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Thread: Optometrist vs Optician

  1. #1
    OptiBoard Apprentice NeaOptikiSA's Avatar
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    Blue Jumper Optometrist vs Optician

    I suppose that these two professions are almost same worldwide! In Greece it is not! Optician is the person who is able according the law to serve consumers for making prescription frames, but he is not licensed to exam the patient.

    The optometrist is something that does not exist in Greece. Either you are a doctor or an optician!

    Is it like this to any other country?

    Angel the Greek
    Eyewear manufacturer
    Handmade optical frames and sunglasses 100% made in Greece
    www.neaoptiki.com www.elgrecoeyewear.com

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    In the 1950's the College of Optometry of Philadelphia advertised in European Optical Magazines that European opticians could purchase the doctor title in Optometry for $ 200.00.

    Today that is not possible anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    In the 1950's the College of Optometry of Philadelphia advertised in European Optical Magazines that European opticians could purchase the doctor title in Optometry for $ 200.00.

    Today that is not possible anymore.
    I've seen those. In Quebec at the time optometrists who graduated from the University of Montreal school of optometry didn't get the "OD" degree, as I suppose the program wasn't recognized as meeting the standards? of US optometry schools.
    So it goes.

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    I think Optometry is recognized mainly in Anglo Saxon countries, UK USA Canada Australia and some others.

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    As far as "the battle" it was fought in '60's and 70's. Opticians failed to show up or pay for the amunition. The optometrists one hands down. Now they are going for the OMD's. Already they can prescribe and sell drugs, which OMD's cannot do.


    Chip

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    OptiWizard
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    What drugs can an OD sell?

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    Optical Curmudgeon EyeManFla's Avatar
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    When I was in DC in the 70's and 80's, none of the opticians worked for an OD. They worked for other opticians and their main client sourse was MDs. Now, almost every optician I know works for an OD (including myself) and the battle is between ODs and MDs. My experience...ODs pay much better than MDs as ODs at least have a clue what a really good optician can do for them. Now, having said that..most ODs don't want to pay you crap.....
    "Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde"

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    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Montreal school of optometry didn't get the "OD" degree, as I suppose the program wasn't recognized as meeting the standards? of US optometry schools.
    The emphasis and scope of optometry in the US has changed considerably over the past 50 years, with an increasing shift toward more of a medical-oriented role as a "primary" eyecare provider. Their expansion of scope of practice has included the ability to prescribe various diagnostic/therapeutic pharmaceutical agents, perform minor surgerical procedures (like foreign body removal), and manage glaucoma in many states.

    Prior to the 1960s, however, the emphasis of optometry was limited primarily to prescribing optical appliances like spectacle lenses. Optometrists were trained and licensed to evaluate the refractive status of the eyes, and were essentially a kind of "refracting optician." Some European countries, like Germany, still have refracting opticians. While some countries, like Great Britain, I believe are moving more toward the "optometrist versus optician" model. And there are European countries that have neither refracting opticians nor optometrists.

    Best regards,
    Darryl
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

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    Quote Originally Posted by OHPNTZ View Post
    What drugs can an OD sell?
    Curious about that too?

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    Appearently OD's can sell anything they can prescribe. Noticed all the cataloges that used to be optical and exam goods now including more drugs than exam devises? I have see some examples of patients who went to the O.D. and dropped over $1300.00 on "medications" for conditions that a retinal specialist later said he didn't have. And no I'm not going to say what "Doctor".
    The reason MD's were and supposedly are not allowed to own drug stores or sell drugs was mearly this and nothing more. Pity they no longer feel this applies to eyeglasses.

    Chip

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Appearently OD's can sell anything they can prescribe. Noticed all the cataloges that used to be optical and exam goods now including more drugs than exam devises? I have see some examples of patients who went to the O.D. and dropped over $1300.00 on "medications" for conditions that a retinal specialist later said he didn't have. And no I'm not going to say what "Doctor".
    The reason MD's were and supposedly are not allowed to own drug stores or sell drugs was mearly this and nothing more. Pity they no longer feel this applies to eyeglasses.

    Chip
    It was short lived Chip. The insurance companies have wrestled the lenses out of their hands and what remains Obama Care will remove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Appearently OD's can sell anything they can prescribe. Noticed all the cataloges that used to be optical and exam goods now including more drugs than exam devises? I have see some examples of patients who went to the O.D. and dropped over $1300.00 on "medications" for conditions that a retinal specialist later said he didn't have. And no I'm not going to say what "Doctor".
    The reason MD's were and supposedly are not allowed to own drug stores or sell drugs was mearly this and nothing more. Pity they no longer feel this applies to eyeglasses.

    Chip
    +1

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Appearently OD's can sell anything they can prescribe. Noticed all the cataloges that used to be optical and exam goods now including more drugs than exam devises? I have see some examples of patients who went to the O.D. and dropped over $1300.00 on "medications" for conditions that a retinal specialist later said he didn't have. And no I'm not going to say what "Doctor".
    The reason MD's were and supposedly are not allowed to own drug stores or sell drugs was mearly this and nothing more. Pity they no longer feel this applies to eyeglasses.

    Chip
    Chip, you have made this unsubstantiated claim several times on OB. Someone needs to call you out.

    Some states do allow physicians to sell drugs, but they are in the distinct minority. This is controlled by state law. In these states, ODs and MDs are allowed to sell, not just the ODs. You refer to "medications" for the retina. Why don't you just call them vitamins since that's what they are. Anybody can sell vitamins. Grocery stores sell vitamins. Opticians can sell vitamins. I can agree that some vitamin sellers charge exorbitant fees for otherwise common products, but others don't. But dishonest people sell overpriced frames and lenses too.

    MDs give injections to treat retinal disease and get paid for them...are you suggesting they shouldn't?...or do you just like to grind your old axe and try to make everybody else but yourself look bad? Actually...you do make yourself look bad with your inappropriate bashing of others who are not like you.

    The OP was asking about the professions in other places and the best you can come up with is that some optometrists sell vitamins?

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    on that note, about "selling" - here ophthalmologists are printing money with lucentis injections, botox just to name a few. Doesn't selling surgery (lasik) count too? MDs used to knock ODs for the advertising "hustle" of eyewear. Now Lasik ads are about as numerous as car ads. So please, please, take a step back. A handful of ODs sell some vitalux or contact lens solution and this is an issue? You are comparing Blue Whales and dust mites here. Pharmacists, trained professionals with science degrees, at least here in Quebec, sell Homeopathic "treatments".

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    Quote Originally Posted by optimensch View Post
    on that note, about "selling" - here ophthalmologists are printing money with lucentis injections, botox just to name a few. Doesn't selling surgery (lasik) count too? MDs used to knock ODs for the advertising "hustle" of eyewear. Now Lasik ads are about as numerous as car ads. So please, please, take a step back. A handful of ODs sell some vitalux or contact lens solution and this is an issue? You are comparing Blue Whales and dust mites here. Pharmacists, trained professionals with science degrees, at least here in Quebec, sell Homeopathic "treatments".
    Don't you know...OMDs should send out their Lucentis Rxs to Chip. He is the only honest, ethical dispenser left....OK, I'll stop now.

    NeaOptiki...How and why the three Os developed the way they did throughout the world is wide open to many opinions. I'd like to think that they developed out of education and need, not out of ignorance and greed.

    In the US (and many other English speaking countries), it seemed more efficient to train experts in vision without training them in surgery, how to deliver a baby, or set a broken bone. Just like how we train dentists without being a medical doctor first.

    I can speak somewhat for optometry as I am one, but basically it grew to what it is today by adding ever increasing educational requirements. What started out as an apprenticeship trade has turned into an 8 year college and doctoral degree program. Many ODs now add an additional 9th year residency. Scope expansion was based on education being in place. Yes...it takes money to enact change to educate lawmakers and the public, and it certainly takes money to fight the forces of monopoly that try to keep people down. And as this is mostly an optician forum, and before anybody lashes into me for my opinion, I must say I respect any professions attempt to increase education and standards.
    Last edited by fjpod; 08-29-2012 at 06:51 AM.

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    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpod View Post
    Don't you know...OMDs should send out their Lucentis Rxs to Chip. He is the only honest, ethical dispenser left....OK, I'll stop now.

    NeaOptiki...How and why the three Os developed the way they did throughout the world is wide open to many opinions. I'd like to think that they developed out of education and need, not out of ignorance and greed.

    In the US (and many other English speaking countries), it seemed more efficient to train experts in vision without training them in surgery, how to deliver a baby, or set a broken bone. Just like how we train dentists without being a medical doctor first.

    I can speak somewhat for optometry as I am one, but basically it grew to what it is today by adding ever increasing educational requirements. What started out as an apprenticeship trade has turned into an 8 year college and doctoral degree program. Many ODs now add an additional 9th year residency. Scope expansion was based on education being in place. Yes...it takes money to enact change to educate lawmakers and the public, and it certainly takes money to fight the forces of monopoly that try to keep people down. And as this is mostly an optician forum, and before anybody lashes into me for my opinion, I must say I respect any professions attempt to increase education and standards.
    8 years of education and money spent on learning your profession. No need to waste a post explaining your position. You have earned your position in the ophthalmic arena. I find it interesting that others here with very little skin in the game have room to call the profession theirs. As an optometrist you have come in as an optician (that was day one in school) and surpassed that to the level of optometrist.

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    In Sweden, we have refracting opticians. An optician has finished a three-year course on university level, with the option to study another year in order to obtain an MSc. A few have an MD degree. The basic optician is pretty much an optometrist, but not licensed to prescribe eyeglasses to children under eight years of age, use mydriatica, or prescribe e.g. IOP-lowering meds. Things are in a state of flux, though, with most older opticians providing basic refractions, while some younger hot-shots have a more academic slant. As most older opticians had been trained in lab techniques, they were used to lab work, but since about 15 years, lab techniques are only taught for five weeks or so during the three-year course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhiTrace View Post
    8 years of education and money spent on learning your profession. No need to waste a post explaining your position. You have earned your position in the ophthalmic arena. I find it interesting that others here with very little skin in the game have room to call the profession theirs. As an optometrist you have come in as an optician (that was day one in school) and surpassed that to the level of optometrist.
    Well, thanks for the nod...although I feel I didn't become a decent optician until I was practicing a few years...

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    Why optometry ( list ads under opticians and optometry in the phone books) If I went 8 years to college to be an OD I would list as optometrist not optician. OD's have identity problems.
    Donald D Price

    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Quote Originally Posted by price View Post
    Why optometry ( list ads under opticians and optometry in the phone books) If I went 8 years to college to be an OD I would list as optometrist not optician. OD's have identity problems.
    Actually, it's just good marketing. In the few markets that I still have a phone book presence (not many) I list my offices under as many headings as possible. I list every one of my ODs, my office, and my opticians separate.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Redhot Jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by optimensch View Post

    I think Optometry is recognized mainly in Anglo Saxon countries, UK USA Canada Australia and some others.
    Optometry is recognized in all European Council Countries including Switzerland and Sweden.

    See -------------------> http://www.ecoo.info/


    WELCOME
    to the website of the European Council of Optometry and Optics

    ECOO-online at your service: On this page you will find information about our organisation, our aims and our activities. In future we will also provide information about vision, visual health, optometry and optics.










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    ABOC-NCLEC tigerlilly's Avatar
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    I went through this confusion with international patients a few times, and it's just a difference of language. In the UK (and elsewhere in Europe???), optician is what they call the person who does the exam. I don't remember what they call the person who dispenses the glasses.

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