facepalm

[edKENdance]

Our Doc just saw a client. -7.00/-5.00. Doc handed her off to me and told me she's had base curve issues in the past but had some questions about progressives because she has a 150 add now. Looked at her old pair. Damned things were popping out of the frame they were so curved. They looked totally warped. Here's the story. She was wearing a pair that had become warped over time and had got used to them. Had a new pair made and couldn't deal with the change so the place she got them had them remade in an 8 base. Now she's effed. We've never made anything for her in the past so I told her to continue to frequent the place that she had been seeing and let them handle this for her which happens to be a large supermarket chain. What would you have done? I was absolutely blown away that someone would exacerbate her problem by recreating a bad pair of lenses.

[Fezz]

I had a similar situation about a year ago.

I tried to be a hero.........................ended up a zero!

Patient found me while researching a brand of frames. She lived an hour away. She came in complaining about all of her old glasses. My red flags were waving with every word she said. Had an exam, modest change. Multiple old specs, all jacked up, high minus on high base curves(?), warped, cut off angle/twisted, you name....the glasses had it wrong! I decided to do the new spectacles "correctly" and of course she couldn't see out of them! Had her in for a doctors visit, very slight rx change to see if it helped-Didn't hear back from her! She ended up going somewhere else, who I assume told her that I suck, didn't know what I was doing, told her everything I did was incorrect, I need an education on base curves and matching old eyewear (remember-she complained about all of her old pairs), I'm an idiot, on and on and on.

Total refund, beat it Lady


Im done trying to save the world and suggest you send this problem down the road to the "real" opticians!

Good luck!

[opty4062]

I was absolutely blown away that someone would exacerbate her problem by recreating a bad pair of lenses.

I'm not. We see it all the time; the mindset of just give the patient what they want to keep them happy and spending money, or give them enough to shut them up and maybe they'll take their problem down the street to someone else. :(

[edKENdance]

I've seen people not get used to new glasses after checking their old ones and stuff was out of whack. PD, heights etc... Usually I can explain the issue they're having and assure them that the problems they're experiencing are due to errors in the previous pair they were wearing but I wasn't gonna touch this one with a 10 foot pole. Oddly enough I had another person walk in the door today and the Doc had written this on the rx "very sensitive to measurements use extreme precision". I let her walk.

[SeaU2020]

I do it about once a year...get that person that I know I cannot make happy because of old, whacked out glasses or had trouble EVERYWHERE they've ever been before and I pull my "tact" offense.
"Tact" is the ability to tell someone to shove off in a way that they look forward to the trip.
Well-played.

[edKENdance]

I do it about once a year...get that person that I know I cannot make happy because of old, whacked out glasses or had trouble EVERYWHERE they've ever been before and I pull my "tact" offense.
"Tact" is the ability to tell someone to shove off in a way that they look forward to the trip.
Well-played.

Heh! Love it! I might have stepped my foot into it if she seemed the slightest bit receptive to the issues I was explaining she was going to have. Bullet...dodged.

[jefe]

For me, it's always the person who demands the most -- biggest discounts, best stuff -- and who complains the most about other places who ends up being the biggest pain. When I sense someone is like that, discounts start shrinking and other terms of the sale change. I make it less-desirable for them to do business with me and more desirable to go elsewhere.

[edKENdance]

For me, it's always the person who demands the most -- biggest discounts, best stuff -- and who complains the most about other places who ends up being the biggest pain. When I sense someone is like that, discounts start shrinking and other terms of the sale change. I make it less-desirable for them to do business with me and more desirable to go elsewhere.

Same here. I'm also leery of people who have a record of getting their eyes tested here but have never purchased anything else. We charge more than most places around here for exams so it's always intrigued me about where they go. The client in question has never purchased anything from us in all the years she's been getting her eyes tested here yet she was never back to have her rx checked against the glasses that were made for her that were giving her so many problems. It's just weird. Hope they have fun making progressives for her. Maybe we'll see her for an rx check this time around. :)

[Wes]

I had a similar situation about a year ago.

I tried to be a hero.........................ended up a zero!

Patient found me while researching a brand of frames. She lived an hour away. She came in complaining about all of her old glasses. My red flags were waving with every word she said. Had an exam, modest change. Multiple old specs, all jacked up, high minus on high base curves(?), warped, cut off angle/twisted, you name....the glasses had it wrong! I decided to do the new spectacles "correctly" and of course she couldn't see out of them! Had her in for a doctors visit, very slight rx change to see if it helped-Didn't hear back from her! She ended up going somewhere else, who I assume told her that I suck, didn't know what I was doing, told her everything I did was incorrect, I need an education on base curves and matching old eyewear (remember-she complained about all of her old pairs), I'm an idiot, on and on and on.

Total refund, beat it Lady


Im done trying to save the world and suggest you send this problem down the road to the "real" opticians!

Good luck!

Some people just aren't worth the headache they bring to the table, and slopticians sure do make a real optician's job a pain in the neck. The buying public doesn't know who to trust in the he said she said situation when everyone tells them a different thing. I've found that's one of the few times that ABOM actually has value with the public.

[Barry Santini]

Some people just aren't worth the headache they bring to the table, and slopticians sure do make a real optician's job a pain in the neck. The buying public doesn't know who to trust in the he said she said situation when everyone tells them a different thing. I've found that's one of the few times that ABOM actually has value with the public.

No disrespect meant here, Wes. But your post prompted my poor brain to spurt:

"Well, if there was no licensure or certification for opticians, then, from the public's perspective, there'd be less *expectation* that all who serviced them would know what they were doing. And perhaps then the public would more actively seek out referrals for the best servicers, like they do restaurants now, and the situation might almost fix itself.

Like I said, all this popped into my brain on little coffee.

B

[Wes]

Judging from commentary from many patients, a good many already have reduced expectations when visiting opticians. I don't know how many times I've heard "this guy really knows what he's talking about" and "no one ever explained any of that to me before". I usually convince people I'm competent just from conversation, but in those rare cases where a person is highly frustrated from being told too many conflicting stories, that credential lends a lot of authority to the speaker.

[fjpod]

Same here. I'm also leery of people who have a record of getting their eyes tested here but have never purchased anything else. We charge more than most places around here for exams so it's always intrigued me about where they go. The client in question has never purchased anything from us in all the years she's been getting her eyes tested here yet she was never back to have her rx checked against the glasses that were made for her that were giving her so many problems. It's just weird. Hope they have fun making progressives for her. Maybe we'll see her for an rx check this time around. :)

I may be off the topic of the thread a little, but this is an example of what I call FRAGMENTATION of care. It is very hard to help someone who gets an exam in one place and glasses somewhere else. We've handled both...patients who want to go out, and outside patients who come in to fill an Rx. Having "matured" over the years, if I am examining and treating a patient who then asks for refractive care, but indicates they want to go outside with the Rx....I politely tell them why I think they should get "refracted" where they buy their glasses.

More in line with the OPs original remarks though, I hate dealing with a patient that bashes everybody else openly. It won't be long before you are on their list. We had one the other day who demanded that we remake his progressives with 20/32nds dedicated to distance and 12/32nds for near. Oh well.

[idispense]

No disrespect meant here, Wes. But your post prompted my poor brain to spurt:

"Well, if there was no licensure or certification for opticians, then, from the public's perspective, there'd be less *expectation* that all who serviced them would know what they were doing. And perhaps then the public would more actively seek out referrals for the best servicers, like they do restaurants now, and the situation might almost fix itself.

Like I said, all this popped into my brain on little coffee.

B

I am totally with you on this. There is so much unchecked illegal dispensing going on now, that actually I would welcome deregulation for the very reason you put forth. It would put matters back 30 years ago when it was so nice to be the one people sought out to solve problems. It was not uncommon back then to rescue people from simple things like PD's 10 mm too wide. Business was plentiful.

[idispense]

Judging from commentary from many patients, a good many already have reduced expectations when visiting opticians. I don't know how many times I've heard "this guy really knows what he's talking about" and "no one ever explained any of that to me before". I usually convince people I'm competent just from conversation, but in those rare cases where a person is highly frustrated from being told too many conflicting stories, that credential lends a lot of authority to the speaker.

I am totally with you on this . It happens almost daily word for word as you said . New students should see videos of this as it happens .

[idispense]

On the subject of the patient with warped lenses:

Put a lense clock on the warped lens and show the patient, this engages them when the tools come out, which they have never seen before, then trust begins. Now show them an uncut lens with the lens clock so they can see the difference.

Next explain how they have become used to this and how concerned you are that they may not adjust well and how bad you would feel if they could not adjust after spending hundreds on new lenses from you . Explain that you do not give refunds when doing this kind of unusual remedial work. Explain that the symptoms she is presently having have developed over time and it will take an equal amount of time for her to readapt to correct lenses .

Explain that you would like to correct things for them slowly and you would like to start with a small adjustment to their warped lenses before even considering to take them on as a patient. In other words make them want you on your terms. Hold out the illusion that they may not be a candidate for your services.

Now remove their warped lenses from the frame and hopefully they are not A/R coated. Add some heat and place them on a table curvy side up, press down gently with the palm of your hand and you should be able to remove some of the warp. Cool . Reinsert and give them back to the patient . Tell them to try this for a week and come back for a recheck. Don't try to sell them anything . In a weeks time see how they adapt and slowly build trust without expense . When they do order, explain the no refund policy on this type of work and the reasons why then have them sign off on it. Keep their expectations low , so they will be surprised if it works and not disappointed if it doesn't, Deal with them from the point of view of their own negativity.

Keep their expectations low, so they will be pleasnatly surprised if it does work but not disappointed if it does not.

There are many reasons for warped lenses, this won't work if the lens is too big for the frame and the center thickness too thin.

The goal is to build trust first with this type of sale.

It is also advisable to now charge a small fee for todays service and consult on this problem or tell them today's first half hour was free but there will be a fee for the check up to monitor things next week if they choose to continue the remedial work.

[Jason H]

I'm kinda cool with the difficult ones - no miracles here or magic wands to pretend I'm better at it, but I love a chance to prove myself (even to a lunatic) and I have done so with some success. It even landed me a part time job doing nothing but. Somewhere between slopticianry (thanks Wes) and mesmorizing people with a dispensary wallpapered entirely with degrees and accolades is a simple concern and means to communicate that is the heart of our profession. It's just another person sitting across the pd gauge from you. The exceptions are what they are, but I'll not turn anyone away who is interested in trying.

[NCspecs]

On the subject of the patient with warped lenses:

Put a lense clock on the warped lens and show the patient, this engages them when the tools come out, which they have never seen before, then trust begins. Now show them an uncut lens with the lens clock so they can see the difference......The goal is to build trust first with this type of sale.

It is also advisable to now charge a small fee for todays service and consult on this problem or tell them today's first half hour was free but there will be a fee for the check up to monitor things next week if they choose to continue the remedial work.

I think this is a great approach. I have done something similar on many occasions whether it be pointing out crooked progessives or a lens that is so warped it's popping out of a frame. I always ask to see a persons old eyewear before I attempt to fit them at all. I want to know what I'm up against. :)

Although I'm an optimistic problem-solver I know when to fold. Some people cannot be helped or at least not by someone with my job description. Haha!

[Wes]

On the subject of the patient with warped lenses:

Put a lense clock on the warped lens and show the patient, this engages them when the tools come out, which they have never seen before, then trust begins. Now show them an uncut lens with the lens clock so they can see the difference.

Next explain how they have become used to this and how concerned you are that they may not adjust well and how bad you would feel if they could not adjust after spending hundreds on new lenses from you . Explain that you do not give refunds when doing this kind of unusual remedial work. Explain that the symptoms she is presently having have developed over time and it will take an equal amount of time for her to readapt to correct lenses .

Explain that you would like to correct things for them slowly and you would like to start with a small adjustment to their warped lenses before even considering to take them on as a patient. In other words make them want you on your terms. Hold out the illusion that they may not be a candidate for your services.

Now remove their warped lenses from the frame and hopefully they are not A/R coated. Add some heat and place them on a table curvy side up, press down gently with the palm of your hand and you should be able to remove some of the warp. Cool . Reinsert and give them back to the patient . Tell them to try this for a week and come back for a recheck. Don't try to sell them anything . In a weeks time see how they adapt and slowly build trust without expense . When they do order, explain the no refund policy on this type of work and the reasons why then have them sign off on it. Keep their expectations low , so they will be surprised if it works and not disappointed if it doesn't, Deal with them from the point of view of their own negativity.

Keep their expectations low, so they will be pleasnatly surprised if it does work but not disappointed if it does not.

There are many reasons for warped lenses, this won't work if the lens is too big for the frame and the center thickness too thin.

The goal is to build trust first with this type of sale.

It is also advisable to now charge a small fee for todays service and consult on this problem or tell them today's first half hour was free but there will be a fee for the check up to monitor things next week if they choose to continue the remedial work.

I have handled such situations in a similar manner. One thing to add, if the lenses are that warped, the cause is usually from the lenses' A measurements being larger than the frame. It usually helps to shave a little off of the nasal and temporal sides. It helps to mark them up to be sure. If they weren't made right to begin with, you may want to shave off material from only one side.

[obxeyeguy]

We had one the other day who demanded that we remake his progressives with 20/32nds dedicated to distance and 12/32nds for near. Oh well.

Engineers, you have got to love them.

[Robert Martellaro]

Engineers, you have got to love them.

Engineers are incapable of placing appearance above function.

Engineers are always honest in matters of technology and human relationships. That's why it's a good idea to keep engineers away from customers, romantic interests, and other people who can't handle the truth.

From "Engineers Explained"...

http://bcn.boulder.co.us/~neal/engineerhumor.html

[tmorse]

On the subject of the patient with warped lenses:

Put a lense clock on the warped lens and show the patient, this engages them when the tools come out, which they have never seen before, then trust begins. Now show them an uncut lens with the lens clock so they can see the difference.

Next explain how they have become used to this and how concerned you are that they may not adjust well and how bad you would feel if they could not adjust after spending hundreds on new lenses from you . Explain that you do not give refunds when doing this kind of unusual remedial work. Explain that the symptoms she is presently having have developed over time and it will take an equal amount of time for her to readapt to correct lenses .

Explain that you would like to correct things for them slowly and you would like to start with a small adjustment to their warped lenses before even considering to take them on as a patient. In other words make them want you on your terms. Hold out the illusion that they may not be a candidate for your services.

Now remove their warped lenses from the frame and hopefully they are not A/R coated. Add some heat and place them on a table curvy side up, press down gently with the palm of your hand and you should be able to remove some of the warp. Cool . Reinsert and give them back to the patient . Tell them to try this for a week and come back for a recheck. Don't try to sell them anything . In a weeks time see how they adapt and slowly build trust without expense . When they do order, explain the no refund policy on this type of work and the reasons why then have them sign off on it. Keep their expectations low , so they will be surprised if it works and not disappointed if it doesn't, Deal with them from the point of view of their own negativity.

Keep their expectations low, so they will be pleasnatly surprised if it does work but not disappointed if it does not.

There are many reasons for warped lenses, this won't work if the lens is too big for the frame and the center thickness too thin.

The goal is to build trust first with this type of sale.

It is also advisable to now charge a small fee for todays service and consult on this problem or tell them today's first half hour was free but there will be a fee for the check up to monitor things next week if they choose to continue the remedial work.

+1. The fee schedule is especially good advice.

[Barry Santini]

Judging from commentary from many patients, a good many already have reduced expectations when visiting opticians. I don't know how many times I've heard "this guy really knows what he's talking about" and "no one ever explained any of that to me before". I usually convince people I'm competent just from conversation, but in those rare cases where a person is highly frustrated from being told too many conflicting stories, that credential lends a lot of authority to the speaker.

This, Wes, I can agree with!

B

[kat]

Dealing with one right now! Told him in advance that it would be a slow process and he would have to also need to give everything time. Good thing I have a great lab that is willing to extend re-do's on this guy.

[Robert_S]

20% of people will take up 80% of your time... it's absolutely true.

[idispense]

Dealing with one right now! Told him in advance that it would be a slow process and he would have to also need to give everything time. Good thing I have a great lab that is willing to extend re-do's on this guy.

I feel I have done my job well when I don't need the lab to absorb the cost of redos. I like to think that for the most part I pay my own way and for my own mistakes. Many times a lab has credited me for a job and yet I still call them up and say "No, that one is my mistake and I will pay for it, not you"

The patient should not be expecting anyone to work for free or pay for their dilemna either .

This is the ultimate patient/ECP relationship and the way it should be .

Have you ever noticed that your children spend their own money differently than the money you give them ?