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Thread: Poly upgrade charge

  1. #1
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    Poly upgrade charge

    I am managing a new office, and i have turned a lot of things around as far as product that was not moving and the Doctor pricing herself out. As of right now she has the poly upgrade charge for single vision at $50 and MF at $75. It throws me off and makes for a difficult pricing structure. I just want to get feedback from other independents what pricing you have for poly.

  2. #2
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    Sample your local competition, not a global sample. Pricing has to work for your office. If you have an EHR system that can handle all of the variables in a complex pricing structure, then it really isn't that big of a deal if it is different based on lens style or not. I guarantee your lab doesn't price poly as an "add on." It will be priced depending on many variables so a poly FT28 will be a different "up charge" than a Seiko surmount poly vs a Varilux S poly...or excuse me, is it airwear? :) Anyway, more to your itching curiosity, our offices do charge a flat "upgrade charge" on poly, and you are not far off from us or our local competition. How I have seen other practices handle complex price structures when answering a price question is they'll say something along the lines of "it costs ABOUT $xx"

  3. #3
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    I always find it interesting to hear what others are selling lenses at. My approach is slightly different, I am not interested in what the shop down the street from me sells their lenses for. I am more interested in what they don't sell. Our model is different, in that we sell aspheric designs, our basic lens is CR 39 FF SV w/ UV SC 129.00. Why not offer something your competition down the street isn't. We also have two tiers 1) stock aspheric SV pricing 2) FF SV pricing.
    Last edited by huskypaul; 09-18-2013 at 01:45 PM.

  4. #4
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Factor in VCPs before making a decision.

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    Thanks to all for the feedback, our cr-39 single vision is 85.00 so i think price wise for miami beach its pretty reasonable. We have OM and all the pricing is there but when patients ask I feel its easier to have one unified price. I think i will make the change on that one.

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    As ThatOneGuy said, your own costs for poly aren't going to be uniform. You need to look at your costs across the whole spectrum of lens designs you dispense and see what you are paying, and see if the differences between SV, FT, and progressive are significant enough that you want to pass it to your customers. You certainly could average it out and let SV customers absorb extra cost on behalf of progressive customers (which unless your costs are the same is exactly what anyone with the same upgrade price is doing), but I can't really imagine that just those two fee differences would be that tough to handle. Instead of cr-39-poly-trivex-etc you just throw in one extra material CR-39-polySV-polfMF-trivex-etc. The easiest way to make it clear to customers is NOT to have the base lens be $X and poly be $X+$Y, rather list CR-39 as $X and the same lens in poly as $Y, just like your lab charges you. Poly is only an "add-on", "upgrade", "option", etc. in insurance-speak. Stop speaking insurance and speak whole lenses. When you get the lens from your lab it isn't a box of separated plastic, progressive, poly, and AR that you assemble, it's one finished product. Give it one finished price. My doc has different amounts for poly among different models of progressives.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskypaul View Post
    I always find it interesting to hear what others are selling lenses at. My approach is slightly different, I am not interested in what the shop down the street from me sells their lenses for. I am more interested in what they don't sell. Our model is different, in that we sell aspheric designs, our basic lens is CR 39 FF SV w/ UV SC 129.00. Why not offer something your competition down the street isn't. We also have two tiers 1) stock aspheric SV pricing 2) FF SV pricing.
    I like your thinking. Because of our high insurance volume, we still have "options" priced out, but I almost exclusively default to offering FF. In our neighborhood, it comes off less pitchy over the phone to answer a specific cost question with "$x," instead of "our more advanced ultra Kool-Aid version that comes with extra sugar costs $xx." I used to take the advice of clarifying over the phone what the differences are between me and chop-shop.com, but then I realized those weren't my patients anyway. I do offer some budget packages though for those who want to give me their business but otherwise can't afford to. Back to the original post, You have to do what works for you and your practice. If you can't articulate that you have different prices for different reasons without sounding like a tool, then offer flat fees. If you can do it but just don't want to, then work for someone you have better chemistry with. If you don't work well with others, then risk your own assets and open your own practice.

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    I will just pass on what we do in our office. We have a set price model for the "upgrades" however, it is separated by lens format. For example, a SV poly adds $50 while for a PAL, poly will add $65. I chose to incorporate this structure so the office would not "eat" some of the cost of PALS nor over charge SV patients. We have several lens models in our "toolbox" and separate them into a good better best format. By doing this we are able to apply a base price the the CR-39 level and then apply the add on fee applicable to the particular category. This keeps things easy for the opticians and extremely easy for when we need to "talk insurance".

  9. #9
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    I think simplified pricing is awesome. In fact, I'd even like to go as far as package price lenses.

    Problem is, I don't do enough private pay to make a go of it.

    VCPs are very line-item-y, and you practically have to have a scorecard to know what feature costs what.

  10. #10
    Optical Curmudgeon EyeManFla's Avatar
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    Had a similar problem here. Our Poly up charge is $50.00 for SV or MF. We sell CR39 SV for $60.00. I am now doing more Trivex and 167 with bigger up charges.
    "Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde"

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Since when is poly to be considered an "upgrade" over CR-39?

    B

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Since when is poly to be considered an "upgrade" over CR-39?

    B
    Since VSP entered the picture.

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    I think simplified pricing is awesome. In fact, I'd even like to go as far as package price lenses.

    Problem is, I don't do enough private pay to make a go of it.

    VCPs are very line-item-y, and you practically have to have a scorecard to know what feature costs what.
    Hopefully this doesn't hijack the thread, but package pricing with VCPs is completely possible, and just about as easy as private pay. We do 90% VCP.

    "For your Rx and frame selection, the best lens for you is XX, which has features A, B, C, and D. Regular fee is $YYY, but with your plan those lenses are only $ZZZ." Sometimes you'll get VCP patients who want a breakdown and want to mix and match every feature, but you have that with private pay packages too. I just pre-calculate the fees for our packaged lenses with each of the most popular VCPs and print them out on a sheet. When patients have the plan we just pull out the pre-calculated VCP fee card instead of the private pay. Works beautifully, my opticians don't have to do any VCP calculations, patients get a very real look at the exact value of the plan ("Your lenses are valued at $700, but you only pay $300, a $400 savings with your vision plan").

    You don't have to change the way you do business to accept VCPs. Just because they break everything down doesn't mean you have to, and just because the have a fee schedule for a feature or lens doesn't mean you have to sell it. If you wouldn't sell a lens or offer a feature combination to a private pay, you can refuse to sell it to a VCP patient too even if the fees are scheduled.

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Since VSP entered the picture.
    Right. You sign up to accept their fees and some other restrictions, but you don't have to adopt their language and "upgrade" structure. All they are talking about is money. We should be talking to our customers about products, service, and performance, not fee schedules. The only difference in experience between a private pay and a VCP customer from me is the price they pay in the end. Other than that I make VCPs transparent to the customer.

  15. #15
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    An issue i see happening is that alot of people because they do have insurance they think they are entitled to everything for nothing. So communication breaks down almost from the start and they focus more on the dollar amount then the actual product we are offering.

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    Kinda what I was thinking Barry! :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLiv View Post
    Hopefully this doesn't hijack the thread, but package pricing with VCPs is completely possible, and just about as easy as private pay. We do 90% VCP.

    "For your Rx and frame selection, the best lens for you is XX, which has features A, B, C, and D. Regular fee is $YYY, but with your plan those lenses are only $ZZZ." Sometimes you'll get VCP patients who want a breakdown and want to mix and match every feature, but you have that with private pay packages too. I just pre-calculate the fees for our packaged lenses with each of the most popular VCPs and print them out on a sheet. When patients have the plan we just pull out the pre-calculated VCP fee card instead of the private pay. Works beautifully, my opticians don't have to do any VCP calculations, patients get a very real look at the exact value of the plan ("Your lenses are valued at $700, but you only pay $300, a $400 savings with your vision plan").

    You don't have to change the way you do business to accept VCPs. Just because they break everything down doesn't mean you have to, and just because the have a fee schedule for a feature or lens doesn't mean you have to sell it. If you wouldn't sell a lens or offer a feature combination to a private pay, you can refuse to sell it to a VCP patient too even if the fees are scheduled.

    Dan, I love this way of doing things and now that I am in charge of our Optical as well, Id love to know more about this! Can I pump ya for samples or something? PM me if you would be so kind to help.

  18. #18
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    (Polly been berry berry good, to me.)

    You're right, DanLiv, good point. We could present that way, and maybe we should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLiv View Post
    Hopefully this doesn't hijack the thread, but package pricing with VCPs is completely possible, and just about as easy as private pay. We do 90% VCP.

    "For your Rx and frame selection, the best lens for you is XX, which has features A, B, C, and D. Regular fee is $YYY, but with your plan those lenses are only $ZZZ." Sometimes you'll get VCP patients who want a breakdown and want to mix and match every feature, but you have that with private pay packages too. I just pre-calculate the fees for our packaged lenses with each of the most popular VCPs and print them out on a sheet. When patients have the plan we just pull out the pre-calculated VCP fee card instead of the private pay. Works beautifully, my opticians don't have to do any VCP calculations, patients get a very real look at the exact value of the plan ("Your lenses are valued at $700, but you only pay $300, a $400 savings with your vision plan").

    You don't have to change the way you do business to accept VCPs. Just because they break everything down doesn't mean you have to, and just because the have a fee schedule for a feature or lens doesn't mean you have to sell it. If you wouldn't sell a lens or offer a feature combination to a private pay, you can refuse to sell it to a VCP patient too even if the fees are scheduled.
    i like this idea, but if i may...how many different pre calculated vcp fee cards do you have for vsp? and what now with eyemed? plus i still have one sucker, er, i mean doctor still wanting to take davis.

    9520g: i have the same pricing as you

  20. #20
    Master OptiBoarder DanLiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mscoco View Post
    i like this idea, but if i may...how many different pre calculated vcp fee cards do you have for vsp? and what now with eyemed? plus i still have one sucker, er, i mean doctor still wanting to take davis.
    To respect the OP's topic I'm moving this discussion to a new thread, and have responded there: Simple "packaged" lens pricing with VCPs

  21. #21
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    We basically use a scorecard (seriously we had them printed and padded with our logo). Here is an image of what we use:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    We do charge for poly upgrade ($70) on all surfaced lenses. If we are going to use stock lenses there is just one price (poly with ARC). This also helps us remember what color transitions a patient wanted (and if they ordered transitions in the first place but I am sure none of you have ever forgotten like me lol).

    The two columns help for if a patient is getting 2 pairs but also to present a good/best option.

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    Some people have said interesting points for example poly being a different charge for progressive or SV. The route I think im going to take is keep the 2 prices separate and just make up a price list for both the staff and the patients. I feel like not having a price list makes some patients uncomfortable as if we are just making up prices as we go.

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    Blue Jumper What are the Disadvantages of Polycarbonate? ...........................

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post

    Since when is poly to be considered an "upgrade" over CR-39?


    ..................................5 years have flown by since that post in 2013 and it still stands.


    What are the Disadvantages of Polycarbonate?

    Although Polycarbonate is known for its high impact resistance, it is very susceptible to scratching. For this reason, clear surfaces such as a polycarbonate lenses in a pair of glasses will typically be coated with a scratch-resistant layer for protection.



    see all of it : on Polycarbonate Material :

    https://www.creativemechanisms.com/b...lycarbonate-pc


    referencing Cole-Parmer's website
    That guide claims that Citric Acid andPolycarbonate have excellent compatibility. However, Polycarbonate is morelikely to scratch than other plastics, and it can also start to craze or crackwhen run through a dishwasher repeatedly.



    ............................source:

    Cole-Parmer's website: https://www.coleparmer.com/chemical-resistance
    Last edited by Chris Ryser; 09-29-2018 at 01:06 AM.

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