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Thread: Making Optiboard a more welcoming place!

  1. #26
    Master OptiBoarder
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    First of all, Fezz just made my list of good **** on the planet.
    I think that often what newbies require isn't book learnin', it's context and interpretation of seeming contraditions of textbook phrases.
    I've tried to offer answers, like those I could have used many years ago, to questions about common areas of confusion: Prism, the EM spectrum, that kind of thing.
    I feel the obligation to pay forward the help I received back when internet shoppers didn't make us all defensive.
    I don't propose to be a shopping-info service, I propose to support a civil help-a-newbie-today service.

    Bravo Fezz. I respect you greatly. I hope that the community agrees to be, well, a community.

  2. #27
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post

    I'm sorry for the bad apple, but unfortunately such people are a fact of life, particularly in the online and anonymous world of the Internet. It's important to keep in mind that you will always run into jerks wherever you go. The only thing within your control is how you respond. Don't let the jerks get to you. They really aren't important enough to give them any power over your life.

    Out of Members (today) = 20,804, we have Active Members = 1,365. Therefore any newbie active poster has been lurking in the backyard long before they start to become active poster. They have watched the process and are familiar with it. They have seen how it works and do start on familiar grounds.

    In my eyes they do not need any hand holding. Most of the question by a newbie are made just to feel the grounds and make some first steps.
    I have seen so many developing into snotty posters within record short times.
    Actually I do not see the need for a baby patting and hand holding service on OptiBoard.

  3. #28
    Optimentor Diane's Avatar
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    I will share what knowledge I have. Thanks for the opportunity. Sometimes it's the looking something up that makes us better. Dipping WAY down in our feeble brains is not a bad thing to do. It may even keep us older Optiboarders, young.

    Diane
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  4. #29
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    It occurred to me that we already have a forum entitled "Questions, Feedback, and Help. Perhaps it would accomplish the same purpose if we just change the title to Newbies Mentor Corner. Much simpler (I think!) In the early days of Optiboard I used to send a welcome note to each member, but it became too time consuming to maintain with the increased level of new members. Its a great idea Fezz but you have to keep it manageable. Changing the name of the forum is the easiest way out.
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  5. #30
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    That is a good idea Harry.

    In your opinion, do you think that newbies would use that type of forum to get their feet wet before jumping in?

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Browneyes1208 View Post
    I am a "newbie" and asked my first question not long ago. I was met with very mean-spirited replies by one person in general. Most of the people were very kind. I was VERY discouraged! I received many private notifications of apologies by the nice people on here, but I also received some that said they were met with the same kind of replies as a
    "newbie". Some things some people do every day may not be something that someone else is familiar with. I don't think newbies want to be held by the hand, but to make them feel like they are not asking a stupid question would be nice. I like that idea.
    Thank you for sharing this! Your experience and some comments in that thread were pivotal in my thought process! I had been thinking it for a long time and that put me over the edge!

    I appreciate your input! Thank you!

  7. #32
    OptiWizard
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    When I first joined optiboard I jumped right in and was met with hostility not because of a stupid question but an opinion. This very quickly turned me off and I almost stopped posting completly and probably would have if someone wasn't kind enough to reach out. I would also like to point out that maybe the newb asking a question here is doing so because they have no one else to ask face to face. I think a mentoring forum or newb forum would be a great idea! I also think think reaching out to all the new members who join right after taking the test to get their ABO would be a great place to start.

  8. #33
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    In my eyes they do not need any hand holding. Most of the question by a newbie are made just to feel the grounds and make some first steps.
    I have seen so many developing into snotty posters within record short times.
    Frankly it is wrong to prejudge a new poster on the assumption they are going to be 'snotty' in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Actually I do not see the need for a baby patting and hand holding service on OptiBoard.
    No one is talking about 'hand holding'. We are talking about common courtesy and professionalism.


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  9. #34
    Slowly Going Crazy Kara's Avatar
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    I don't think it's necessary to hold our hands and wipe drool off our chins, but encouragement is nice. Letting us ask our questions without be subjected to ridicule and humiliation is not that hard to ask.

    I always learned so much more when an older optician patiently explained things to me than I ever did when someone was screaming at me. I can also understand that you all are busy and have a thousand and one things that you HAVE to do. Taking time out of your day to answer a question you learned 30yrs ago and I should know by now is frustrating.

    The only thing I would say is just keep in mind that our biggest hope as newbies is that one day we will possess the experience and knowledge that you all have right now. We(well, some of us) are coming to you with respect, and admiration. Don't meet that with snarky, haughty attitudes and we'll get there someday.

    That being said, I think us newbies should come in a bit more humble. Recognize who the elders are and be respectful. Most of all PAY ATTENTION. Quit asking the same questions that have been answered time and time again. Work hard, investigate, research and learn. I am very surprised at what I have been able to teach myself over the years. And, yes a slightly thicker skin is needed in this industry.

    My point is, it's not just the elders, and it's not just the newbies. It's a group effort. Mistakes are made daily, that's just human life. It's what we learn from those mistakes and take with us that matter.

    Thanks Fezz!!!
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  10. #35
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    Wave

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    I know this isn't in the spirit of this thread, but I'd like to share why the "stupid" questions annoy me. I don't mind the intelligent questions, but the ones displaying a near total lack of knowledge that any optician should posess from someone calling himself an optician really gets my hackles up. It's because I call myself an optician as well, and that person is giving us all a bad name. Now I realize that keeping that individual ignorant, not helping him progress, is furthering the bad name. So I help anyway. Sometimes grudgingly.

    I can't help but think none of this would be a problem if we had standards. That's the point of that ABO survey. Does an optician encounter this or that in the first two years? Yep. Should know all that stuff before practicing as an optician. Those surveys are being used to support a position that many are pushing for.

    Anyone else?
    right but say someone gets hired into this field with NO experience (as i was, for example) and needed to be able to ask someone the stupid questions without being ridiculed or made to feel like they are completely unwelcome? I've been an optician for three years now, and i still ask stupid questions, there is a lot to know. Sometimes this is the only way someone will be able to learn, and when we're unwelcoming to a new person they're not going to want to use this board as an educational tool like they should be able to. Personally i started with my company working with people who were completely unwilling to help me learn, were rude when i asked questions, almost to the point where i left. Being the stubborn person that I am, i made it a point to educate myself since they wouldn't, and i used our company profile to access this board and it was a long time before i felt like i could create my own without having my ego killed. We should be helping people approach a new career with confidence. Otherwise we would be a dying breed
    "what i need is a strong drink and a peer group." ... Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy

  11. #36
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    We are a dying breed. The current method of bringing others into this field is failing us all. Someone should not be unleashed on the public as an optician until they have been trained, preferably formally. That's my point. What is an optician if anyone can do it at day one? It is literally NOTHING. That must change.
    I don't suppose anyone actually noticed that I pointed out that I realize I have to work with the system we have until it can be changed, or that I also volunteered to help others and do so often, when you quoted me.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  12. #37
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    As someone who has gone through the current system I would agree that it isn't a good one. I would also like to say a simple comment from Wes is the reason I stayed. Truth is if someone asks a question you deem stupid you don't have to respond to it. It is unecessary to belittle people for their lack of knowledge just don't respond, its not that hard.

  13. #38
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    Good Morning,

    This morning a patient came into the office after having routine eye exam. Her final RX was OD:-4.75 -1.00 x 150 /OS: -6.50 -1.00 x 180 ADD:+2.50. Now, in her previous pair, she was wearing the Hi-Index 1.67 with an Ellipse PAL and a MFH of 17. We collectively decided to upgrade her frame to one with more depth than the previous. Her MFH in the new pair was about 18.5 and she also wanted to try out the Hi Index 1.74 lenses as well, I kept her in the Ellipse. My question is; considering the change in MFH should I have also changed her type of PAL? The reason why I elected not to change the Ellipse is because she has been wearing that specific type of PAL for a few years. Was this the correct solution?

    Once again, forgive my ignorance on the subject, I am just trying to learn the best I can.

  14. #39
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcjilson View Post
    It occurred to me that we already have a forum entitled "Questions, Feedback, and Help. Perhaps it would accomplish the same purpose if we just change the title to Newbies Mentor Corner. Much simpler (I think!) In the early days of Optiboard I used to send a welcome note to each member, but it became too time consuming to maintain with the increased level of new members. Its a great idea Fezz but you have to keep it manageable. Changing the name of the forum is the easiest way out.
    Why not retitle that forum as "Optical Basics"? It could also include some of the downloads that are located elsewhere on the board and a listing of relevant websites.

  15. #40
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    Of course I am going to be little bias in responding but I believe that in any respective field there are going to be new hires that have absolutely no experience. Even in the event that they do, that does not necessarily mean that they'll understand the protocol of whatever particular institution they find themselves employed. I think that people often forget that they too once had no knowledge nor experience and they inevitably had to attain that knowledge from someone! I greatly appreciate people like Fezz and anyone else who still understands that and is willing to extend a helping hand. We appreciate it!

  16. #41
    Master OptiBoarder
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    The bottom line is we should all be nice to people. It's a basic concept that is going the way of the dinosaurs.

  17. #42
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    Geeze, I hope this doesn't result in everyone appologising for thier questions in advance.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Geeze, I hope this doesn't result in everyone appologising for thier questions in advance.
    Lol, that is annoying.

    I will say that I'm guilty of not doing a search of the forums to maybe get an answer before I post a thread. I think that this may prevent some of us who are on here all the time stop getting grumpy when someone new asks the same questions that have just been beaten to death the previous week.

    This of course is no excuse for being a big jerkface to new people.

  19. #44
    Master OptiBoarder kat's Avatar
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    Count me in!! Great idea Fezz. I have always responded to the PM's I get. I will offer my advice freely to any who ask.
    I came, I saw, I left

  20. #45
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Grabs popcorn...

    Great concept Fezz (as usual), though unlikely it will take root here on OB.

  21. #46
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Grabs popcorn...

    Great concept Fezz (as usual), though unlikely it will take root here on OB.
    And why is that exactly? Are you saying that you are unable to act courteously and professionally yourself?


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  22. #47
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    And why is that exactly? Are you saying that you are unable to act courteously and professionally yourself?
    Oh come on Steve. You well know the negative attitudes present here, and the industry perception of these boards. It's been here for years - long before I began actively posting here - and shows no sign of doing anything but growing. I'd love to see it all change. But the reality is that's unlikely.

  23. #48
    Master OptiBoarder AngeHamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledzinator View Post
    When I first joined optiboard I jumped right in and was met with hostility not because of a stupid question but an opinion. This very quickly turned me off and I almost stopped posting completly and probably would have if someone wasn't kind enough to reach out. I would also like to point out that maybe the newb asking a question here is doing so because they have no one else to ask face to face.
    My early experience on OB was almost identical to this. And I was in no way a newbie; I was just a new member. I've been on home theater and gaming forums with more civil discourse than OptiBoard routinely displays.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: as long as the banner across the top of every page reads, "The Premier Online Community for Optical Professionals," professional and courteous discourse is reasonable to expect from every member, every time.

    I'm glad to read so many people with a commitment to welcoming and politeness.
    I'm Andrew Hamm and I approve this message.

  24. #49
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Oh come on Steve. You well know the negative attitudes present here, and the industry perception of these boards. It's been here for years - long before I began actively posting here - and shows no sign of doing anything but growing. I'd love to see it all change. But the reality is that's unlikely.
    Then I look forward to you leading by example.


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  25. #50
    Optimentor Diane's Avatar
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    I may not be the oldest member or the longest member, but I DO remember when we were polite to each other. As a matter of fact I seem to remember that other members made a point of recognizing the things that each of us excelled at and that was how a lot of the information was spread. I think we can get there again. I know we can get there again.

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