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Thread: Varilux S Series

  1. #176
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    Good observation Mahmoud, I think the S is using asymetrical asphericicty on dual inverted axis, personally, but I have had time to test that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by mahmoud.hamza View Post
    The only way to reduce the swim effect is by reducing the prism thinning value and with a double aspheric lens design.
    Sure E is using a lot of marketing Pressure, and this pressure will make the Professionnal with no many choices.

    on the other hand, i think that progressive wearer feeling depends at 20% on his psychological situation, if he is well prepared (by marketing aproche) he will accept easier the lens, what ever it is very good lens or just normal lens, but he will reconnise the real defference between one lens and another only by testing OBJECTIVELY lenses, then he will be able to juge well if the lens is Ok or not.

    I tryed one time to fit a bad quality lens to a wearer, an say that the lens is XYZ Brand.... I was really surprised, because the man told me that the lens is good and that he feels conftible with it, but it was a bad lens quality if you compare its Cylinder Map to another one........

    Sorry for my english I tried my best :)

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyehunt2 View Post
    I am wearing the S series fit, and dislike the reading area, much smaller than my superceeds.
    My 2 cents.
    Same here. Its even smaller than my GT2-3D s.

  3. #178
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    What i recognized is, that the add power is lower (0.25-0.50) as we ordered. Essilor says, thats ok. No redos so far, but some customers complain about the reading area.

  4. #179
    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    Just for fun, I have redo numbers on the all the lenses we sell (everything but Hoya) and the Seiko Surmount has the lowest non-adapt rate, at 1%. Succeed, Shamir Spectrum and InTouch are less than 2%. Interestingly, the Auto II has the second highest. The Comfort is the 3rd worse. The "S" series is the only Free-form that beats all the grinders for non-adapts, its the worst lens (in terms of redos) we have ever sold.
    The Auto 2 and the Varilux 4S (see below), have narrow intermedate and near zones, with an aggressive rate of add power change in their corridors (I discovered after I wrote this that the 4S that I sampled was the short corridor version- saying that the power rate of change is aggressive in the 4S applies only to the short) that requires the upmost in precision when fitting these lenses, a level of precision that I don't see very often in my neck of the woods. I suspect that the Surmount might be more tolerant of less than optimal positioning, resulting in less remakes from amateurish fittings.

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    Good observation Mahmoud, I think the S is using asymetrical asphericicty on dual inverted axis, personally, but I have had time to test that out.
    I finally have a pair of Poly 4S'- I've been too busy to do a complete evaluation, but a quick review shows similar performance to my Autograph fixed 18mm (1.60), especially at near (roughly -5.00 +2.00 x 180 add +2.25 in both). I'll post an in depth review, probably in the eyecare professionals forum, when I have a few more PALs updated to my latest Rx.

    WRT the asphericity, I measured a base curve of +4.25 at the distance reference point, which flattened to +3.00 off-axis, measured horizontally. The back curve had a 1.5 D drop. Something is going on here for my lens clock to show any drop at all!
    Last edited by Robert Martellaro; 01-24-2013 at 02:29 PM.
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  5. #180
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Robert, if you don't mind, could you PM me your review, I'm currently not on the Pro forum.

  6. #181
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    Will do!

    Robert

  7. #182
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    Robert I would be interested in hearing your review, please PM me it as well
    Thanks

  8. #183
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    burke110,

    I'll try to post a mini review here, and a more critical review in the professionals forum.

    I've discovered that the lenses I received are the S Design Short. This might explain the better than expected near performance that I mentioned above. I'm in the process of having that error corrected as I write this. I also need to acquire at least two or three more designs, one of those being a control, or baseline design, probably a standard Physio. This may take 2 to 3 months or longer, depending on how long it stays crazy busy.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  9. #184
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    I just got my pair of Varilux S Fit lenses in trivex. Previously I wore a 2.5 year old pair of Varilux Physio Enhanced in poly. I liked my frames and they held up well so I had new lenses put in my old frames. I was happy with my old lenses except now I need a little more add to read fine print. The first thing I noticed was everything looked very crisp. Since I changed 2 variables, model and material, I don't know if I should attribute the added crispness to the new model or upgrading from poly to trivex. Going through my day I found them very different from my previous lenses. In the past staying in the Physio family I was immediately comfortable with my new lenses but with the Fit S lenses I found myself moving my head around a lot at first trying to find the best area of the lens. The distance area of my new lenses seem larger and the intermediate area smaller and lower on the lens but the close focus area still seems good. When asking about my use I explained that I sit in front of a computer monitor 8+ hours/day so if the lenses were customized I'd expect them to increase the intermediate area rather than shrink it. I sat about 18" away from my 24" monitor with my old lenses but with my new lenses I find I have to sit at least 24" away to have big enough area in focus. I'm not sure what to think of my new lenses. I see fine and like the way the world looks through them. Now that I'm used to them I no longer have to hunt for the right area of the lens but the smaller intermediate focus area seems like a step backward.

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucejackson View Post
    I just got my pair of Varilux S Fit lenses in trivex. Previously I wore a 2.5 year old pair of Varilux Physio Enhanced in poly. I liked my frames and they held up well so I had new lenses put in my old frames. I was happy with my old lenses except now I need a little more add to read fine print. The first thing I noticed was everything looked very crisp. Since I changed 2 variables, model and material, I don't know if I should attribute the added crispness to the new model or upgrading from poly to trivex. Going through my day I found them very different from my previous lenses. In the past staying in the Physio family I was immediately comfortable with my new lenses but with the Fit S lenses I found myself moving my head around a lot at first trying to find the best area of the lens. The distance area of my new lenses seem larger and the intermediate area smaller and lower on the lens but the close focus area still seems good. When asking about my use I explained that I sit in front of a computer monitor 8+ hours/day so if the lenses were customized I'd expect them to increase the intermediate area rather than shrink it. I sat about 18" away from my 24" monitor with my old lenses but with my new lenses I find I have to sit at least 24" away to have big enough area in focus. I'm not sure what to think of my new lenses. I see fine and like the way the world looks through them. Now that I'm used to them I no longer have to hunt for the right area of the lens but the smaller intermediate focus area seems like a step backward.
    So would you say to someone not in the business that they are worth a $150+ upcharge?

  11. #186
    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucejackson View Post
    I just got my pair of Varilux S Fit lenses in trivex. Previously I wore a 2.5 year old pair of Varilux Physio Enhanced in poly. I liked my frames and they held up well so I had new lenses put in my old frames. I was happy with my old lenses except now I need a little more add to read fine print. The first thing I noticed was everything looked very crisp. Since I changed 2 variables, model and material, I don't know if I should attribute the added crispness to the new model or upgrading from poly to trivex. Going through my day I found them very different from my previous lenses. In the past staying in the Physio family I was immediately comfortable with my new lenses but with the Fit S lenses I found myself moving my head around a lot at first trying to find the best area of the lens. The distance area of my new lenses seem larger and the intermediate area smaller and lower on the lens but the close focus area still seems good. When asking about my use I explained that I sit in front of a computer monitor 8+ hours/day so if the lenses were customized I'd expect them to increase the intermediate area rather than shrink it. I sat about 18" away from my 24" monitor with my old lenses but with my new lenses I find I have to sit at least 24" away to have big enough area in focus. I'm not sure what to think of my new lenses. I see fine and like the way the world looks through them. Now that I'm used to them I no longer have to hunt for the right area of the lens but the smaller intermediate focus area seems like a step backward.
    Thanks for contributing to Optiboard's knowledge base.

    The next step is to make an identical pair using a different, but similar PAL design, and then make short and long term comparisons. Posting your Rx helps also.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    So would you say to someone not in the business that they are worth a $150+ upcharge?
    I haven't been "in the business" for 20 years so I pay full price. For me they weren't worth a $150 premium mainly because I feel like I lost too much intermediate area real estate. Someone who doesn't rely on the intermediate area as much as I do might like them more.

  13. #188
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    I'm curious why they're so much more for some of you? Our office currently offers the S fit for a $25 premium over the Enhanced fit. While I think that's a bit low myself, I can't see where you would need more than a Benjamin and a half additional between the two. Even against the regular Enhanced, the difference is only $50 to the patient. Maybe we're just really backwards here...

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I'm curious why they're so much more for some of you? Our office currently offers the S fit for a $25 premium over the Enhanced fit. While I think that's a bit low myself, I can't see where you would need more than a Benjamin and a half additional between the two. Even against the regular Enhanced, the difference is only $50 to the patient. Maybe we're just really backwards here...
    On a cost basis, the S lenses are running almost double the DRx series.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucejackson View Post
    For me they weren't worth a $150 premium mainly because I feel like I lost too much intermediate area real estate. Someone who doesn't rely on the intermediate area as much as I do might like them more.
    I was happy with my old lenses except now I need a little more add to read fine print.
    But the increase in add power will reduce the real and/or perceived zone widths, making the comparison invalid!

    Valid comparisons require the same Rx, fitting parameters, especially the vertex distance, and identically fitted frames. Try to get a comp or discount from your primary lab on another design. In return, share the results with them- they'll appreciate the feedback from a reasonably well controlled test.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    On a cost basis, the S lenses are running almost double the DRx series.
    Wow, not from our labs...I guess we're either really lucky, or really smart in our pricing negotiations. While anything in the Variluz portfolio isn't the cheapest prog. style out there, we're not seeing that much of a markup at the lab level that would justify such a big jump to our patients. Still, I thought we were comparing the Physio Enhanced fit vs the S fit. The DRx would of course be a little less...but even then, we're not that far apart in our practice.

  17. #192
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    I got my S series 4D lenses yesterday and I have been comparing them to the Physio Advance, Physio Short, and the Image. My correction is OD -1.00 -1.00. OS -1.50 -.75 with a 2.25 or 2.50 add.

    First, these are very nice lenses, comfortable to wear, no swim. The distance area compared to the other lenses is slightly wider. But to notice it I have to look out of the upper corner of the lenses, it's almost as clear as straight ahead. The other 3 lenses are not quite as clear. This has not been an issue, though.

    Intermediate area- I'm not seeing a difference. All are fine when I look at my desktop computer. I do have the screen set properly so I look down at it.

    Reading seems the same as the other Varilux lenses and slightly wider then the Image.

    All in all, nice lenses but no wow. I wouldn't want to pay an extra $200 over what we charge for the regular Physio.

  18. #193
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    OK, just bringing back this thread with the hope that I could canvas a few expert opinions now that this lens is a little further down the track. I recently switched a lot of our work from Hoya to Essilor, not really from dissatisfaction with Hoya lenses. The specifics of that decision are irrelevant. My concern is that my remake rate on progs is now much higher, and I wondered how others were going with it? My former go-to lens of choice was the original iD Lifestyle, we're now using mainly S Fit.

    I do most of my own dispensing, and I've been in the game over 20 years. Other than taking the extra POW measurements required to order the Fit, my routine is pretty much the same. I don't think I'm really fouling anything up in particular, but my results with the S Series have been variable. Plenty have been happy enough, but a surprising number are having problems, probably particularly at near but also some who just didn't like the "feel" of it. I had one guy today with a 1.6 Trans S Fit that refused to leave the practice with them. He is a bit of a mental, to be fair, but it was that final straw that led me to post this cry for help.

    Other than giving me a slap for switching to Essilor, are there any suggestions? Tips and tricks that people have found to make this lens work, or conversely things that make it more likely to fail? Am I in a minority getting mediocre results with this design? Advice and experiences appreciated, thanks.

  19. #194
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    We use a lot of Essilor lenses and I'm not finding people any happier with the S lenses then with the Physio ones. Just dispensed a redo a couple of days ago from the S back to the Physio Enhanced. He didn't like the intermediate area on the S lenses.

    I have a pair of the S 4D and I like them, but not more then many other lenses.
    Last edited by Happylady; 08-29-2014 at 11:16 AM.

  20. #195
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    My dispensing experience is that the S series is designed primarily for less-compromised distance and reduced swim, which to be fair is only what Essilor claims of the design. I use it primarily on new wearers with trepidation of the whole progressive experience, and existing wearers that have never become really comfortable with their existing progressives (which for us is Varilux as well). Satisfied Physio/DRx/Enhanced/Fit wearers I keep in the Physios. Essilor of course would love us to replace all our Physios with S, but the lens is different enough the Physio still plays a huge role. Never thought I would think of a Physio as a "harder" design in relation to anything, lol!

  21. #196
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    thing to remember about the pricing conversation above. I have found all of my labs have the s series at net pricing which is something to remember when pricing.

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    I know this is a fairly old thread. I know they scrapped the S design because it ended up being garbage, then brought it back recently. I have been selling it to people and everyone seems to like it. I have been noticing hyperops not really liking them too much. I'm thinking about adding some free-form lenses and try that out instead. Has anyone else tried this newly relaunched S Series lens? Have you been having any problems with hyperops...(of course new presbyopic hyperops usually have a little more trouble getting use to a progressive design than myops).

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolpuppy View Post
    I know they scrapped the S design because it ended up being garbage, then brought it back recently.
    The S was never scrapped or brought back... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolpuppy View Post
    I have been selling it to people and everyone seems to like it.
    You and 3 others...


    Quote Originally Posted by Nolpuppy View Post
    I have been noticing hyperops not really liking them too much. I'm thinking about adding some free-form lenses and try that out instead. Have you been having any problems with hyperops...(of course new presbyopic hyperops usually have a little more trouble getting use to a progressive design than myops).
    That is a very common refrain. I suggest the Seiko Surmount and Superior for Hyperopes (order with NEAR and distance mono-pds, must fit ON CENTER) that will give you only every possible shape and a corridor aligned for every RX whether myope or hyperope. Those are the best lenses for Hyperopes by far right now.

    The S wasn't really relaunched, Essilor is remarketing the same lens... same 'ol same 'ol.

  24. #199
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    I got ya! I've never sold Varilux lenses in the past, but that's what I was told by one of the opticians here. Sounds like Essilor tries its best to manipulate people to buy their lenses. All of that aside, I have had a really nice response from most of my patients about it.

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolpuppy View Post
    . All of that aside, I have had a really nice response from most of my patients about it.
    That is going to depend on 2 things, both outside your control. The amount of RX change they have, and their previous Progressive... The larger of the first, and the older the second, the better any new lens will appear.

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