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Thread: Progressive Lens History

  1. #26
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    Its also very interesting the lack of German contributions to Progressive history given the size of their contributions to other areas of optics and manufacturing. Although the German engineers contributed greatly to Spherical, and Bi-focal, and Aspheric improvements, it seems there was an almost complete disinterest in Progressives.

  2. #27
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -sharpstick
    esp for sources re: Astronomer George B. Airy in c. 1825 who possibly developed the first corrective lenses for Astigmatism (Wikipedia, unverified and uncited).
    I think you will find it very difficult to find it primary sources for this, but several optical books credit Airy for conceiving the first sphero-cylindrical lens, most likely fabricated by Fuller of Ipswitch in 1827.

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick
    Although the German engineers contributed greatly to Spherical, and Bi-focal, and Aspheric improvements, it seems there was an almost complete disinterest in Progressives
    It's not really that surprising, when you consider the German approach to optics, in general. From the beginning of the industry, and it was really the Germans who made an actual industry of optics, their focus has been improving optical performance and reducing imaging defects. The majority of the key optical patents filed by Germans represent improvements like the first calculated lenses, the first antireflective coatings, the first aspheric lenses, low-dispersion glass, et cetera, et cetera.

    Early progressive lenses were strictly a cosmetic appliance, with significant imaging defects that made them virtually unusable for many wearers. So I doubt that they were of much interest to early German opticians. However, once grinding and machining technologies had matured enough to make possible progressive lenses that were optically acceptable, a number of important optical improvements were made to progressive lenses by German firms like Carl Zeiss and, later, Rodenstock.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  3. #28
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    Since some of you here Apprenticed under Franklin, I am hoping you can fill in any notable information that remains missing from the record. :)

    esp for sources re: Astronomer George B. Airy in c. 1825 who possibly developed the first corrective lenses for Astigmatism (Wikipedia, unverified and uncited).
    While a very convenient source for information Wikipedia is not a valid research tool nor a valid source although it may be able to point you toward some original source documents. If you want the straight skinney you are going to have to get off your butt and head to Southbridge, MA, Rochester, NY and the homes of the original fathers of the industry.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Meister View Post
    However, once grinding and machining technologies had matured enough to make possible progressive lenses that were optically acceptable, a number of important optical improvements were made to progressive lenses by German firms like Carl Zeiss and, later, Rodenstock.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    One source says that Rodenstock was before Zeiss in designing a German Progressive, is this incorrect?

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    While a very convenient source for information Wikipedia is not a valid research tool nor a valid source although it may be able to point you toward some original source documents. If you want the straight skinney you are going to have to get off your butt and head to Southbridge, MA, Rochester, NY and the homes of the original fathers of the industry.
    I know, thats why I am asking here. Actually, I think I will have to head to England in this case. I don't mind a trip to Mass, or NY and even Montreal though, but its on my own dime. But I hope to locate as many source documents as I can first, see what I can find in the Library system, and track down some relatives. My family has 1000 letters dating back to the early 1800's, maybe other families do as well.

    Its interesting to see how international the Optical industry has always been.

  6. #31
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick
    One source says that Rodenstock was before Zeiss in designing a German Progressive, is this incorrect?
    I believe that Rodenstock introduced their first commercially successful progressive lens, Progressiv R, in 1981, shortly before Carl Zeiss launched their first commercially successful lens, Gradal HS, in 1983. The actual design work on Gradal HS was started several years earlier, with the initial German patent application filed in 1980. Rodenstock filed a patent application for Progressiv R in 1978. So, in terms of getting to market first, I believe that it was Rodenstock.

    However, Progressiv R was still a symmetrical lens design, so I'm not sure you could really say that Progressiv R really advanced the state of the art in progressive optics at the time. Gradal HS obviously introduced a major idea that is still used by progressive lens designers today, balancing the optics to either side of the progressive corridor in order to reduce differences in power, prism, and magnification between corresponding points across the right and left lenses (that is, "horizontal symmetry"). Gradal HS also relied on the use of splines.

    Of course, someone from Rodenstock may be able to make a more compelling argument for Progressiv R, like Werner Koeppen, who I believe was actually involved in the development of their lens. In any case, my point was really only that the Germans got involved in progressive lens design, once the manufacturing technology had matured to the point where imaging defects could be satisfactorily addressed.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  7. #32
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    I should add that restrictions imposed by earlier patents also precluded much development work on progressive lenses among many lens manufacturers.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Meister View Post
    I think you will find it very difficult to find it primary sources for this, but several optical books credit Airy for conceiving the first sphero-cylindrical lens, most likely fabricated by Fuller of Ipswitch in 1827.
    The source document is called: "On a peculiar Defect in the Eye, and a mode of correcting it" Spelling his, it is available in 6 US University libraries in microfilm, and its for sale on Amazon for $300. But it seems pretty solid.

    Online version here:
    http://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/14304281

    I think that will work.
    Last edited by sharpstick777; 07-03-2013 at 03:32 PM.

  9. #34
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    This is very helpful for the second series of chronology after 1959, That will include lenses when they launched, the advancements (if any) that they brought with them, and patents. I will include both the R (first German Design) and Gradal HS, especially because I believe it to be the first lens with R and L asymmetrical designs. Your knowledge of that era is exceptional, I was still fumbling with PD sticks and not thinking about progressives much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Meister View Post
    I believe that Rodenstock introduced their first commercially successful progressive lens, Progressiv R, in 1981, shortly before Carl Zeiss launched their first commercially successful lens, Gradal HS, in 1983. The actual design work on Gradal HS was started several years earlier, with the initial German patent application filed in 1980. Rodenstock filed a patent application for Progressiv R in 1978. So, in terms of getting to market first, I believe that it was Rodenstock.

    However, Progressiv R was still a symmetrical lens design, so I'm not sure you could really say that Progressiv R really advanced the state of the art in progressive optics at the time. Gradal HS obviously introduced a major idea that is still used by progressive lens designers today, balancing the optics to either side of the progressive corridor in order to reduce differences in power, prism, and magnification between corresponding points across the right and left lenses (that is, "horizontal symmetry"). Gradal HS also relied on the use of splines.

    Of course, someone from Rodenstock may be able to make a more compelling argument for Progressiv R, like Werner Koeppen, who I believe was actually involved in the development of their lens. In any case, my point was really only that the Germans got involved in progressive lens design, once the manufacturing technology had matured to the point where imaging defects could be satisfactorily addressed.

    Best regards,
    Darryl

  10. #35
    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    The source document is called: "On a peculiar Defect in the Eye, and a mode of correcting it" Spelling his, it is available in 6 US University libraries in microfilm, and its for sale on Amazon for $300. But it seems pretty solid.

    Online version here:
    http://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/14304281

    I think that will work.
    What a find!

  11. #36
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick
    This is very helpful for the second series of chronology after 1959
    You should also look up some patents for Luc Tagnon for that time period. He made a number of useful advancements in the 1960s and 1970s for Essilor.

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick
    Online version here: http://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/14304281. I think that will work.
    Yes, a very good primary reference! And he did, indeed, have Fuller make the lens!

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  12. #37
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    A search for "progessive lens" on http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searc...n_EP&DB=EPODOC
    yields the following:

    Approximately 1,880 results found in the Worldwide database for: txt = progressive and txt = lens using Smart search

    With all that manure there must be a pony in there. I leave it to others to find it. I'm going fishing.

  13. #38
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    2C lenses were interesting and I hoped the company would be successful. Their PAL lenses, to the best of my knowledge, were injection molded lenses. The company used a gasket-mold system to fabricate the lenses. Hope this helps.

    Best regards,

    Jenean


    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    Also, I believe that the "2C Optics" lens was the first commercially available Free-form Progressive in the US, also lost to history.

  14. #39
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    The first progressives i ever made was in the early 1960. My dad and i would calculate the surface curves and by hand fabricate a cam about 24 inches long. The cam would guide a panograph machine which in turn would guide a lathe, therby simulating an x, y,z machine, before electronic and computers did such things. This lathe would cut a ceramic block, which i would have to smooth out by hand. Then a lens would be put on the ceramic block and go through a rotary oven with perhaps 100 stations and slumped through a vacumn, all done in a room with sweltering high temperatures, so the lenses would have less chance to be subject to a cool breeze that could crack all the lenses as they cooled down.

    After doing this my dad would scream at me to go clean the glass centrifuges filled with ground glass reduced to a mudlike gray substance..all containing heavy metals residue, leads, ect.

    i dont like to go back in my memory much to those days...but this thread intriged me.

    dave

  15. #40
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    Very nice post, Dave.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  16. #41
    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    Why not upload what you guys and gals got to this point to Wiki?

    It's already way better than what's there now.

    This is nominated for best thread of the year by me!!!

  17. #42
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    Bump

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEO View Post
    The first progressives i ever made was in the early 1960. My dad and i would calculate the surface curves and by hand fabricate a cam about 24 inches long. The cam would guide a panograph machine which in turn would guide a lathe, therby simulating an x, y,z machine, before electronic and computers did such things. This lathe would cut a ceramic block, which i would have to smooth out by hand. Then a lens would be put on the ceramic block and go through a rotary oven with perhaps 100 stations and slumped through a vacumn, all done in a room with sweltering high temperatures, so the lenses would have less chance to be subject to a cool breeze that could crack all the lenses as they cooled down.

    After doing this my dad would scream at me to go clean the glass centrifuges filled with ground glass reduced to a mudlike gray substance..all containing heavy metals residue, leads, ect.

    i dont like to go back in my memory much to those days...but this thread intriged me.

    dave
    Dave, I am glad you are still here. Your dad was a legend and if you want to share any more info like that you will never bore me!

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamia View Post
    2C lenses were interesting and I hoped the company would be successful. Their PAL lenses, to the best of my knowledge, were injection molded lenses. The company used a gasket-mold system to fabricate the lenses. Hope this helps.

    Best regards,

    Jenean
    Thanks for the great info Mamamia! And Welcome to Optiboard! Great first post!

  20. #45
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    I am still waiting to hear back from the Gowlland family to see if they have more info, but I do hope to soon. I want to do it right though with good source material. Darryl has a ton of great information too. Estelle's Glancy's contributions are huge and Dick told me he has no more info that what's on the site. Her contribution is that it put all the progressive surface on one side (previous attempts were on both sides) which allows correction to be put on the back. Even if wasn't commercially made, it COULD have been. No word from Dick on who at AO made that decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Why not upload what you guys and gals got to this point to Wiki?

    It's already way better than what's there now.

    This is nominated for best thread of the year by me!!!

  21. #46
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick
    Her contribution is that it put all the progressive surface on one side (previous attempts were on both sides) which allows correction to be put on the back. Even if wasn't commercially made, it COULD have been. No word from Dick on who at AO made that decision.
    American Optical began investigating progressive lenses shortly after Gowlland invented his design, which was the first progressive lens to enjoy any real use among wearers. Glancy proposed an intriguing solution to the problem in 1923, although between the prohibitive manufacturing complexities involved and the absence of any real commercial demand for the product at that time, I suspect that Edgar Tillyer probably felt that single-vision lens design was a better use of AO's resources and Glancy's skills, in particular (she did a lot of the math for him).

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  22. #47
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    I would agree with your assessment Darryl, but I was hoping to find a memo, or journal or something to confirm it. Dick says he doesn't have anything re: the behind the scenes thinking or anything more on Dr. E. Glancy. As well, Gowlland Co. did have some kind of manufacturing facility in Massachusetts (some microscopes with the Gowlland name have been found with "Made in Massachusetts") right before Drs. Tillyer and Glancy were working, so it possible there was some direct contact between them. Did Mr. Gowlland move to Mass for a few years? no one knows for sure. Also, there is a note sheet that Dr. Glancy marked a "Gowland Lens" (one "L") with lensometer readings but its not clear if this lens was truly Gowlland's, or her's, and she is just using it as a catagory name or descriptive name. If its her's, AO did make at least one prototype.

    Do you have any info that Dick doesn't? Thanks. He basically told me everything he has re: E. Glancy is on his website. He is very busy though since he is re-openning the museum, which is good news!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Meister View Post
    American Optical began investigating progressive lenses shortly after Gowlland invented his design, which was the first progressive lens to enjoy any real use among wearers. Glancy proposed an intriguing solution to the problem in 1923, although between the prohibitive manufacturing complexities involved and the absence of any real commercial demand for the product at that time, I suspect that Edgar Tillyer probably felt that single-vision lens design was a better use of AO's resources and Glancy's skills, in particular (she did a lot of the math for him).

    Best regards,
    Darryl

  23. #48
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Also, there is a note sheet that Dr. Glancy marked a "Gowland Lens" (one "L") with lensometer readings but its not clear if this lens was truly Gowlland's, or her's, and she is just using it as a catagory name or descriptive name. If its her's, AO did make at least one prototype
    It was their analysis of Gowlland's lens design. I assume that they eventually made a prototype of Glancy's lens design, since they described the lens and a manufacturing apparatus in their patent, but we may never know for certain at this point. A lot has been lost over the past 100 years, particularly since Glancy's lens design was never commercialized, but maybe Dick will eventually turn something up.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  24. #49
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    I have also been in contact with the Gowlland family, who still have business interests and passion for Optical instruments in the UK and in Canada. They have a lot of information that is unknown and unreleased, which I hope to share. They are currently expanding their family research into this area at my request. According to their grandson, H.O. Gowlland sold his business, at least 60 inventions, and many patents to AO Optical around 1918-9 relating to spectacle lenses. His efforts were practical and focused on manufacturing glass lenses. Its logical that his business in Massachusetts resulted in some kind of contact with AO Optical, and AO was interested in his work enough to buy it. Dick says he has no more information on H.O. Gowlland or E. Glancy that is not on his website. What is unclear is the contributions H.O. made to the progress of Tillyer and Glancy at AO, since his work predates theirs by about 10 years. The quest goes on... Does anyone know if Estelle Glancy had any children?

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick
    According to their grandson, H.O. Gowlland sold his business, at least 60 inventions, and many patents to AO Optical around 1918-9 relating to spectacle lenses... What is unclear is the contributions H.O. made to the progress of Tillyer and Glancy at AO, since his work predates theirs by about 10 years.
    It is certainly possible that American Optical purchased or licensed some of Gowlland's patents, but I'm not sure how much sense that would have made. They were later granted their own patent for a different no-line bifocal design and, as far as I know, didn't sell or distribute progressive lenses (Gowlland's or otherwise) for several more decades.

    Also, American Optical's patent attorney at the time, HH Styll, doesn't mention Gowlland in his history of AO patents and litigation through 1945. (But Stylle doesn't really mention Glancy's invention either, so this is not necessarily definitive proof of anything.)

    In any case, I doubt that he contributed anything to Estelle Glancy's lens design, other than the basic fact that it was possible to produce a no-line or progressive bifocal, which had already been known to Wells at American Optical since 1910, but maybe not to Glancy and Tillyer, who were hired later. Her lens design was fundamentally different from Gowlland's, and Gowlland was not acknowledged as a co-inventor in her patent publication.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

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