Has anyone had direct hands-on experience with Luzerne Optical's new iFit Dispensing System? It's an iPad compatible variation that is not limited by lens brand. Luzerne actually customized and published their own app for it. Looks pretty neat but I'm not certain how handy it will be in actual use. Any feedback is appreciated!
http://www.luzerneoptical.com/pdf/if...ing_system.pdf
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ifit...652751872?mt=8
Personally, I am not a proponent of any ipad dispensing apps because they come out with new ipad systems every other week, at which point the software gets updated for faster hardware, thereby rendering the software sluggish and less functional on the hardware you've originally purchased. Of course that is remedied by the purchase of a new $499 piece of hardware. The idea of the software is good, but the ipad as a deployment platform is not a good idea.
If they wouldn't make it for such an antiquated device like an ipad.... If they really wanted it to be accepted android version would be a better platform.
I can't quite tell if you're trying to imply that I'm a close minded fan boy of something else, or not. The original question was regarding the Luzerne program. While I can't say I'm overtly familiar with the program (which probably works just fine as advertised assuming you've worked with similar programs and understand the limitations), I am reasonably familiar with the platform. The recent rush to digital fitting devices is flashy, modern, useful, way overdue, and cool, but has also been met with the cultural shift to all things portable/disposable.Originally Posted by Slim
iPads thus far have been disposable (due to massive hardware improvements from one generation to the next [ipad 1 had single core, slow processor...ipad 2 jumped to dual core...new ipad enhanced graphics processing, etc.), but priced at 3-5 year device lifespan prices (ipads have only been around 3 years (and the origional was made near obsolete by ipad 2 in less than a year)).
In a rush to develop the software ("apps"), I've noticed a trend by developers to produce an app, and only once it is already for sale, do they start including new and useful features that arguably should have been present in the original release product. This is a problem for two major reasons:
1) as the ipad hardware has improved, rapid development of software has been made easier by raw processing power making up for poor/rushed software writing. This means that if you have an older ipad, the updated software may not function correctly when you update to the latest version because it has not been written efficiently, therefore rendering slower hardware near useless.
2) As you are forced to replace hardware (to keep up with software developments), eventually your license runs out of installs, meaning you have to buy the software all over again, meaning that the cost is far greater than $2,700 start up cost for software and hardware. It means there is huge recurring cost over the span of using the technology.
The "Apps" culture has ruined the digital age, best I can tell, because it has eliminated the cost savings associated with better computing power. At the end of the day, a computer is still a tool that should be used for a specific need and to bring specific value to your business. Apps have shifted all of that benefit (via DRM) of saving money by doing in house computations, in to making computations fun, but paying developers for it.
Look at click charges that labs have to pay for creating a freeform lens. The lab invests hundreds of thousands of dollars in to state of the art equipment to be able to produce the latest and greatest all on their own, only to now not only have to pay for the materials (which the use of sv blanks was supposed to be a massive savings for the labs), but now also have to pay someone else an additional fee every time they want to produce the lens. While there are still benefits, the benefits are significantly reduced (margins aren't as high, pricing is less competitive, production capacity is reduced).
If you are using EHR, digital fitting devices, electronic ordering, etc. and don't know WHY, then you are doing it wrong. If you bought office mate or compulink, etc., but don't use the features that you pay for, then why are you paying for it? If you invested $2700 in to an ipad device, but aren't sure how it is going to increase your bottom line or patient satisfaction, then why did you invest in it?
Erik Zuniga, ABOC.
I don't trust the PD measurements from even the best Auto-Refractor, do you? Now with Auto-refractor the patient is fairly fixed, and predictable. With a hand held tablet App regardless of brand the variance for potential error is enormous. Posture, angle, distance, user error, bridge height, pupil size. the list goes on. Barry Santini was writing an article on measuring devices but I never saw it, I am on the road a lot and may have missed it. If anyone can reference Barry's article, I would appreciate it greatly.
Maybe so, but I've been a licensed Optician far longer than I've been a rep and the measurements I get when demo-ing the app are accurate.
I'm still waiting to hear someone give feedback on the application....
But since I'm here....
Sharpstick and Judy bring to light once again the point that any tool is prone to error or misuse or worse in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing or hasn't been educated/trained with it, but in the hands of a competent, trained, skilled person, that tool performs beautifully.
I'd trust Judy's measurements with it without hesitation, because I know she knows what she's doing (she wouldn't say she did otherwise). But I wouldn't try to take measurements with it because, while I know a lot about optics, lenses, and measurements, I have no clue about how to use the application.
There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.
Fortunately, it comes with an instructional DVD.You can't just download the app.
I just ordered one....soon I will give feedback.
Any feedback?
We've got a ipad system here in office too, along with another Android tablet based system as well. Neither are anywhere near accurate. One is driven by the optician, and the other is given to the pt to do.
There is consistency between the two systems in the following at least:
* Both take minutes to take measurements, and for the optician to "refine" the frame measurements. This can be done in seconds by hand.
* Both consistently record measurements that are astronomically wrong. Seriously, how many kids do you see with PD's in the 80's? Or pt's with vertex distances measured in tens of centimeters?
* Both systems take too much time to "set up", ie: entering in pt info, or running through "instructional" videos at the beginning. During which time, the wow factor of the latest whiz bang tablet app is lost on all but the most stalwart pts.
In short, the trusty PD stick, and pen to measure OC/Seg, and perhaps the nice little Zeiss tool that works surprisingly well for panto & vertex still outperform all the electronic gizmos we've seen to date.
Gee, I knew I could count on you. I was actually interested in feedback from the Luzerne system. But thanks for playing.
Is it available in Canada?
What does the system cost ?
Is it lab specific ?
We can sell/ship to Canada using a credit card.
The system is $1500 and the app from iTunes is $99.99
Luzerne rebates the entire cost through premium progressive lens w/premium AR orders
The iPad is not included and the system works with the 4, Air and Mini options.
It is not lab specific. It does use our logo in the graphics.
All your insinuated snark aside, please Judy, fby all means educate all of us here as to how -precisely- your system eliminates any/all of the above mentioned issues which appear in other tablet based devices. This is critical information for any practice considering trying to implement a system such as this in their dispensing.
I'm sure you have all the answers. You always do. I am simply looking for feedback from ECPs who are using our system. The acceptance in my territory has been excellent, but I'd like to know how others are faring.
Again, thank you for playing.
If we all had the answers, we wouldn't ask the questions here. So, once again, I kindly ask that you help the rest of us who don't work for Luzerne, nor have a vested interest in the financial success of said lab or it's products, to help us to understand what it is that sets your system so far apart from the direct experience so many of us have had with this type of system in our own practices. Thanks in advance for all the information you can provide to that end.
I can only recount what my what my accounts are saying. The overall perception is that patients like the WOW factor and are often convinced that their lenses are better than with more dated methods. Since we know that perception is reality for most of us, anything that fosters the notion of a more high-tech process is a good thing. My accounts who have switched from other digital systems have done so because of its portability, ease of use and accuracy. Patients seem to be more comfortable with a process that feels more natural than standing in front of a free-standing unit or having to move a chair into a fixed position for the process. If you want more information or a hands-on demo, you can visit our booth at VEW or I can leave your contact information with our Utah rep, Doug Martin.
On another note, Uilleann, I refuse to engage in any kind of debate with you. I have nothing to prove to you. The post was specifically about the Luzerne iFit system and the feedback is all that I'm interested in hearing.
Again, no debate - just a lack of information we were all hoping you would be good enough to help clear up. It's a shame that yet another vendor seems to solicit a product with no more information than the now standard: "Just trust us. It works because..." (crickets) The anecdotal evidence of a limited number of accounts feels good to get when one's livelihood is dependent on sales of said product, certainly. But for those of us interested in more of the nuts and bolts details behind a given claim of superiority, such as was made earlier in this thread against other similar systems, added information and detail is both helpful and prudent in an open discussion such as this. It is a pity that Luzerne seems so set withholding any such information from the board at large. I, along with the OP, were asking valid questions about your product. The tone of your responses here sadly, doesn't come off as overly positive relating to either the product, or the company itself.
To all: My apologies for reviving a year old thread, simply because I was curious about a product that my company sells.
1. Does it take minutes to take measurements. It takes whatever time you need to snap two photos. You can refine your measurements (POW) after the patient has left the building by saving the photos.
2. I have not found the measurements to be "astronomically wrong", in fact they have been quite accurate. The system is easy to learn, in fact I taught my husband to use it to fit my last 4 pair of digital freeform PALs. He's not an Optician, he's only a PhD, but he has a pretty smooth learning curve.
3. The system is not an ordering system, it is a measuring system. It doesn't require patient information.
4. The demos are great tools for providing patient education and helps to keep every staff member on the same page when describing features and options.
5. For those of us with shaky hands, there is an optional stand available, however most people become comfortable using it without aids.
6. Yes, it's an iPad based system, so if you object to iPads in general, don't buy it because you already don't like it and nothing I say or do can change that. My daughter the lawyer hates all things Apple, so I get that, sort of.
My livelihood does not depend on sales of this product. It is not a profit center for Luzerne. I am a rep for the company AND a licensed Optician with 42 years of experience in the field. My livelihood is what ever I choose it to be. So, I can do my job right now and I can still dispense if I choose. Yes, Uilleann, I can do yours as well.
Last edited by Judy Canty; 09-10-2014 at 03:42 PM.
Wheres the "like" button? I want to double click it.
I'm sorry - do my what? I can't help but note your continued snarky/sarcastic tone.
"WOW" factors are short lived. Because most people have a short attention span for new fangled office gadgets that they get to fondle for a few moments.
After all, they are not wearing the gadgets. They do not really comprehend exactly what it does for them.
Someone please tell us how to transfer that "WOW" factor to the $800 pair of eyeglasses the patient puts on after they have had a week to reflect on how much money they just spent on something that big box stores advertise for half the price. Keep in mind now that the general consumer does not know how to compare apples to apples when it comes to eye wear. All they see and feel is plastic and metal.
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