Is it worth it to have your own in-house lab?

[mattc-ait]

Keep in mind vsp has an in-office finishing lab program, if I recall correctly the reimbursement rates make it worthwhile. I think you can find more information at their eyefinity website. If you take vsp work it may be worth looking into. We actually have a program in place for those starting a new lab that are doing VSP work. We offer rebates toward lenses from VSP as well as other perks, we put together a vsp in-office finishing profit analysis form here. Right click save-as to download or just click it to view in your browser, plug your numbers in and it should do the math for you. You can send it back to us if you would like a profit analysis based on what type of equipment you are interested in.

[optical24/7]

Edging only makes sense financially if you are doing 12-15 or more non-vsp jobs per day.

Actually, those numbers are very accurate.

Totally agreed.

All answers I expect from wholesalers. ( I worked wholesale for years too.) But 12-15 a day is way more than you need to get edging to pay for itself. Unless you're going to play the game of ordering stock and send it to a wholesaler to cut for you, you can profit handsomely from just 5 Rx's a day. As example, out of those 5 Rx's; 2 were stock SV, one was a drill mount and one was a rimless groove you could save up to 24k a year easily.

[Judy Canty]

Does that include edger payments, consumables, breakage, wages?

[mattc-ait]

All answers I expect from wholesalers. ( I worked wholesale for years too.) But 12-15 a day is way more than you need to get edging to pay for itself. Unless you're going to play the game of ordering stock and send it to a wholesaler to cut for you, you can profit handsomely from just 5 Rx's a day. As example, out of those 5 Rx's; 2 were stock SV, one was a drill mount and one was a rimless groove you could save up to 24k a year easily.

I agree with this as well, at 5-10 jobs per day you don't need to spend $40,000+ on an edging system. You can get something new that will handle that work load with tons of room to grow for under 18k. Even less if we are talking used. There are always drawbacks though like breakage and ultimately being responsible for the quality of your work, but with a little motivation the profit is there, otherwise you wouldn't see so many ECP's with in-office labs.

Another point to think about is your increase in jobs from same day service. We live in a culture of instant gratification and there is definitely and advantage to being able to turn around a pair of glasses on the same day.

[sharpstick777]

Here is the disaster I see when I consult to small practices. The edger comes in, but with only 5 jobs day its not enough to hire a new person to run. So the someone is pulled off the sales floor to run jobs, and its usually the most knowlegable and and often the best sales person in the practice. 2nd pair and premium sales drop substantially. As well, because of todays flat metal, grooved metal, drilled rimless and wrap frames, breakages go through the roof. As a result, they switch from Premium ARs to standard AR's as they are less likely to twist under the block.. and as CuriousCat says...

Does that include edger payments, consumables, breakage, wages?

The end result is that gross revenue goes down, and the expenses of redoing premium products goes up. Or you start sending work out the door that doesn't pass inspection because you don't want to eat the cost.

An edger will simply cost you a lot more than the edger companies tell you in lost sales, higher remakes, and labor. If you can afford a dedicated edger person go for it, if you can't, you can't really afford an edger all things considered. My number is accurate for what it really costs your practice in revenue, remakes and labor to have an edger.

All answers I expect from wholesalers. ( I worked wholesale for years too.) But 12-15 a day is way more than you need to get edging to pay for itself. Unless you're going to play the game of ordering stock and send it to a wholesaler to cut for you, you can profit handsomely from just 5 Rx's a day. As example, out of those 5 Rx's; 2 were stock SV, one was a drill mount and one was a rimless groove you could save up to 24k a year easily.

[mattc-ait]

Here is the disaster I see when I consult to small practices. The edger comes in, but with only 5 jobs day its not enough to hire a new person to run. So the someone is pulled off the sales floor to run jobs, and its usually the most knowlegable and and often the best sales person in the practice. 2nd pair and premium sales drop substantially. As well, because of todays flat metal, grooved metal, drilled rimless and wrap frames, breakages go through the roof. As a result, they switch from Premium ARs to standard AR's as they are less likely to twist under the block.. and as CuriousCat says...



The end result is that gross revenue goes down, and the expenses of redoing premium products goes up. Or you start sending work out the door that doesn't pass inspection because you don't want to eat the cost.

An edger will simply cost you a lot more than the edger companies tell you in lost sales, higher remakes, and labor. If you can afford a dedicated edger person go for it, if you can't, you can't really afford an edger all things considered. My number is accurate for what it really costs your practice in revenue, remakes and labor to have an edger.

Someone doing 5 jobs per day is not really in a position to tackle rimless work and make it cost effective, those jobs will usually be sent out. An in-house lab generally is not a 100% solution for all of your jobs unless you are spending considerable money on all the bells and whistles. At the volume this person is talking about it sounds like they can handle the bulk of their jobs and still turn a profit. Those high end rimless jobs will still need to be sent out. Most breakage is entirely preventable, AR coated lenses can be handled easily via proper training and a lens tape / blocking pad designed for Super Hydro coatings. Also, pertaining to rimless, keep in mind drill jobs at a lab are not cheap. There comes a certain point where it becomes cost effective to do it yourself, even factoring in breakage. You have to treat an in-office lab as you would purchasing a new car, like a car this is an expensive piece of equipment that requires maintenance and someone who can drive it. The difference being that this car makes you money, but you have to put something into it to get anything out of it. They don't just print money.

We have customers who are both Wholesale Labs and ECP's, both make money and neither solution is the best in every given circumstance.

[sharpstick777]

...Most breakage is entirely preventable...

Yes it is. But it requires someone with experience, skill, a mechanical mind, and optical knowledge. All in very short supply in many dispensaries.

[mattc-ait]

Yes it is. But it requires someone with experience, skill, a mechanical mind, and optical knowledge. All in very short supply in many dispensaries.

You are generalizing there, I wouldnt recommend a lab to anyone who hires from the bottom of the barrel. Just like I wouldn't want someone fitting my glasses who was inexperienced or lacking skill.

[kcount]

Or the Orig poster could just call me and we'll be their edging room! It's a simple concept, we use Laramy-K for the surfacing (one of the best labs out there) and charge invoice plus an edging charge. ($xxxx for metal, zyl, grooved rimless and $xxxx for drill mounts. High base work is a $xxxx edging charge) If your with in 10 miles of the lab we even deliver them to your office in the mornings! otherwise we ship Fedex ground.

[Whole prices removed.]

[optical24/7]

Or the Orig poster could just call me and we'll be their edging room! It's a simple concept, we use Laramy-K for the surfacing (one of the best labs out there) and charge invoice plus an edging charge. ($xxxx for metal, zyl, grooved rimless and $xxxx for drill mounts. High base work is a $xxxx edging charge) If your with in 10 miles of the lab we even deliver them to your office in the mornings! otherwise we ship Fedex ground.

[Whole prices removed.]

Shameless plug Kevin..Shameless!!!.....................I like it.

[Johns]

Shameless plug Kevin..Shameless!!!.....................I like it.

I thought he slipped it in there rather gracefully!

[Jacqui]

I thought we weren't supposed to publish wholesale prices here.

[GokhanSF]

All answers I expect from wholesalers. ( I worked wholesale for years too.) But 12-15 a day is way more than you need to get edging to pay for itself. Unless you're going to play the game of ordering stock and send it to a wholesaler to cut for you, you can profit handsomely from just 5 Rx's a day. As example, out of those 5 Rx's; 2 were stock SV, one was a drill mount and one was a rimless groove you could save up to 24k a year easily.

Optical24/7 my answer was regarding surfacing lab. I will put an edger in my office no matter what my daily volume is, as I haven't seen a wholesale lab capable of doing what I ask for.

[kcount]

I thought we weren't supposed to publish wholesale prices here.

No wholesale prices were mentioned. If John Q. Public walked in with an uncut and a frame I'd charge hime the same rate. :)

[optical24/7]

Optical24/7 my answer was regarding surfacing lab. I will put an edger in my office no matter what my daily volume is, as I haven't seen a wholesale lab capable of doing what I ask for.

Surfacing lab? Then I say no way for the same reasons sited previously ( lack of diversity of products you can offer the number one reason I wouldn't) Plus there are plenty of 24 hour service labs out there. The savings of in-house labs are on the finishing end, not the surfacing. (very little margin of savings in surfacing yourself.)

[Ocular Dexter]

If you are doing only 5 jobs a day it still makes sense to edge in house, but I wouldn't go out an spend $20k or more on a new edger. You can get a decent edger for around $5k and if your only doing 5 jobs a day you certainly have time to do the edging yourself and you will be more productive at work. Plus, if you're only doing 5 jobs a day you need to be extremely efficient and maximize profits any way you can.

[PhillyEyes]

Being that we are on the subject... Just recently my boss asked me to get some info on Coburn's "Premier Lab" and also there "Free Form Mini Lab"

Before I call them up and get the whole sales pitch and that rep that wants to come in to "introduce themselves." (which i'm not looking forward to)

I wanted to ask if any one of my fellow optiboarders had any info on the price of these small, virtually all-in-one labs? Believe it or not I can't find it anywhere on google. Anyone have a rough estimate of what these go for?

(In this case 3 retail stores, each processing 40+ jobs a day will be, let's say "partnering up" if you may, to purchase this equipment.)

[Jacqui]

You probably won't find it anywhere. I was always told to plan on about $220K when DAC was making the Mini Lab that Chemat is now. This does not include software for progressives, but does include all necessary equipment and some starter supplies. I would imagine that Coburn is about the same price.

[Jacqui]

Phillyeyes: Sent you a PM about this.

[GokhanSF]

Surfacing lab? Then I say no way for the same reasons sited previously ( lack of diversity of products you can offer the number one reason I wouldn't) Plus there are plenty of 24 hour service labs out there. The savings of in-house labs are on the finishing end, not the surfacing. (very little margin of savings in surfacing yourself.)

That's why I said if you are doing less than 50 jobs a day it is not worth it to invest in surfacing lab. On the other hand, I will definetly get an edger.

[Johns]

We do hundreds of jobs a day, but putting a surfacing lab in is the furthest thing from my mind. I would have to hire 2 more people, and stock a ton of blanks to try to get my work back as fast as my uncuts come in...and that's from 5 states away!

[sharpstick777]

I learned a long time ago there are good problems to have. Johns, you have a great problem on your hands. Great job.

We do hundreds of jobs a day, but putting a surfacing lab in is the furthest thing from my mind. I would have to hire 2 more people, and stock a ton of blanks to try to get my work back as fast as my uncuts come in...and that's from 5 states away!

[Johns]

I learned a long time ago there are good problems to have. Johns, you have a great problem on your hands. Great job.

Thanks, but I wasn't saying that to brag. My point is that I can't imagine how many jobs it would take before I would feel compelled to jump into that arena. As fast as the industry changes, the cost of labor, the unsure economic climate, and the ease with which I can get uncuts, I can't imagine ever surfacing.

Of course, I have friends (Braheem is one) that have no problem surfacing, and they profit from it...I just don't think I'd want to go down that road.

[sharpstick777]

No, your decision makes sense. Focus on what you do best... Don't dilute your efforts. its an option that will always be there when or if its ever time. And I know you were not bragging, still, you have done a great job! I am proud of you.

Thanks, but I wasn't saying that to brag. My point is that I can't imagine how many jobs it would take before I would feel compelled to jump into that arena. As fast as the industry changes, the cost of labor, the unsure economic climate, and the ease with which I can get uncuts, I can't imagine ever surfacing.

Of course, I have friends (Braheem is one) that have no problem surfacing, and they profit from it...I just don't think I'd want to go down that road.

[Pogu]

We have several opticals in my town that provide in house surfacing. People in my area kinda expect from the style of shop I work at. It allows a lot of freedom I'm just now learning to exploit.