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Thread: I must really be a simpleton...

  1. #101
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    There is a solution to that.

    Require every member to use their real name and use a verification system to ensure that the people signing up are actually who they say they are. I know of a couple of forums that do this, and the amount of baloney dropped significantly when people had to use their real names on posts. This isn't a porn forum where you want to hide your identity, it is a professional forum where you should be proud of the content you post.

    Those that will not use their real names can be removed from posting activities. I know some will claim that their business doesn't allow them to post on-line with their real names, but that is a baloney argument. Perhaps if your signature line gave your employers name and your position that might be true, but for discussions involving the general practice and art of optometry, it is nothing but baloney. (Oscar Meyer, if you must know.)
    As someone who uses their real name, and is slowly becoming a semi-public figure, I have to disagree. It is not a baloney argument because it will stifle truthful discussion for many. The chains troll these forums looking for any employees who may be speaking uncomfortable truths (and lies, which is the real problem)about them. You must realize this.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  2. #102
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    I haven't seen it yet. Do you have a link to the report you're talking about? I want to make sure we're talking apples to apples here.
    Here's a link to the PDF of the UN report: http://www.un.org/disarmament/conten...estigation.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    As someone who uses their real name, and is slowly becoming a semi-public figure, I have to disagree. It is not a baloney argument because it will stifle truthful discussion for many. The chains troll these forums looking for any employees who may be speaking uncomfortable truths (and lies, which is the real problem)about them. You must realize this.
    I am not about to require people use their real names for exactly those reasons. I only mentioned it as one of the factors which exasperate the level of vitriol exhibited by some individuals.


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  3. #103
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Thanks Steve. I just found this link right before you posted. http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.as...=#.UjiJT9G3Mb0
    So it looks like Sarin for sure, but still doesn't identify who was responsible.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    As someone who uses their real name, and is slowly becoming a semi-public figure, I have to disagree. It is not a baloney argument because it will stifle truthful discussion for many. The chains troll these forums looking for any employees who may be speaking uncomfortable truths (and lies, which is the real problem)about them. You must realize this.
    I'm not getting where real names would stifle "truthful" discussion.

    If you own what you write by using your real name instead of hiding behind a psuedonym, then you can be held accountable for what you put online. How does that stifle any worthwhile discussion?

    As far as "chains trolling these forums", perhaps, but so what? If they are telling truths, even if uncomfortable, what's the problem? And if they are lying, then they don't belong on this forum. I just don't see the downside to this.

    It's a moot point anyway, but I'm curious what you base your dissension on.

  5. #105
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Here are the results of the latest Pew Research Poll: Public Backs Diplomatic Approach in Syria, But Distrusts Syria and Russia

    Unlike so many other issues, all sides are very skeptical of any U.S. military involvement. This is one of the few things that both the non-pundit left and right agree on.


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  6. #106
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Mike, if you can't figure it out for yourself, I won't be able to explain it to you.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  7. #107
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    I don't use my real name, but I try to post as if I did.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    Here's a link to the PDF of the UN report: http://www.un.org/disarmament/conten...estigation.pdf



    I am not about to require people use their real names for exactly those reasons. I only mentioned it as one of the factors which exasperate the level of vitriol exhibited by some individuals.
    I am also a member of another "optical" forum where it is required for participants to use their real names and offer proof of who they are. The bickering and personal attacks there make Optiboard look like a sandbox. (no disrespect intended). I won't even participate in that forum anymore. Many of the hot issues are fanned by the owner/administrator of that board, for whatever his reasons are (IMHO, he does it to boost traffic on the site). I don't think using real names will have much effect.

  9. #109
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    I am not a fan of using real names and have seen the downside to it many times. I for one am against.

  10. #110
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    I haven't seen it yet. Do you have a link to the report you're talking about? I want to make sure we're talking apples to apples here.
    An expert was talking this morning about how the UN team was able to collect tissue samples maintaining a chain of custody so they could not be tampered with. They also got shell fragments with some bearing numbers on them that may let them be traced. The kicker was his discussion of their ability to calculate trajectory and that to be effective they needed a highly trained gun crew with a battery of 16 or 17 shells fired in a ripple effect in 8 seconds. The trajectories had them coming from government controlled areas.

    Hats off to those brave people. The time allowed, area of operation and circumstances where who would know if they came under fire which side the snipers were on made it a very dangerous mission.

    I don't know how quickly or if it will be posted but it was broadcast on WBUR 90.9 Boston about 8:45 this morning.

  11. #111
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    Mike, if you can't figure it out for yourself, I won't be able to explain it to you.
    Well I fully understand Mike's point. However I have actual experience with this issue. Many companies are aggressively monitoring their employees online accounts to make sure they do not reflect badly on their company. I have had many members ask me to change their names because their employers told them to stop posting on this board. This seems to be an issue with companies that start with the letters 'E' and 'L' in particular. Several people even reported to me that they received official 'warnings' from their employers over something they posted on the board.


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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    Mike, if you can't figure it out for yourself, I won't be able to explain it to you.
    Oh, come on. Sarcasm? Really? I asked for YOUR basis for dissension, not what the issue was. It seems that every time I ask you a hard question, you deflect with sarcasm along the lines that I wouldn't understand. Passive-aggressive sarcasm isn't called for or wanted. Just a brain dump so I can try to understand where you are coming from.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    An expert was talking this morning about how the UN team was able to collect tissue samples maintaining a chain of custody so they could not be tampered with. They also got shell fragments with some bearing numbers on them that may let them be traced. The kicker was his discussion of their ability to calculate trajectory and that to be effective they needed a highly trained gun crew with a battery of 16 or 17 shells fired in a ripple effect in 8 seconds. The trajectories had them coming from government controlled areas.

    Hats off to those brave people. The time allowed, area of operation and circumstances where who would know if they came under fire which side the snipers were on made it a very dangerous mission.

    I don't know how quickly or if it will be posted but it was broadcast on WBUR 90.9 Boston about 8:45 this morning.
    And those are precisely the reasons that mercenaries or rebels (or whatever you want to call them) DID NOT do this.

  14. #114
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    The chains troll these forums looking for any employees who may be speaking uncomfortable truths (and lies, which is the real problem)about them. You must realize this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    ...I have actual experience with this issue. Many companies are aggressively monitoring their employees online accounts to make sure they do not reflect badly on their company. I have had many members ask me to change their names because their employers told them to stop posting on this board. This seems to be an issue with companies that start with the letters 'E' and 'L' in particular. Several people even reported to me that they received official 'warnings' from their employers over something they posted on the board.
    Why do you have to have it spelled out for you Mike? Do you want me to spend all day sharing anecdotal evidence and hearsay from others? Some have already chimed in. I use my name, and made it clear the basis for my dissent was the effect it has on others. You're obviously playing dumb in an effort to start yet another argument.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  15. #115
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    I'm just calling you out on your behavior. Every time I ask you a question in these threads you deflect and refuse to answer.

    If you don't want to answer, just say so and be done with it. There's no need for passive-aggressive answers at all. I am just interested in some of the reasons why people don't want to use their real names. You chimed in, but didn't provide anything except vague comments. So I asked again.

    And, no, I'm not trying to start an argument, just wondering why you keep trolling bait at me.

  16. #116
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    I'm just calling you out on your behavior. Every time I ask you a question in these threads you deflect and refuse to answer.

    If you don't want to answer, just say so and be done with it. There's no need for passive-aggressive answers at all. I am just interested in some of the reasons why people don't want to use their real names. You chimed in, but didn't provide anything except vague comments. So I asked again.

    And, no, I'm not trying to start an argument, just wondering why you keep trolling bait at me.
    Every time? Really?
    Mike, you like to play the game of a million questions constantly asking, never satisfied, until the other person misspeaks or commits a typo and then you jump on it like a rabid dog. I'm just not playing your game.
    If you couldn't understand my original meaning, I couldn't help you. If you wouldn't, I couldn't help you. If you were lying for the sake of playing a game, I wouldn't help you. Now go play your game with someone else.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    *laughing*

    I appear to be one of those few, amazing people who learn by asking questions.

    Thanks for outing yourself, Wes.

  18. #118
    Doh! braheem24's Avatar
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    Please dont get this thread closed.

  19. #119
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    I'm just putting him on ignore. It's not worth wasting time on him. Funny, it took a while to figure out how to do that. I've never ignored anyone before; not even Chip.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  20. #120
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    After looking at what has happened in this thread, is it really that difficult to understand why moderating OptiBoard can be so challenging? I guarantee that no matter what I do, someone is going to get bent out of shape about it.

    Thanks for making the 10th anniversary of my daughter's death so wonderful. I'm sure you are all VERY proud of yourselves.


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  21. #121
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Apologies, Steve. Back to topic.
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/18...cil-syria.html

    I'm hoping the UN can sort this out. The US should not act unilaterally, especially since the UN is not yet confident who is responsible for the attacks, only that Sarin was indeed used. I don't trust the US media or their experts at all; I was in the Army when they helped lie us into Iraq.

    "The Syrian government has said insurgents carried out the attack, in which hundreds of civilians were killed by exposure to sarin, a chemical nerve agent. Russia has supported the Syrian government’s assertion, arguing that it is illogical that Syrian forces could have been responsible.

    Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, who called the report a chilling document that described a war crime, declined at a United Nations news conference on Tuesday to ascribe responsibility for that attack, a position he has consistently held.

    But Mr. Ban expressed hope that the Russia-United States agreement reached Saturday, negotiated by Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia and Secretary of State John Kerry, had set in motion a diplomatic process that would overcome the divisions that have deadlocked the Security Council over Syria since the conflict there began 30 months ago.

    “What is encouraging is that the two foreign ministers agreed on a framework agreement, how to deal with all these chemical weapons,” Mr. Ban said. “I hope that spirit of very friendly negotiations, on the basis of good rapport, will help forge a unity among the Security Council.”

    He also expressed hope that any Security Council resolution on Syria “can really be an enforceable one.”

    The Russia-United States agreement specifies that if Syria fails to comply with its obligations under the chemical weapons treaty, the Security Council should impose measures under Chapter 7 of the United Nations Charter, which allows for coercive steps, including the use of military force."

    This absolutely needs to be decided by the UN.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  22. #122
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Also, it is my opinion that it is the proliferation of the online community that is behind the massive American public backlash against another war. The American media can not so easily lie us into wars anymore. For that matter, more than half of Americans are now questioning the official 911 story.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  23. #123
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    And here is why I don't trust the media and other experts Fester: last night on Fox, O'Reilly, after pretending not to know what Ban Ki Moon's name was (in an effort to appeal to the lowbrow crowd), he insisted that Ban claimed it had to be the Syrian government, when that's exactly what Ban and the UN didn't say. The news doesn't have to tell us the truth, and they don't.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  24. #124
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Oh, and Piers Morgan was claiming it was an AR-15 shotgun that was used in the Navy Yard shooting. Most other news outlets were claiming it was an AR -15, but it was a plain old shotgun (like Joe Biden said to buy!) These guys don't know anything of which they speak, but they're speaking anyway. They aren't qualified to weigh in on the subject.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  25. #125
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Go around that checkpoint and be very quiet???

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    And here is why I don't trust the media and other experts Fester: last night on Fox, O'Reilly, after pretending not to know what Ban Ki Moon's name was (in an effort to appeal to the lowbrow crowd), he insisted that Ban claimed it had to be the Syrian government, when that's exactly what Ban and the UN didn't say. The news doesn't have to tell us the truth, and they don't.
    But Moon has to play politics with his answers to questions.

    I still don't see how 16 or 17 howitzers and their support could move through government controlled areas without somebody noticing.

    That said we still don't know how many fighters were killed in the attack. If you know the enemy will not attack civilian ares then it only makes sense to put your forces amongst them. And surely Assad considers anyone in a rebel held area an insurgent or sympathizer the way the US did the viet cong in Vietnam.

    This whole Arab Spring is a classic case of being careful what you wish for and the unrest is at its root a battle for the future of Islam which ironically translates to peace.

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