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Thread: Optics not sharp with Vantage ?

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Optics not sharp with Vantage ?

    Anyone else have this problem? Patient in question may actually be the problem. Put her high (-9.00 ) Rx in a 55 smith wrap in poly and wrap compensated Poly Polar Vantage . She doesn't like the frame (her choice, ordered in to see first, I know, just shoot me, )She states the single vision poly is foggy, not sharp compared to her 1.67 Definity's . Is the problem psychological or problem with poly or Vantage? She's had problems with previous Polar , seeing streaks. I think she's seeing reflections from the edges which are polished but putting on an edge coat did not help. I'm ready to fire this patient. Any other thoughts ?

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
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    First thing springing to mind is the compensation portion. Perhaps the prismatic element is not to her needs causing a slight "blur" effect?
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    Anyone else have this problem? Patient in question may actually be the problem. Put her high (-9.00 ) Rx in a 55 smith wrap in poly and wrap compensated Poly Polar Vantage . She doesn't like the frame (her choice, ordered in to see first, I know, just shoot me, )She states the single vision poly is foggy, not sharp compared to her 1.67 Definity's . Is the problem psychological or problem with poly or Vantage? She's had problems with previous Polar , seeing streaks. I think she's seeing reflections from the edges which are polished but putting on an edge coat did not help. I'm ready to fire this patient. Any other thoughts ?

    -9.00 in a wrap?

    What:

    Base curve
    VD
    for an Rx of this range, anything greater than 3-4 base is a MISTAKE!

    B
    Last edited by Barry Santini; 09-13-2012 at 08:14 AM.

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    Master OptiBoarder mdeimler's Avatar
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    What Barry said...you pretty much answered your own questions. -9.00 in a wrap works so minimally that you really need to under promise the results to the patient. Set the bar so low that ANY vision seen through the lenses will be good enough.

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    -9.00 in a wrap......in poly!!!!!


    Just say no!

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    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    -9.00 in a wrap......in poly!!!!!


    Just say no!
    I'm with you on that, a recipe for failure. I hope this thread doesn't turn into the few exceptions that have done a -9.00 or higher in a wrap. No need for false hope with these patients.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    I'm ready to fire this patient.

    Why?

    You allowed this disaster!

  8. #8
    Rising Star
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    yeah, maybe you shouldn't use poly for such a RX.

  9. #9
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    -9.00 in a wrap......in poly!!!!!


    Just say no!
    Even I have to agree with this sentiment 100%. This should at-the-least have been done in a 1.60, but better would have been a 1.67, 1.70 or 1.74 (though I don't believe 1.74 is available Vantage currently). Proper wrap compensation is critical regardless, as would be POW measures.

    My first call would be to a wrap specialist like Ice Tech or the like. But I have to agree - NEVER poly in that Rx. DOUBLY so in that Rx with a wrap. Scotty and his laws of physics are very cross! ;)

  10. #10
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    Any thing over a 5.00 in Poly you can expect trouble, add a wrap to it and it isn't the patient who should be fired.


    Chip

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Well, all of you geniuses can look up the availability of vantage. Of course that wasn't my first choice but it was my only choice. Of couse you could have replied , for example, that you have, or have not had many satisfied Vantage customers. That was really my question.
    Last edited by rdcoach5; 09-15-2012 at 07:10 AM.

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    Master OptiBoarder NCspecs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    Well, all of you geniuses can look up the availability of vantage. Of course that wasn't my first choice but it was my only choice. Of couse you could have replied , for example, that you have, or have not had many satisfied Vantage customers. That was really my question.
    I have a patient who has been waiting very patiently for her 1.67 Vantage lenses since May. We got excited, took payment and then found ourselves looking foolish. Thankfully she is super cool and this is a "fun" pair for her so there is no immediate hurry. Whew!

    I wouldn't get too bent out of shape with everybody suggesting against poly, especially when informed of the rx and frame choice. When first presenting the issue I would've been forthcoming if I were you about the reasons behind using a poly lens versus high index. I think everyone is correct in their assessment. Just don't take it personal.

    I received a voucher for a poly Vantage and in the last two weeks of use I've had no issues except for some initial swim in the beginning. I've been wearing digitally surfaced SV Trivex exclusively so switching back to a standard surfaced poly may have been a come down. I have a very mild Rx OD -1.25 -0.25 X 102, OS -2.00 Sph. I like the clarity outdoors on partially sunny days, it's nice to take the dog to the park and not have to do the sunglass switcheroo especially with my hyper-active pooch in tow. I will be recommending it to my patients based on personal experience.
    "Strictly speaking, there are no enlightened beings; only enlightened activity." -Shunryu Suzuki

  13. #13
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    Well, all of you geniuses can look up the availability of vantage. Of course that wasn't my first choice but it was my only choice. Of couse you could have replied , for example, that you have, or have not had many satisfied Vantage customers. That was really my question.
    The availability of Vantage isn't the issue though is it? The fact that as a dispenser, a pair of glasses was ordered that would - under the best of conditions be dubious optically - just to use the new lens tech should really be under the spotlight. It really is no wonder at all that this patient doesn't care for the lenses. The frame itself should have been a big red flag regardless of Rx with a patient as picky as you state they are. It was all downhill from there. Hope you're able to find a mutually agreeable solution to the problem this frame/lens order created at any rate. With any luck, you can lower her expectations a good deal, and raise the bar on her next material/technology lens package to meet in the middle somewhere.

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    The availability of Vantage isn't the issue though is it? The fact that as a dispenser, a pair of glasses was ordered that would - under the best of conditions be dubious optically - just to use the new lens tech should really be under the spotlight. It really is no wonder at all that this patient doesn't care for the lenses. The frame itself should have been a big red flag regardless of Rx with a patient as picky as you state they are. It was all downhill from there. Hope you're able to find a mutually agreeable solution to the problem this frame/lens order created at any rate. With any luck, you can lower her expectations a good deal, and raise the bar on her next material/technology lens package to meet in the middle somewhere.

    Yeah, we refunded her money and fired her. She used to be a very pleasant lady and has developed a medical condition that made her disposition change- by her own admission. It really boiled down to the fact that she didn't like the frame.

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    Yeah, we refunded her money and fired her. She used to be a very pleasant lady and has developed a medical condition that made her disposition change- by her own admission. It really boiled down to the fact that she didn't like the frame.
    So the Vantage lenses weren't the issue after all?

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Blue Jumper a optician that could not say NO or did not KNOW that he should say NO...............

    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post

    Yeah, we refunded her money and fired her. She used to be a very pleasant lady and has developed a medical condition that made her disposition change- by her own admission. It really boiled down to the fact that she didn't like the frame.

    It actually boils down to a high myope that wanted to participate in the wrap frame fashion and a optician that could not say NO or did not KNOW that he should say NO.

    Hi myopes, have a very picky mind by nature and tend to lean on near or full perfection and any optician should keep that in mind when dealing with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    So the Vantage lenses weren't the issue after all?
    +1

    It sounds like you made the error and are now looking for excuses to try and shift the blame onto a patient who it sounds like, quite frankly, did nothing wrong but have a problem with a frame/RX combination she should never have gotten access to in the first place. Accept responsibility and acknowledge that you probably "fired" this woman for no good reason.

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    ...not trying to start an argument, Uileann. You're the one talking about putting a patient into a wrap frame with a huge plus RX in poly, then tacking on stuff after the fact about her having "problems."

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Browman View Post
    ...not trying to start an argument, Uileann. You're the one talking about putting a patient into a wrap frame with a huge plus RX in poly, then tacking on stuff after the fact about her having "problems."
    I think you've confused me with someone else. This isn't my patient - nor would be with that Rx/lens/frame combo.

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    maybe 55 eye with -9.00 is the problem what is the pd? and the 1.67 will have better optics
    Ray

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    OptiBoard Professional Jamelina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    Why?

    You allowed this disaster!

    +1!

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    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhogman View Post
    maybe 55 eye with -9.00 is the problem what is the pd? and the 1.67 will have better optics
    No, 1.67 will have worst optics then poly. The abbé is the same so CH. Abbé isn't going to be resolved and 1.67 is going to introduce a higher deviation of optics off axis then the lower index poly. The only saving grace to 1.67 would be that best form is achieved with a higher base then poly, but in either case off axis viewing will be compromised.

    Take a page from mauis handbook and imposed prescription limitations on wrap jobs.

  23. #23
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=PhiTrace;448505 The only saving grace to 1.67 would be that best form is achieved with a higher base then poly, but in either case off axis viewing will be compromised.[/QUOTE]

    PhiTrace: I used to think this way too, but if you check Darryl Opticampus, you'll see that higher indices require STEEPER bases to maintain base form.

    Counter intiutive to my previous thinking, but so it is.

    B

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    At some point in the life of a dispenser , everyone will probably make this mistake.

    Wisdom comes from experience .

    Welcome to the club rdcoach5


    Perhaps a thread on optical bloopers and their better solutions would be beneficial.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder NCspecs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    At some point in the life of a dispenser , everyone will probably make this mistake.
    Wisdom comes from experience .
    Welcome to the club rdcoach5
    Perhaps a thread on optical bloopers and their better solutions would be beneficial.

    I think a thread like this would be brilliant if we all had the ability to concede to brainless moments without being defensive. Unfortunately more than one of the contributors on Optiboard can't resist flaming their peers so I have a feeling that sort of thread would degenerate quickly.

    A pity, I've got a howler or two from waaaay back when I was a lab newbie. :)
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