Making Optiboard a more welcoming place!

[Johns]

My manager at Costco had been a dispensing optician for 5 years and still couldn't pass the ABO exam.

We have unlicensed apprentices in our business who make minimum wage, yet can do great adjustments, instantly steer patients away from frames that are unsuitable for their Rx or facial characteristics, and generally ARE FAR BETTER opticians than I am with my newly minted license.

I'll refrain from comment, and let the quotes speak for themselves.

(I am so glad I'll be out of this business in 10 years!)

[oopsmyeye]

Your mgr had optical experience but poor test taking skills. We have unlicensed apprentices in our business who make minimum wage, yet can do great adjustments, instantly steer patients away from frames that are unsuitable for their Rx or facial characteristics, and generally ARE FAR BETTER opticians than I am with my newly minted license.

Tell the truth, was your mgr a better optician than you with your ABO/NCLE?

Right when I took the test she was a better optician but after a couple months... no. She didn't have problem solving skills and I was a double major in 2 problem solving fields. She was good for Costco because she thought inside the box and she was a capable manager whereas I spend all my time outside the box dreaming of new problems to solve before they even arise.

[pseudonym]

Right when I took the test she was a better optician but after a couple months... no. She didn't have problem solving skills and I was a double major in 2 problem solving fields. She was good for Costco because she thought inside the box and she was a capable manager whereas I spend all my time outside the box dreaming of new problems to solve before they even arise.

Fair enough. I work in warehouse retail myself. I was shocked after spending two years learning about optics to find the actual job involved more about getting around corporate baloney than about optics.

[pseudonym]

I'll refrain from comment, and let the quotes speak for themselves.

(I am so glad I'll be out of this business in 10 years!)

Interesting koan. What is more important to being a good optician- passing scores on tests or experience in the field?

[oopsmyeye]

Fair enough. I work in warehouse retail myself. I was shocked after spending two years learning about optics to find the actual job involved more about getting around corporate baloney than about optics.

Too true. It wasn't necessarily corporate baloney for me but rather having to deal with cookie cutter solutions to problems that might need more than alphabet shaped cookies.

[oopsmyeye]

Getting back on topic about the curt attitude of some on here... I think one of the frustrations some people have is that some of these questions come from people that don't actually care about the profession. Too frequently these beginner "opticians" are only working as an optician because their OD uncle got them a summer job at a LC or Americas Best or some place like that. I've fielded too many questions over the phone from "opticians" asking me to fax a distance only Rx or reading only Rx because our doctor only wrote a script for a bifocal.

I can understand the frustrations... but we can at least be courteous enough to not reply if we are suspect. Also, shame on whoever is in charge of hiring these fools that fall into opticianry because they just needed a temporary job (as opposed to wanting to work in optics).

[wmcdonald]

Interesting koan. What is more important to being a good optician- passing scores on tests or experience in the field?

If you do something incorrectly 1000 times, it is still incorrect. If they have significant experience, and have been trained well, the test should not be a problem. It is designed as a measure of basic, entry-level knowledge. So, to answer your question, both are important. But experience is only valid when it is the right experience.

[Diane]

If you do something incorrectly 1000 times, it is still incorrect. If they have significant experience, and have been trained well, the test should not be a problem. It is designed as a measure of basic, entry-level knowledge. So, to answer your question, both are important. But experience is only valid when it is the right experience.

Had a woman who had failed the practical exam in our state a few times come to me for help. She had been in the optical "business" for almost 20 years, and wanted her license. I was teaching her how to correctly measure the measurements of a frame with lenses inserted. She was wrapping the ruler over the lenses, which was giving an incorrect measurement. I showed her the correct way to measure, and her comment was, "well, this is how I was taught my my first manager, and I've been doing it this way for almost 20 years, now". My answer to her was...."well, you've been doing it wrong for almost 20 years, now". So I told her you can continue the way you have been doing it and continue to fail, or you can do it correctly and pass. Your choice.

Diane

[wmcdonald]

Had a woman who had failed the practical exam in our state a few times come to me for help. She had been in the optical "business" for almost 20 years, and wanted her license. I was teaching her how to correctly measure the measurements of a frame with lenses inserted. She was wrapping the ruler over the lenses, which was giving an incorrect measurement. I showed her the correct way to measure, and her comment was, "well, this is how I was taught my my first manager, and I've been doing it this way for almost 20 years, now". My answer to her was...."well, you've been doing it wrong for almost 20 years, now". So I told her you can continue the way you have been doing it and continue to fail, or you can do it correctly and pass. Your choice.

Diane

That is the simple fallacy of the outdated, outmoded, and completely ridiculous system we call apprenticeship. It is nothing more than cheap labor, and the reason some form of education should be required prior to entering this field. Many "opticians" have no clue what they do not know. We are not treating these folks fairly, and are dumbing down the field with each generation.

[Johns]

"well, this is how I was taught my my first manager, and I've been doing it this way for almost 20 years, now". My answer to her was...."well, you've been doing it wrong for almost 20 years, now".

Diane

You've gotta love it when you hear that! Often, it is someone that was trained by someone that was never trained.

[Now I See]

None of us know what we do not know. The big step is admitting that we don't know, once that is done, then we can move on to find someone to help us...that's where this forum comes in. Personally, I'm surprised to see that there is ANY debate on Fezz's proposal....I mean what's the big deal, if you feel the need to berate and belittle, then don't bother answering in that thread...seems pretty straightforward...I say go for it, Fezz!!!

[Johns]

None of us know what we do not know. The big step is admitting that we don't know, once that is done, then we can move on to find someone to help us...that's where this forum comes in.

I don't know what you're trying to say!

[Now I See]

I don't know what you're trying to say!

LOL...you'll know it, when you know it...you know what I mean??

[Barry Santini]

Interesting koan. What is more important to being a good optician- passing scores on tests or experience in the field?

Neither and both.

The real bottom line: Accomplishment...where knowledge experience,SKILL, and a scientific approach are needed for the complete recipe.

B

[Robert Martellaro]

None of us know what we do not know. The big step is admitting that we don't know, once that is done, then we can move on...

That sounds so...Rumsfeldian!

None of us knows anything, not even whether we know or do not know, nor do we know whether not knowing and knowing exist, nor in general whether there is anything or not.

-Metrodorus of Chios

[uncut]

That sounds so...Rumsfeldian!

None of us knows anything, not even whether we know or do not know, nor do we know whether not knowing and knowing exist, nor in general whether there is anything or not.

-Metrodorus of Chios

Oooooh, that is so profound, and I want what you're smokin'!

[Wes]

If you do something incorrectly 1000 times, it is still incorrect. If they have significant experience, and have been trained well, the test should not be a problem. It is designed as a measure of basic, entry-level knowledge. So, to answer your question, both are important. But experience is only valid when it is the right experience.

Had a woman who had failed the practical exam in our state a few times come to me for help. She had been in the optical "business" for almost 20 years, and wanted her license. I was teaching her how to correctly measure the measurements of a frame with lenses inserted. She was wrapping the ruler over the lenses, which was giving an incorrect measurement. I showed her the correct way to measure, and her comment was, "well, this is how I was taught my my first manager, and I've been doing it this way for almost 20 years, now". My answer to her was...."well, you've been doing it wrong for almost 20 years, now". So I told her you can continue the way you have been doing it and continue to fail, or you can do it correctly and pass. Your choice.

Diane

That is the simple fallacy of the outdated, outmoded, and completely ridiculous system we call apprenticeship. It is nothing more than cheap labor, and the reason some form of education should be required prior to entering this field. Many "opticians" have no clue what they do not know. We are not treating these folks fairly, and are dumbing down the field with each generation.

You've gotta love it when you hear that! Often, it is someone that was trained by someone that was never trained.

Dunning–Kruger effect:

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.
Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"

Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

1. tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2. fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
3. fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
4. recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they are exposed to training for that skill

Although the Dunning–Kruger effect was put forward in 1999, David Dunning and Justin Kruger have quoted Charles Darwin ("Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge")^[3] and Bertrand Russell ("One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision")^[4] as authors who have recognised the phenomenon.

[wmcdonald]

Wes, Dunning-Kruger may or may not be the case here. It throws too large a blanket over too diverse population, but does provide some insight over the plight we face. Thanks for your insight. Your dollars in the graduate program were well spent.

[Robert Martellaro]

I thought this thread was about "Making Optiboard a more welcoming place", not about the incompetence of America's opticians?

[oopsmyeye]

I thought this thread was about "Making Optiboard a more welcoming place", not about the incompetence of America's opticians?

The reasoning behind OB being a cruel place for newbies to be is because of the incompetence of America's (or other) opticians.

[Judy Canty]

The reasoning behind OB being a cruel place for newbies to be is because of the incompetence of America's (or other) opticians.

Are you including yourself in that description? After all, Las Vegas is still an American city.

[oopsmyeye]

I'm new here, I've only got 15 posts... I hope I haven't been an intolerant jerk so far!

[Chris Ryser]

Obviously this thread now has lived its useful life and is now on its last leg to the OptiBoard cemetary.

In the exactly 2 weeks of its life it has made Replies: 121, and Views: 4,473 before deviating into other issues. I always find it interesting that some threads start out like an avalanche but ebb out into something else before everybody looses interest.

Has it achieved its intentions ? We will find out.

[LSUpaul20]

To redirect this thread back to the original point, I would like to share my experience so far on OptiBoard. I have only been a member for only one week. I posted on here to find new ideas, help, and etcetera to start-up an optical shop. I have to give credit to everyone that took their time to welcoming me and sharing their thoughts. I might be one of the lucky one that didn't get insulted or harassed, but positive feedback is also important and not overlooked. Again, thank you for welcoming me and helping me out with my journey. Thanks.

Obviously this thread now has lived its useful life and is now on its last leg to the OptiBoard cemetary.

In the exactly 2 weeks of its life it has made Replies: 121, and Views: 4,473 before deviating into other issues. I always find it interesting that some threads start out like an avalanche but ebb out into something else before everybody looses interest.

Has it achieved its intentions ? We will find out.

[Now I See]

Obviously this thread now has lived its useful life and is now on its last leg to the OptiBoard cemetary.

RIP...dear thread...RIP

Has it achieved its intentions ? We will find out.

I hope so...sounded like Fezz had a good start, and many responded in a positive manner.