I must really be a simpleton...

**Johns** · 09-05-2013, 10:17 PM

I don't know why I can't understand this, but here's the way I see it:

A bunch ( a very large number) of people, mainly women and children, are gassed/killed in a faraway country that's in the middle of a civil war. There is no absolute proof as to who actually did the killing.

So, the response is for another faraway country (the US) to punish the perpetrators (even though they don't know who they are), by bombing the country in which the original bunch of people were killed.

This will

A. Kill more people ?
B. Cost the US a lot more money?
C. Upset a lot more people?
D. Involve the US in another useless war?
E. All of the above.

I just don't get it. I come up with the answer "E". And if they were going to do it, which I wish they wouldn't, why are they waiting so long, and telling the world what they are going to do?

This must really be some complex stuff, because it's way over my head...

**Steve Machol** · 09-05-2013, 10:21 PM

E, and on this issue I think the country is as united as it has been in a long time.

**Wes** · 09-05-2013, 10:31 PM

Interesting how the administration was clueless (or lying-I think lying) as to what happened in Benghazi for weeks and blamed it all on a youtube video, even though our people were there and sending reports and calling for help, yet they're CERTAIN about the facts in Syria? I assume they're just lying again. I work elbow to elbow with the military, and I don't know a single one who thinks this is a good idea.

**Johns** · 09-05-2013, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Machol

E, and on this issue I think the country is as united as it has been in a long time.

The country being the citizens, but why are so many politicians, of both parties, so set on jumping into this mess?

**braheem24** · 09-05-2013, 10:48 PM

Here's what confuses me...

weapons of mass destruction have been used (Gas) and People have been Killed (Mostly innocent).

Saddam the scumbag, Did not have a WMD and killed no one with a WMD, yet somehow the architects of the Saddam war are the opposers of this one.

My question is at some point do these politicians that voted for the Saddam war and are the opposers of the chemical weapon war ever ashamed of themselves when they stand up and give speeches from the bottom of their partisan hearts?

**Johns** · 09-05-2013, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by braheem24

Saddam the scumbag, Did not have a WMD and killed no one with a WMD, yet somehow the architects of the Saddam war are the opposers of this one.

Are they opposing it? McCain seems to be rallying for it...Boehner seems to be gung-ho for it, unless he's changed his mind since the last sound bit I heard.

**braheem24** · 09-05-2013, 11:12 PM

McCain is just senile since he lost, He's been begging for any attention for the past 4 years; I'm expecting to see him on a reality show soon.

Boehner has to play the leader of the republican party which never backs down from conflict, never cuts military spending and never raises taxes.

It's not passing the house even though the house is the stronghold of the Iraqi war supports.

**Wes** · 09-05-2013, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by braheem24

Here's what confuses me...

weapons of mass destruction have been used (Gas) and People have been Killed (Mostly innocent).

Saddam the scumbag, Did not have a WMD and killed no one with a WMD, yet somehow the architects of the Saddam war are the opposers of this one.

My question is at some point do these politicians that voted for the Saddam war and are the opposers of the chemical weapon war ever ashamed of themselves when they stand up and give speeches from the bottom of their partisan hearts?

But do we know who is really behind the attacks? Highly doubtful. I find it hard to believe that Assad (the Ophthalmologist) is stupid enough to use gas considering The US and Israel would love to attack him as that would likely bring Iran into the fight and Iran was likely the real target all along.
My read on these "rebels" is they're likely Mercenaries funded and supplied by parties hoping for war. War is a great debt generator for big banks, and very profitable for weapons suppliers. Most wars have been justified based off of false flag attacks and lies, and I don't think this one is any different.
Also, Saddam the scumbag did indeed have and use gas on the Kurds, he just didn't have nukes. FWIW, I was against that war as well, and left the Army at the first opportunity rather than fight it.
The most vocal Republican politicians opposing the war are Paul and Cruz, and they weren't in office in 2003. Most of the rest do seem to be going along, as are CNN and Fox. They are hawking like mad for war. I think it's insane.
Kerry says its a guarantee that Assad will use chemical weapons again if we don't do "something". I think what he means is he guarantees Assad will continue to be framed until the war hawks get what they want.

**Chris Ryser** · 09-06-2013, 03:29 AM

Most wars in history, going back hundreds of years have had other reasons than than the ones they were named for.

**Judy Canty** · 09-06-2013, 06:33 AM

War is never the answer.

However:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/4304853.stm

**Wes** · 09-06-2013, 06:43 AM

Right, Judy. And the WMD case for invasion was made, oh, 15 years later? But not based on the gas attacks, which there was ample evidence for, but for nukes that never existed. Lies lies and more lies. No politician in this country achieves serious power without selling out. Sure, the local guys may be for real, but the ones like Obama, Kerry, Reid, Pelosi, Bush, Cheney, Romney, McCain, Graham, and Boehner sold their services to the banksters and the corporatocracy to get where they are. I trust none of them.

**Judy Canty** · 09-06-2013, 07:15 AM

The case for war was not made based on the 1988 attacks on the Kurds. The case for war was made following the 9/11 attacks, I believe, by VP Cheney who saw an opportunity for his various companies to profit from the mass hysteria. Cheneys' companies continue to profit from the no-bid contracts let during the run-up.

Do I believe that our political system and our politicians have been corrupted by outside influences? Absolutely. The real cause for my concern is the corruption of the Supreme Court. And that's the end of my commentary on the subject.

**Wes** · 09-06-2013, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Wes

Right, Judy. And the WMD case for invasion was made, oh, 15 years later? But not based on the gas attacks, which there was ample evidence for, but for nukes that never existed. Lies lies and more lies. No politician in this country achieves serious power without selling out. Sure, the local guys may be for real, but the ones like Obama, Kerry, Reid, Pelosi, Bush, Cheney, Romney, McCain, Graham, and Boehner sold their services to the banksters and the corporatocracy to get where they are. I trust none of them.

Originally Posted by Judy Canty

The case for war was not made based on the 1988 attacks on the Kurds. The case for war was made following the 9/11 attacks, I believe, by VP Cheney who saw an opportunity for his various companies to profit from the mass hysteria. Cheneys' companies continue to profit from the no-bid contracts let during the run-up.

Do I believe that our political system and our politicians have been corrupted by outside influences? Absolutely. The real cause for my concern is the corruption of the Supreme Court. And that's the end of my commentary on the subject.

So with the exception of the spot on comment about the Court, we just said the same thing.

**fjpod** · 09-06-2013, 07:44 AM

I get the idea that sometimes there are bad guys and bad governments that you just have to wipe out...Hitler comes to mind, but wiping out the government of Syria will do nothing to help the people of Syria...AND...it will expose the US to increased terrorism.

This is a lose-really big lose situation. I'll take the normal loss.

Send humanitarian aid to those hurt by the violence...if you can find somebody who isn't killing somebody else.

**Uncle Fester** · 09-06-2013, 08:28 AM

Having read Kissingers' book "Diplomacy" I think this is about sending a message to Iran and others and keeping the scale of the balance of power tilted towards the west.

Let's see where the missiles and bombs land and if the same guy who hit the Chinese embassy in the Bosnia conflict is in charge of aiming these.

Bashir is a figurehead who would so much rather be practicing ophthalmology in London. His older brother who died years ago in a plane crash was supposed to take over. Bashir is controlled by his uncles and mother.

We probably have cell phone communication from one of them ordering the attack.

A close friend from Aleppo who has many family members there says the power vacuum has produced a war in his city that is 25% sectarian rebels 25% Salafist jihadists and 50% thugs who filled the vacuum and run the city like Chicago in the heyday of the gangsters.

From Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" written over 2500 years ago-
There is no instance of a nation benefiting from prolonged warfare.

**SeaU2020** · 09-06-2013, 01:34 PM

Totally agree with you Johns! The thing is, as kids if we get hit, we may hit back immediately, without thinking. But even a Kindergartener knows that the more you contemplate the revenge strike, the worse the idea IS.

**Wes** · 09-06-2013, 03:56 PM

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...t-assads-regi/

**Judy Canty** · 09-06-2013, 04:14 PM

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-weapons-weeks

**Wes** · 09-06-2013, 04:48 PM

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/Emer..._29750001.html

I've been trained in chemical weapons decontamination. I haven't researched the timeline for when those bodies were moved , but the decontamination precautions recommended for Sarin don't appear to have been followed. It makes me wonder if it was even sarin.

**Steve Machol** · 09-06-2013, 06:51 PM

Frankly, I have a healthy skepticism of any news reports these day. I still remember the false 'news' regarding Iraq WMDs. What I do know is that we have enough problems in this country that need our attention, and bombing Syria isn't going to solve a single one of them. It will even make them worse, both because we will pass the cost onto future generations, as President Bush did by starting two wars and putting them 'off the books' so his budget would look better, and because no matter what we do we will end up making more enemies.

**Wes** · 09-06-2013, 07:57 PM

The US seems to be constantly engaged in small pointless wars, morstly in the Middle East. I suppose for the sake of the economy they have to perpetuate the hegemony of the petrodollar. Still, I'm tired of the lies and sick of the deaths, ours and theirs.

**Steve Machol** · 09-06-2013, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Wes

The US seems to be constantly engaged in small pointless wars, morstly in the Middle East. I suppose for the sake of the economy they have to perpetuate the hegemony of the petrodollar. Still, I'm tired of the lies and sick of the deaths, ours and theirs.

On that we agree. President Eisenhower warned us abut the growing influence and power of the Military Industrial Complex and ever since then our leaders have done the exact opposite. There is a limit to what we can accomplish with missiles, bombs and drones - and any ground war would be disastrous. We need to stop being the World's cop.

Besides there is almost no chance that we can control who takes over if Assad is deposed. It it far more likely that we would see a fundamentalist Islamic regime than we would a 'shining beacon of Democracy'.

**rbaker** · 09-06-2013, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Wes

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/Emer..._29750001.html

I've been trained in chemical weapons decontamination. I haven't researched the timeline for when those bodies were moved , but the decontamination precautions recommended for Sarin don't appear to have been followed. It makes me wonder if it was even sarin.

My thought exactly and my ABC training goes way back to the early sixties. I would have expected to see row after row of containment bags.

**Wes** · 09-07-2013, 08:50 AM

They called it NBC (Nuclear, Chemical, Biological) when I went through it. Now it's CBRNE (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear and high- yield Explosives)