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Thread: Need everyone's opinion

  1. #1
    OptiBoard Novice
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    Need everyone's opinion

    Hello everyone, My first post here. I've been an optician for almost 30 years....so yeah I was a baby.
    Technology has been changing so fast. And am really not comfortable with the online ordering thing, I feel as though we are back to the 1800"s and Sear's roebuck catalog. So here's the scoop. To confront this, I am interested in Hoya's new spectangle program/camera system to take accurate measurements and to somehow show patient's we are keeping up with technology. However
    I was not impressed with the clarity of the pictures that the i pad took. The light source has to be just right, and
    some of the things you have to do to take the measurements are a bit awkward...........before investing $1100
    dollars in this system, can any one give me some feedback???? It's geared for Hoya's lens"Mystyle", which is an
    awesome lens...........I love all of Hoya's products...........so give me a shout out, as to what you think!!!!!!

    It's getting more and more difficult competing with the online competitor, Great Service isn't enough any
    more..........and it really saddens me, that people don't realize what the online market, will forever change everything
    for everyone............and not in a good way...........so let me know what you think:)

  2. #2
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    Actually the Sears catalogue had a lot of advantages. Sears showed a profit back then. Now they can't afford to print and ship the catalogue, much less the merchandise. And with the catalogue you always had a back-up supply of toilet paper if the corn crop didn't come in.

    Chip

  3. #3
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    Moving this to the General Forum for better exposure!

  4. #4
    OptiBoardaholic J.P.'s Avatar
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    Welcome to the new age and OB, lol

    I like the Varilux VisoOffice The depth of measurments you get with it are far superior the the Hoya iPad app. I've tried pretty much all of them, and the iPad app is a great idea for smaller spaces, but you really need great lighting to get good measurments. The Varilux VisiOffice has a great lighting system on it that it very bright in order to get measurments lined up very well.

    Sucks you made that investment and are not happy.
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
    ~ Mark Twain ~

  5. #5
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    The Spectangle app cost $400, not $1100. I guess the other $700 is the cost of the ipad itself. The iPad 3 comes in three versions depending on the memory desired. The starting cost begins at $500.

    The camera on the iPad 3 is 5 MP, making the photos much better than the 1 MP camera on the iPad 2. The Spectangle app should be used on an iPad 3 only.

    Taking the free form measurements is only awkward in the beginning as any device takes time to get use to. What I liked about seeing each measurement was the ability for my opticians to see and understand what they are measuring. This has allowed them to better explain to the patients the reasoning behind each of the free form measurements.
    We have found the patients enjoy the personal experience of watching the measuring process as we go through each step.

    Overall, the cost is a one time fee for the app, with free updates for the life of the app. Spectangle can be put on up to five devices with the one license. We already have two ipads in the office that we use very frequently anyways, so this was an easy choice to make.

    On top of it all, Hoya is giving us $100 back for each MyStyle lens we sell in the first 90 days of purchasing the app. We have already sold five, so the app has been paid for.

  6. #6
    OptiBoardaholic jmchapman's Avatar
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    To be honest the people that are buying online aren't looking for technology in their glasses, they're looking for something cheap. And those MyStyle lenses are NOT cheap.

  7. #7
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    While I love the Hoya lenses and the reactions we get with them, Hoya's service has been severely lacking. Added that they have not been willing to give us any kind of discount and I can get my lenses for less from my independent labs we very, rarely using them. I was really interested in the app, but for the cost of said app and VSP releasing an app that syncs with eyefinity for substantially less we will not being going in the Hoya direction. And while it makes me sick to psuh VSP like this, here is the link. http://seeotto.com/

  8. #8
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    Just so you know, Dr. Shaw has tested the various measuring systems and found that standard measuring yielded more accurate results.
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy ~Benjamin Franklin

  9. #9
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Processing Hoya lenses in-house. www.luzerneoptical.com

  10. #10
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    I am concerned when professionals considering purchasing electronic measuring devises that do not give consistent accurate measurements. Just as when I see progressive lenses in a frame with an Eye exam for $ 69.00. I checked out some of the lesser expensive Ipad apps and found the measurements to be inconsistent and will lead to fitting errors and unhappy customers. Launching a cheap version could be disastrous for the your office, the patient, the lab, and the lens manufacturer. The reason the commercial industry has integrated using digital centration was to reduce fitting errors and to get consistent measurements so they could control their expenses ( redo's ) and provide better quality to their customers. They did an extensive research and was not looking for the cheapest option but a better option to manually measuring. If you use a devise that is inaccurate, it might be wiser to purchase a less expensive progressive lens and fit it properly. I own and use the Optikam and use it daily in my office. I also go to both VEW and VEE as a live testimonial as a user of the system. I can speak first hand on the accuracy and have found it to be a huge asset to my office. With taking only one frontal picture it makes it quick, easy and simple. Most other systems make you take two or three pictures ( Front and side or front side and top ). Parallax and head posture are essential for getting accurate measurements and many of these system do not accurately take this into play. The Optikam will be coming out with a Ipad app later this year and will accurately take all 5 measurements as it does with the Kiosk. So if you are looking for the Ipad option, wait till it come out later this year. They have a proven record and digital centration dispensing systems is their only business. A big problem I saw using the spectangle was when taking faceform you needed to get a 3rd picture from above the patients head looking down over the frame. I am only 5/7 so I would either need to stand on a chair or ask people to bend down. I also am not sure if women are going to feel comfortable with me taking a picture looking down be their shirt.
    Last edited by Opticianjw; 09-11-2012 at 10:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Without meaning to be disrespectful, I must again ask just what "reference" is being used by those ECPs who champion their digital centration devices as being more accurate/precise or better. It seems to me that when the device's reults are being vetted, then manual methods are being used, yes?

    B

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    Your point is right on Barry. Peter Shaw has done the most testing I know of, he is on Optiboard too. Peter, can you comment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Without meaning to be disrespectful, I must again ask just what "reference" is being used by those ECPs who champion their digital centration devices as being more accurate/precise or better. It seems to me that when the device's reults are being vetted, then manual methods are being used, yes?

    B
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy ~Benjamin Franklin

  13. #13
    OptiBoard Apprentice wilddevil's Avatar
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    Where the optikam ipad app wil be available? Liks or more info, pls.

  14. #14
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    Redhot Jumper but could be introduced as well on this continent ..................................

    Quote Originally Posted by laura red View Post

    It's getting more and more difficult competing with the online competitor, Great Service isn't enough any
    more..........and it really saddens me, that people don't realize what the online market, will forever change everything
    for everyone............and not in a good way...........so let me know what you think:)



    Out of 13 answer so far only one has replied to the real question.....................................and it has been one of the standard answers one sees on OptiBoard. All you can get from on line opticals is crap. Are you still pretending that the largest optical corporation has come to this status by supplying low standards ? Most OB members still admire their quality in their lenses and coatings.

    The second largest on-line optical on the web is wholly owned by the largest optical manufacturer in the world. They also are very active in other countries and trying out new ways of getting business to their side. Here is one example:


    Essilor set to expand bottom of the pyramid model
    PraveenBose / Chennai/ BangaloreJul 04, 2012, 00:45 IST

    Essilor India, the wholly owned subsidiary of France-basedEuro 2.4 billion Essilor International, is looking to expand its initiativetargeting the bottom of the pyramid model where it is trying to reach the thelowest segments of the society. The company which has been at this effort forthe past five years said that they are scaling this up and is looking to touch5,000 villages over a period of time.

    According to the company, their spectacles targeted at thissegment costs an average of Rs 250 and they are dispensed within an hour to avillager who otherwise would have not gone to an optician for want of time. “Ifthe worker spends more than one hour, he loses his wages. Hence, we have had tocome up with a model to ensure they come for vision correction,” said JayanthBhuvaraghan, Managing Director, Essilor India, and President — South Asia,ASEAN, Emerging Brands, Lab Operations & IT — AMERA (Asia-Pacific, MiddleEast, Russia and Africa). The spectacles are readied right on the spot whereEssilor holds the camp, often in some school in a village. But, it dispensesonly stock lenses. About 50-60 per cent of the spectacles that are dispensedare readymade

    “It’s aimed at a man who buys mobiles and garments, butdoesn’t give much of a thought to getting his vision corrected for fear of thecost,” he added.
    It takesproducts with hard-coating done at cheap rates and takes them to villages anddispenses them free of cost in association with Shankara Nethralaya andNarayana Nethralaya.
    When are they going to introduce a similar version to this continent ? At least start thinking.................................
    Last edited by Chris Ryser; 09-16-2012 at 04:35 AM.
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  15. #15
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    We can dispute the accuracy and the speed of taking measurements digitally vs manually but most Opticians will be using digital lenses and taking digital measurements over the next few years. Since most Opticians work for chains or Ophthalmologists and Optometrist, Opticians will be using digital systems in the near future. I go to both VEE and VEW as a live testimonial for Optikam, (one of the leaders in digital dispensing systems with digital centration ) Most of the major chains are moving toward this technology. If they haven’t already integrated, they will be shortly. The same applies to many of the independent Ophthalmologists and Optometrist offices. Lens manufacturers are retooling to process lenses with digital technology, if they haven’t done so already. Lens manufacturers will require the added measurements to make some of the more advanced lenses. Taking measurements like face form, panto angle and vertex distance are optional now but will be mandated in the future and very difficult to take manually. Some opticians fear that this technology will end their career. Many Opticians prefer the status quo and would prefer to go back rather than move forward. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you view this advancement in technology we can not stop it but see how we can integrate it, so we can be more proficient and produce a better product . I am sure some optometrists were concerned when the auto refractor first became available. They must have had the same concerns about the end of Optometry but as you can see it has not. It is a tool that makes them more proficient and aid them in giving the proper prescription. There are a few proactive Opticians that already purchased digital systems, many more are reactive and are now purchasing digital systems as they see the need to compete with there competitors but unfortunately far too many remaining “ non active “ opticians will continue to watch the industry pass them by. If you are planning on going to the National Opticians Association in Washington DC in November, I will be one of the speakers at the round table discussion speaking on this topic. If you are not going but would like to discuss this further, feel free to call me at my office 732-350-1900.

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