What can we do as a group of licensed ophthalmic dispensers to Stop the sale of online glasses in licensed states where it's mandated that eyewear needs to be manufactured and dispensed by licensed professionals?
Why can they break the law across state borders when we can't?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind!"
- Dr. Seuss
Are you saying this because they advertise on TV now?
If you go down this route, you also have to go after Essilor and the others. How deep are your pockets?
You can not stop it!
Welcome to the new world order! Buying online will not end! How many of us make purchases online? I know that I made eight online purchases in the last week!
Adapt, differentiate, educate and eat more bran!
I am thankful for online sales..........it keeps the riff raff bottom feeders out of my practice so that I have time to concentrate on real patients purchasing real eyewear!
Last edited by Fezz; 09-28-2012 at 07:56 AM.
Fezz,
I agree that it lowers the amount if bottom feeders from my practice, but it also raises ethical as well as legal issues.
It also sends in patients looking for Free PD's and adjustments as per Warby Parker instructions.
Besides deep pockets, what will it take for our local states licensing agency's to protect the consumer and our livelihood?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind!"
- Dr. Seuss
Show proof of harm!
Good luck getting the apathetic optical masses to do anything!
They can be stopped but you first have to realize why they can exist.
(1) They are willing to break the law.
(2) You are not willing to insist your regulators uphold the law you pay for through your licensing fees .
It is that simple .
And Fezz the things you bought on line last week , were they restricted sale goods like optics ?
1) Define "bottom feeders." People without a lot of money? People with limited budgets? People who might not necessarily benefit from a $400 lens? I'm sure they appreciate being called "bottom feeders."Originally Posted by OptiMon
2) WP is now reimbursing people who get charged for their PDs. Watch out.
3) It's not up to the state to protect our livelihoods, it's up to us. The government didn't stop auto manufacturers to protect the horse and carriage industry, or word processor manufacturers to protect typewriter companies, and on and on. Industries change, competition arises, and it's either adapt or die. We can shout until we're blue at the face about how "illegal" online is (though I doubt there'd be much shouting if we were getting a piece of that pie) and how we need to shut it down, but by the end of the shouting match, online will still be around and we'll just look like a bunch of greedy misers trying to prevent people from getting a good deal.
There is a point to be made about State Associations or Licensing Agencies. If it is the law in your state that spectacles must be dispensed in person, and you know FOR SURE that non-personal dispensing is occuring in your state (most likely it is, but you still have to prove it), then call your Association/Agency and ask them to enforce the law. The more that call, the higher the chance that something may be done about it.
However, what is done may not be to your liking. It may turn out that in person dispensing might be found to be discriminatory to out-of-state businesses. This has happened in the past, not necessarily in the optical field though.
There are two sides to the coin, so pick your battles carefully.
Also, don't forget the potential legal firetorm that could/would arise regarding the regulation of interstate commerce. Strange bedfellows may be made if Essilor steps in on the side of a startup like WP to protect their own future interests-- they have the money to throw at the resultant, drawn-out litigation.
Exactly. Interstate commerce is a very touchy subject and is controlled not by the states but by the Federal Government. Restricting interstate sales by state mandate is considered protectionism and is highly frowned upon at the Federal level.
Personally it doesn't directly effect my business, but it's extremely frustrating to play by the rules and constantly be penalized for it.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind!"
- Dr. Seuss
They have a right to on-line business but I totally agree that they have to be regulated like contact lens companies. It is a prescription that should be validated by the prescribing Dr. for accuracy. How do we do THAT?
Fax system a'la the contact lenses you mention? After all, there's no doctor at the pt's house to verify the lenses he/she receives are the correct ones, just as the prescribing doctor doesn't have to verify the rx in a pair of glasses made by an outside optician if the pt takes his/her rx elsewhere.
If it isn't effecting you, how are you being penalized?
The point is that at least the patient has an rx either written by the Dr. or verified first....what happens to it after I get a hold of it or an on-line optical isn't the point. Even pharmacists have been known to screw things up. I think it should be just like going to a pharmacy for medicine. I have to have a written rx or my Dr. needs to verify it before it is filled.
What bothers me about WP is that they called us the "greedy middle men" in the ad and then they tell their customer to go to an optician "greedy middle men" to get free PD, adjustment, and troubleshooting. Now, they reimburse the fees is optician charges for PD.. Hmmm, I think I will start charging $95 to hand out PD info. Let me see you reimburse that.
The North Carolina State Board of Opticians has already tried to regulate this and the FTC took a very dim view of it. Unless you can prove harm, this ain't going anywhere.
http://www.ftc.gov/os/2011/01/1101ncopticiansletter.pdf
Harm? Hmm, how about we order a pair which the PD will be off for sure, and then go crash the car to a tree and claim it was due to the lenses that you weren't able to clear?
...thereby reinforcing their point about the "greedy middle man."
So you would rather give PD info and do adjustments on their glasses for free as they say you would?
From their FAQ:
Reasonable fees are... reasonable. Self-consciously exaggerated fees for the purpose of financially bullying people are not.Most optical stores will make minor adjustments for free or a small fee
Sorry my time is money and I would rather spend it with my loyal customer who understand the quality eyewear and value my service. Those are the people I give free service. If you buy your frames from online retailer, I don't adjust them or troubleshoot them period. Go back to your online retailer for those services.
Let's talk about who really is the greedy middle men here:
I sell high end handmade frames, freeform lenses, spend time with the customer to listen and address all their needs.
Warby Parker, sells cheap mass produce frames, no name lenses, don't ask you any questions to determine your needs. They don't have a lab or frame manufacturing facility which means they buy and resell making them the middle men.
My profit margin is far less than Warby Parker's so I think this makes them the greedy middle men pretty much...
If someone comes in looking for a PD measurement then charge a fee. If they want an adjustment of their glasses not made by you then charge. People think these services should be free to promote better PR but guess what, these people will never refer nor buy glasses from you in the first place. That is why they bought them online!
Do not be apologetic to charge for your service. I see so many professionals give away their services for nothing. Optometrists included.
I have tried their home try on and the glasses are nothing to write home about. It is the same quality of glasses we would sell for $100 for less. Even the customers on Yelp state these are not primary wear glasses and only good for a second pair. The rate in which people buy glasses online is extremely small. Warby has a good PR machine and appear bigger than they really are. In order for them to get big is for them to open showrooms of their own. They have one opening in NYC but they need more than one and it requires more capital than they are able to raise. That is their weakness.
If you worry about Warby, they are only ONE such company. There are a ton of companies to worry about online. Here are just a FEW: classicspecs (which got into a spat with warby), eyespex, eyefly, DB vision (which is ideal because they have kiosks, cheaper than a showroom), etc. They all offer a free try on.
The concept of warby is nothing new. They were the ones to bring it to the forefront in the USA. There was an online optical in the UK I believe that offered free home try ons before, SEE optical offered their own brand (made in italy) with poly lenses for a low set price, and Tom's shoes offered a donation of a pair of shoes with every purchase a customer made. Combine all these and you have a business.
Last edited by denizen; 09-28-2012 at 12:48 PM.
+1 totally
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