AIT vs. Essilor

[LSUpaul20]

I am deciding between (Option 1) Mr. Blue Auto Blocker with Mr. Orange Edger from Essilor or (Option 2) S-Tracer, C.5 auto blocker, and Weco E6S from AIT. It seems on paper that these 2 options have the same capabilities. I don't have any experience dealing with either companies or equipments. I understand everyone has their own personal opinion due to their personal experience, but it will really help me decide which one to go with. The price is pretty comparable, so it boils down to customer services and product reliability.

Who would you prefer to deal with? Which product is more reliable in your opinion? I would really appreciate your comments because I have no experience with either companies or products.

Thank you in advance for your time and comments,

Paul

[braheem24]

Santinelli ME-1200

[Craig]

Buy the basic Santinelli and listen to the those of us who own the equipment. I have never heard a complaint from a new Santinelli customer about the equipment or service; the equipment just works and they now offer some basic machines at a great price. What if I could show you that the least expensive machine in the end is the ME1200?
Barry Santini and I can help you grow your business with a piece of equipment. That cannot be done on a basic edger.

Let me know if you want to talk.

Craig

I just got my new 8 base tracer and have had an ME1200 for almost a year. The machine puts out work that we never thought possible before and the only issue is it is slowwww.

[LENNY]

It looks like a basic Silhouette poly job on ME1000 with polish takes up to half an hour to cut. Is that normal?

[Chris Ryser]

Maybe you could do better with a chemical polish that only takes 5 seconds......and that's it.

[mdeimler]

It looks like a basic Silhouette poly job on ME1000 with polish takes up to half an hour to cut. Is that normal?

Polishing on the Santinelli is painfully slow. Place those jobs accordingly. For example, if you need to use the restroom, put the polish job on then. Or hit start and go make a sammich.

[Barry Santini]

I do not find these time frames for polishing poly on my mE1200. But more importantly, the UNpolished poly edges are a beautiful matte...and trivex is even better.

ME1200!

B

[Jacqui]

Go with the AIT/Weco, stay away from Essilor.

[sharpstick777]

Go with the AIT/Weco, stay away from Essilor.

I would echo Jacqui, I have used them all. Santinelli is a good box, but very slow and in my opinion over priced. Essilor has had software issues from day one, although those reports are dropping, I don't know one person who has ever bought a Mr. Blue or Mr. Orange and didn't regret the decision... deeply.

Santinelli beats the Weco E.6 for a few features, but I test every edger for speed every year (using -5.00/ -2.00 Trivex) and the Weco's are FAR faster (its the fastest wet edger), and offer far greater value. Plus AIT offers great service. The advantage the Santinelli has is in the backside shelf tool, and the ability to resize the lens shape. So if those are features you want, and don't mind the slow speed, it would tip the scales a little back toward the Santinelli. Although there are good reports here, I a have friend with a recent Santinelli edger that has been a nightmare, and she said that if anyone is interested in the service and quality of Santinelli, they should give her a call before buying one.

[Plausible]

Although there are good reports here, I a have friend with a recent Santinelli edger that has been a nightmare, and she said that if anyone is interested in the service and quality of Santinelli, they should give her a call before buying one.

Really surprising to hear, IMO Satinelli has greatly improved their customer service and quality over the last couple of years.

[Craig]

Although there are good reports here, I a have friend with a recent Santinelli edger that has been a nightmare, and she said that if anyone is interested in the service and quality of Santinelli, they should give her a call before buying one.

Is it a machine issue or an operator issue? The service we receive could not be better and if the equipment works properly there is not much to discuss. I would be curious what the root of the problem really is.

Craig

[HindSight2020]

Go with the AIT/Weco, stay away from Essilor.

+1

[MikeAurelius]

My only beef with Weco over the years (and we are a solid Weco shop) has been that about every 5 years or so they move to a different front-end distributor. Our first Weco (the venerable 440) was purchased from Coburn. Then they went with someone else. I don't know who they are with now, but when it comes time for service or parts down the road, I spend more time on the phone/internet trying to track down who is selling them now than I did doing the actual repair work.

Fortunately, many of the wear-and-tear parts are bearings and such, and those can be sourced from practically any reputable bearing supply company.

[labguy2020]

Briot purchased Weco back in 2002. Weco and Briot units are essentially the same. You may want to check out the Coburn Exxpert, it can do a lot of specialty work and has a 3 year warranty

[LSUpaul20]

First, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Second, it sounds like I should definitely stay away from Essilor, and it's a toss up with Santinelli or AIT.

This will be my first shop, so I think customer service is very important to me. I don't want to buy something and feel like I'm stuck with it and have no help if something goes wrong. AIT offers the 5 years contract for parts (consumable parts are NOT cover) and labor at $5,500 additional. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure how their services are.

On the other hand, Santinelli mentioned something about using their surfacing labs, and they can help pay for their edger??? The rep didn't give me much information and said that I need to talk to the lens lab rep for info. I haven't got a hold of him yet, so have anybody use this program or something similar to it?

Again, thanks for everyone input.

[sharpstick777]

Its been a few years since I opened a Briot box, but the one i did had a lot of plastic gearing. My Weco's are much more solid, metal gears, better bearings, stronger mounts, etc.

Briot purchased Weco back in 2002. Weco and Briot units are essentially the same. You may want to check out the Coburn Exxpert, it can do a lot of specialty work and has a 3 year warranty

[sharpstick777]

The machine often freezes right in the middle of a job, software shuts down, lenses are usually toast. Purchased new, set up, trained by Santinelli, and all service performed by Santinelli. After replacing a ton of stuff and many service calls, motherboards, switches, etc, problem still exists.

Is it a machine issue or an operator issue? The service we receive could not be better and if the equipment works properly there is not much to discuss. I would be curious what the root of the problem really is.

Craig

[LSUpaul20]

The machine often freezes right in the middle of a job, software shuts down, lenses are usually toast. Purchased new, set up, trained by Santinelli, and all service performed by Santinelli. After replacing a ton of stuff and many service calls, motherboards, switches, etc, problem still exists.

Great specific feedback. Thanks!!!

[Barry Santini]

I'd check/verify your outlet voltage and amperage.

b

[EyeCare Rich]

I'd check/verify your outlet voltage and amperage.

b

++++ 1. Totally agree Barry. Sounds like a power supply issue to me.

[LSUpaul20]

I would echo Jacqui, I have used them all. Santinelli is a good box, but very slow and in my opinion over priced. Essilor has had software issues from day one, although those reports are dropping, I don't know one person who has ever bought a Mr. Blue or Mr. Orange and didn't regret the decision... deeply.

Santinelli beats the Weco E.6 for a few features, but I test every edger for speed every year (using -5.00/ -2.00 Trivex) and the Weco's are FAR faster (its the fastest wet edger), and offer far greater value. Plus AIT offers great service. The advantage the Santinelli has is in the backside shelf tool, and the ability to resize the lens shape. So if those are features you want, and don't mind the slow speed, it would tip the scales a little back toward the Santinelli. Although there are good reports here, I a have friend with a recent Santinelli edger that has been a nightmare, and she said that if anyone is interested in the service and quality of Santinelli, they should give her a call before buying one.

Thanks for the comparison and stating the points. It's helpful during this decision making. I'm not sure if I can justify enough to pay that much more for Santinelli. However, we are still debating because there's pros and cons with all of them. Service is a key factor along with reliability. AIT offers the 5 yrs warranty on parts and labor, so it sounds very appealing.

[bernster1]

I usually don't reply, basically just read forums, but i must put my two cents in. Being a 37 year optical veteran and working front and back not to mention having worked at the wholesale level for Essilor, A.I.T. and Topcon in the edging divisions, after looking at most edgers on the market I was looking for an edger that did just about everything but main focus was on drilling. I paid only 26,500 for my Weco E3 from A.I.T. were Santinelli was going to cost me upwards of over 60,000.00 I can tell you first hand Weco E3 is an ausome edger for the money. The ( SERVICE ) from A.I.T. is unsurpassed I can't say enough about it.
OK, now the draw back to the Weco E3 being a user of about 4months now is that there is an issue with the safety beveling in that the lenses have to have enough thickness from the front side not the back mind you for the edger to safety bevel. So i am by hand doing about 50%, i don't mind it, the other draw back which i over came is with any lined multi-focal you have to spot the corners to beable to block the lenses due to the internal camera not being able to see the segment. After a couple of weeks just like getting use to wear progressive lenses ( lmao ) its like second nature to me and not that bad.
Hope this was and is help to you. And kudo's again to A.I.T. service department, not to forget my sales rep Axel who also is ausome

[LSUpaul20]

Yes, it's helpful to hear that, and thank you for putting your 2 cents in this time. It was nice to hear that AIT service department is great. I have heard from one source that AIT service was horrible. However, it was just that one source, so it's nice to have multiple sources stating otherwise.

It is very helpful for experience people like yourself and many others on here to share their experience and comments because I have never started up an optical shop before. Using an edger at an existing lab is much more simple than having to buy an edger with so many options available.

I really appreciate everyone on optiboard for sharing their thoughts and experience. It really does help. Thanks.

I usually don't reply, basically just read forums, but i must put my two cents in. Being a 37 year optical veteran and working front and back not to mention having worked at the wholesale level for Essilor, A.I.T. and Topcon in the edging divisions, after looking at most edgers on the market I was looking for an edger that did just about everything but main focus was on drilling. I paid only 26,500 for my Weco E3 from A.I.T. were Santinelli was going to cost me upwards of over 60,000.00 I can tell you first hand Weco E3 is an ausome edger for the money. The ( SERVICE ) from A.I.T. is unsurpassed I can't say enough about it.
OK, now the draw back to the Weco E3 being a user of about 4months now is that there is an issue with the safety beveling in that the lenses have to have enough thickness from the front side not the back mind you for the edger to safety bevel. So i am by hand doing about 50%, i don't mind it, the other draw back which i over came is with any lined multi-focal you have to spot the corners to beable to block the lenses due to the internal camera not being able to see the segment. After a couple of weeks just like getting use to wear progressive lenses ( lmao ) its like second nature to me and not that bad.
Hope this was and is help to you. And kudo's again to A.I.T. service department, not to forget my sales rep Axel who also is ausome

[sharpstick777]

I'd check/verify your outlet voltage and amperage.

b

Power supply changed, verified by tech, no voltage issues.

[sharpstick777]

LSU Paul, is this a new shop? Although it feels great having a new edger it won't pay for itself until you are doing about 8-10 jobs a day.

Your initial money is much better spent on a few extra frame lines.