youtube music vids thread...you people have the most horrible taste in music...You should've euthenized that one long ago. Other than that tiny mistake, your work has been exemplary.

Hey Ted. You could post something there and show me and Robert real music!

**TEdFitz** · 10-03-2013, 04:58 PM

Nobody posts pan flute on youtube anymore...This is the world we live in, folks.

**huskypaul** · 10-03-2013, 05:04 PM

I am new to the Optiboard. I find it helpful to get others perspective on related topics, whether I agree or not. There are always going to be those "hot topics" that will divide any group or society. Division may be too strong a word but some of the topics make for an interesting read. I do agree that this is not the proper forum to engage in personal attacks on others, but this is an unfortunate by product of the internet, or the equivalent of the old west equalizer. Perhaps you could contact the offending individuals via email and inform them that certain behavior will one longer be tolerated. If the offending party continues maybe a 3 month ban from Optiboard.
Keep up the good work

**TLG** · 10-03-2013, 06:30 PM

I decided years ago that this board had degenerated into a battle of "who's got the biggest PD stick". I seldom post anymore and come here primarily for entertainment now, seldom to learn anything. I generally search for particular posters rather than interesting topics; the wizards here can make any rational conversation interesting while the boors can firebomb the simplest of questions or comments.

I would never discuss politics or religion at the dispensing table; it is equally unnecessary here. To answer the question originally posted by Steve; NO, I don't believe you can have a political discussion online and maintain civility. You're either going to have to accept it or come up with specific criteria to keep it civil.

**Steve Machol** · 10-03-2013, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by waynegilpin

1st inappropriate post: Friendly reminder. We all occasionally have fingers working faster than our brain.
2nd inappropriate post: Warning.
3rd inappropriate post in six months: Banned for good.

There is no recidivism by people who are given the death penalty. Whoops. Think I may have just generated my first friendly reminder. Sorry Steve.

Unfortunately I've tried all that. It's no different that what we've been doing.

**Steve Machol** · 10-03-2013, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by drk

(So you know, that Popular Science stuff above is a political/religious post, which is heavily ironic.)

Actually they are making a bigger point about online comments which is applicable. Look at what happened in the post you started. You surely knew what you were doing when you did that. Regardless I'm not going to be goaded into arguing any more. I'm looking for suggestions on what to do which will provide the maximum benefit for everyone.

**Steve Machol** · 10-03-2013, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by huskypaul

I am new to the Optiboard. I find it helpful to get others perspective on related topics, whether I agree or not. There are always going to be those "hot topics" that will divide any group or society. Division may be too strong a word but some of the topics make for an interesting read. I do agree that this is not the proper forum to engage in personal attacks on others, but this is an unfortunate by product of the internet, or the equivalent of the old west equalizer. Perhaps you could contact the offending individuals via email and inform them that certain behavior will one longer be tolerated. If the offending party continues maybe a 3 month ban from Optiboard.
Keep up the good work

Thanks but you don't think I've tried that? That is one of the reasons I have been attacked personally by many of those people. I even had people complain to me about banning someone who was posting blatantly racists posts.

**Steve Machol** · 10-03-2013, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by HarryChiling

Look at your list of complainers, I know one that still posts on this board that tries to weave little tidbits of information gained from other threads to incite. Although he remains civil his underlying motives encourage the opposite.

I'm not sure who you are talking about Harry. I get complaints from lots of people on all sides of the political spectrum.

**Steve Machol** · 10-03-2013, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by TLG

I decided years ago that this board had degenerated into a battle of "who's got the biggest PD stick". I seldom post anymore and come here primarily for entertainment now, seldom to learn anything. I generally search for particular posters rather than interesting topics; the wizards here can make any rational conversation interesting while the boors can firebomb the simplest of questions or comments.

I would never discuss politics or religion at the dispensing table; it is equally unnecessary here. To answer the question originally posted by Steve; NO, I don't believe you can have a political discussion online and maintain civility. You're either going to have to accept it or come up with specific criteria to keep it civil.

I keep reading that same complaint but I look at the posts on this board and I actually see a lot of knowledgeable and helpful posts. I really am at a loss to understand why people cannot find useful and helpful content on OptiBoard. What am I missing exactly?

**Steve Machol** · 10-03-2013, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by JRS

Unfortunately, as in many things, the many are (or can be) punished by the few. As Harry put it, we all know which few tend to start threads with the intended purpose of stirring up animosity and dissension. I do believe it would generally accepted to purge those threads before they start. I have been on this board for a long time, but frankly feel unable to post/reply to anything without expecting some derogatory responses.

Yep, which is why I want to make some changes. Even I don't always feel comfortable posting on OptiBoard anymore or feel that I can post what I really think. People attack for the most bizarre reasons. Obviously this is a sign of our anonymous online age and not something that is only happening here.