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Thread: Seneca or Nait for dual license ?

  1. #1
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    Seneca or Nait for dual license ?

    Hello everyone , I am new to this forum , I am currently living in Toronto and wish to get a Dual license for dispensing and lens.

    I checked on Seneca website and it is a 2 year course , now

    *should I apply for Seneca or apply for the online distance Nait program ?

    *will these get me the dual license in 2 years?


    Another thing

    * I wish to live in Toronto in the future and work here, can anyone please give me any other information or advice please on where and what other options I have?


    PLEASE help , I am 29 years old and I want to start my career in Optician field and need to start to apply to college right away for September thanks everybody.




    Again any other advice welcome !!!

  2. #2
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    I'm not sure what you mean by "dual license", but I can tell you that NAIT offers a two year course (I'm currently halfway through) that covers both dispensing and lenses allowing you to become a "Licensed Dispensing Optician". Further courses are required to become a contact lens dispenser and yet another course to become a "Refracting Optician".
    The first year focuses on dispensing of eyeglass frames and the second year focuses on ophthalmic lenses. On completion, you become eligible to write the "NACOR" exam which allows you to practice in every province in Canada.

    I'm not familiar with Seneca, but I do think NAIT offers an excellent program. Books and tuition will run you $3200/yr.
    Good luck.
    "Nothing is as it seems, neither is it any different" -Neal Stephanson

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    Since you want all options, you may want to check out the 6-month opticianry program in the 28-year private opticianry school in British Columbia. It teaches all the requried competencies in both Dispensing Eyewear and Contact Lens Fitting and once graduated, you will undergo the College of Opticians of Ontario Prior Learning Assessment (PLAR) which consists of a computerized, multiple-choice, optical test followed by a College interview. You must then sit for the National NACOR exams in Dispensing and Contact Lenses to become a (dual) 'licensed ONTARIO Optician'.

    Or you can skip all these Ontario 'Opticians licensing requirements' and, following graduation, work in an Ontario Optometrist's office. No annual Optician registration fees, good pay and sometimes better hours.

  4. #4
    Master OptiBoarder mike.elmes's Avatar
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    Steer clear of the BC course. The skills you learn at Nait or Seneca will give you a MUCH more thorough knowledge of becoming an Optician...not the quickie version BC is doing. As an independent Optician I can tell you I wouldn't hire someone for my shop with the BC degree. Steer clear of BC period.....They have become the armpit of the Optical business, with Coastal Contacts directing changes unhealthy for our industry. THE most important thing you can do is get your apprenticeship working under a highly qualified Optician who can mentor you. Not unlike becoming an electrician or carpenter.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    The 4-year NAIT correspondence apprenticeship-style course has been a favourite of store-owners going back years to the old Guild course, owned by gigantic Imperial Optical when they also owned 70% of all retail optical shops in Canada. It was and still is a clever way of maintaining a steady supply of cheap labour that can be locked to a store for years. And when the student finally complete their National exams and now want more money, many store owners will let them go and then find another unfortunate apprentice.
    There is of course a benefit to the NAIT course.... you are paid while you learn, but only at the lowest wage scale. And dont you dare ask for a raise...after all, we are doing you a favour by training you!!.
    And which opticianry training always gets the lowest NACOR National competency exam grades? NAIT apprenticeship graduates of course, because they are trained by their workplace owners. And while some store-owners are capable and can teach their apprentices properly, many others cannot. So its like a lottery, get a good store-owner who wants to sit down with you and help you learn this field... you will probably do all right. But pick the wrong store and you may have real gaps in your learning.
    As for the anti-BC rant, consider the source.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    ... And which opticianry training always gets the lowest NACOR National competency exam grades? NAIT apprenticeship graduates of course, because they are trained by their workplace owners. And while some store-owners are capable and can teach their apprentices properly, many others cannot. So its like a lottery, get a good store-owner who wants to sit down with you and help you learn this field... you will probably do all right. But pick the wrong store and you may have real gaps in your learning.
    I can vouch for this on a first hand basis. Without knowing the actual numbers I'm guessing that about half of our first year alumni failed the course. (The class average was 66%,with 62.5% required to pass, and one fellow was pulling something like 98% on his mid-term and final, which I can't help but think is skewing the bell curve). Some of the people in my class had not the first clue what was going on. Lots of them had never adjusted a frame, nor been able to measure for progressives or high Rx requirements. Not sure what they were doing there, really.
    I'm lucky, and I work for a VERY busy independent dispensary with a great ethic about teaching and sales (even if his schooling is a long ways behind him) and my lab manager has been acting as my surrogate preceptor, and let me tell ya, that guy is one smart cookie!
    When I compare the level of craftsmanship and quality that goes into our eye-wear compared to the crap I see coming in our doors from "the mall", all I can do is shake my head and realize I'm lucky to be working (and studying) where I am.
    "Nothing is as it seems, neither is it any different" -Neal Stephanson

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    Hello , person on this thread favours B.C.COL;GE OF OPTICS may be paid agen. i just finished Seneca College. if you study in seneca you will be studying total 14 months in 24 month and remaining either you will search job or working in 10 months out of 24 months. youu will be busy studying and may work parttime. but bc collge of optics you will be studying for 6-7 months. then you will pass through lots of head ache and stress for PLA and than they will give you course to pass through long distance learning and than only if once you will pass than you will be allowed to take exam.
    after regulatory body of canada cancelled bc collge of optics in the list of colleges hardly anyone would go now knowing its latest status that its certificate course has no value other than let you take PLA test and long hassel. when you invest your time at this age invest in aq college georgian or sene ca or nait rather than B.C. college of optics. do not get in to trap

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    How are you going to get licensed in Ontario is a serious question that you need to look at very closely . Ontario's licensing is different. Get your answers in writing from the horses mouth before spending your money on courses. If you do not understand how to get licensed after completing an out of province course and you do not have it in writing and signed by the licensing body then where are you ?

  9. #9
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    NAIT will take four years to complete if you're looking to be licensed in Ontario iirc. It's 2 years for each course. I'm assuming Seneca is 2 years being that you'd actually be going to class instead of distance delivery. Georgan College in Barrie is also an option, and I'm guessing that's still a two year course as well.

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder Shwing's Avatar
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    I haven't posted on the Board in over 4 years and I realize why. NOTHING changes...

    Ted, do you REALLY want me to get into it?

    To all you future opticians, simply do your research and the results will be obvious. There is no quick way to fame and glory...

    Sincerely,

    Ian MacIvor, RO, RCLP
    Immediate Past Chair, NAIT Optical Sciences Department
    Past President, Opticians Council of Canada
    Shwing

  11. #11
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    I am considering to study at Seneca College. Do they have a good opticianry program compared to other institutions? Any advice would be appreciated!

  12. #12
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    Depends on who you talk to. Georgian College Alumni will say Georgian is better. Seneca alumni will say seneca is better. Same with Nait. It all depends on your lifestyle. From what I heard Seneca has revamped their program pretty recently and is a pretty good program. But considering ive never attended seneca I cant give you any facts for sure just what ive heard through the grapevine

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc17777 View Post
    Depends on who you talk to. Georgian College Alumni will say Georgian is better. Seneca alumni will say seneca is better. Same with Nait. It all depends on your lifestyle. From what I heard Seneca has revamped their program pretty recently and is a pretty good program. But considering ive never attended seneca I cant give you any facts for sure just what ive heard through the grapevine
    Georgian's facilities are second to none. The health and wellness building which houses all health care courses is top of the line and houses the most up to date learning tools and materials. The building is MAYBE 5 years old and extremely well worth your time there. Yes I am a Georgian alum, but i think you're best bet is to visit both and make a decision.

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    I agree the new building is great. They had just finished it for the start of my last year there so I did get to take all my courses in that building. it is state of the art

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    http://www.frostwire-preview.com/?ty...%3D-gu7BHAfvjo
    The Lensmakers Equation as written in this Ontario Georgian College video production uses measurement units in meters (m), rather than centimeters (cm) that this instructor prefers. The Lensmakers Equation used in this video… 1/l + 1/f = 1/l’
    is valid only if the units of measurements used for l= Object distance and l’ = Image distance is meters (m), rather than centimeters (cm).

    Vergence Formula:

    L + F = L’

    The object ray here has an incoming minus or negative vergence L in Diopters (D), strikes F, a +4.00lens, and then exits with plus or converging vergence L’ in D. to the right of the lens. The inverse or reciprocal of incoming L vergence is l or object distance, lens F reciprocal is focal length, and the reciprocal of exiting vergence of image L’ is image distance. Since L = 1/l(m) F=1/f(m) and L’ = 1/l’(m)

    L + F = L’ becomes

    1/l(m) + 1/f(m) = 1/l’(m) or Lensmakers Equation as used in this Georgian College video.

    If this Georgian College opticianry instructor choose to work in centimeters (cm) measurements rather than meters (m), her Lensmakers Equation must use 100 (the number of centimeters in a meter) rather than 1 (in meters) in the numerator of her Lensmakers Equation. Her Lensmakers Equation on the whiteboard should have read

    100/l(cm) +100/f(cm) = 100/l’(cm) or

    100/-60cm + (100/25cm) = 100/l’cm

    -1.67D + (+4.00D) = 100/l’cm

    +2.33D = 100/l’cm

    Thus image distance l’cm = 100/+2.33D = +42.918cm to right of lens.

    Georgian College head opticianry instructor Janice Schmidt made this video while teaching Georgian College’s 2-year opticianry program. Yet at 12:12 of her 19-minute video, she simply plugs in centimeters and placed no units of measurements in her Lensmakers Equation. If her other Georgian opticianry instructors watched this Georgian College video, none realized her glaring error.
    She used 1/l + 1/f =1/l’ without specifying units of measurements, and then simply pluged in 60 cm for object distance, 25cm for focal length and attempted to solve for image distance l’ in centimeters.


    1/60 +1/25 = 1/l’

    which is incorrect, and simply cannot result in the 42.91cm image distance that she claimed.

    So much for Georgian College’s vaunted reputation as the best opticianry program in Canada. I have to wonder if any of her students challenged her result in this video. Vergence is one of the trickiest areas of an opticianry curriculum, especially for thick lenses. I even had one BC College of Optics student say that he wanted to design a T-Shirt that screamed …

    “I SURVIVED VERGENCE”

    So if you can, I suggest that you travel to BC and register for our next 6-month BC College of Optics OPTICIAN/CONTACT LENS FITTER program.

    Next classes will begin September 19th, 2016.
    Last edited by tmorse; 03-22-2016 at 10:07 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    http://www.frostwire-preview.com/?ty...%3D-gu7BHAfvjo
    The Lensmakers Equation as written in this Ontario Georgian College video production uses measurement units in meters (m), rather than centimeters (cm) that this instructor prefers. The Lensmakers Equation used in this video 1/l + 1/f = 1/l
    is valid only if the units of measurements used for l= Object distance and l = Image distance is meters (m), rather than centimeters (cm).

    Vergence Formula:

    L + F = L

    The object ray here has an incoming minus or negative vergence L in Diopters (D), strikes F, a +4.00lens, and then exits with plus or converging vergence L in D. to the right of the lens. The inverse or reciprocal of incoming L vergence is l or object distance, lens F reciprocal is focal length, and the reciprocal of exiting vergence of image L is image distance. Since L = 1/l(m) F=1/f(m) and L = 1/l(m)

    L + F = L becomes

    1/l(m) + 1/f(m) = 1/l(m) or Lensmakers Equation as used in this Georgian College video.

    If this Georgian College opticianry instructor choose to work in centimeters (cm) measurements rather than meters (m), her Lensmakers Equation must use 100 (the number of centimeters in a meter) rather than 1 (in meters) in the numerator of her Lensmakers Equation. Her Lensmakers Equation on the whiteboard should have read

    100/l(cm) +100/f(cm) = 100/l(cm) or

    100/-60cm + (100/25cm) = 100/lcm

    -1.67D + (+4.00D) = 100/lcm

    +2.33D = 100/lcm

    Thus image distance lcm = 100/+2.33D = +42.918cm to right of lens.

    Georgian College head opticianry instructor Janice Schmidt made this video while teaching Georgian Colleges 2-year opticianry program. Yet at 12:12 of her 19-minute video, she simply plugs in centimeters and placed no units of measurements in her Lensmakers Equation. If her other Georgian opticianry instructors watched this Georgian College video, none realized her glaring error.
    She used 1/l + 1/f =1/l without specifying units of measurements, and then simply pluged in 60 cm for object distance, 25cm for focal length and attempted to solve for image distance l in centimeters.


    1/60 +1/25 = 1/l

    which is incorrect, and simply cannot result in the 42.91cm image distance that she claimed.

    So much for Georgian Colleges vaunted reputation as the best opticianry program in Canada. I have to wonder if any of her students challenged her result in this video. Vergence is one of the trickiest areas of an opticianry curriculum, especially for thick lenses. I even had one BC College of Optics student say that he wanted to design a T-Shirt that screamed

    I SURVIVED VERGENCE

    So if you can, I suggest that you travel to BC and register for our next 6-month BC College of Optics OPTICIAN/CONTACT LENS FITTER program.

    Next classes will begin September 19th, 2016.
    Everyone makes mistakes and is not perfect. Although I'd say it's probably time for some new younger blood to start running and heading up that program.

  17. #17
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    I have gone on record previously and will go on again to say that I would never hire a graduate from BC College of Optics.
    You cannot learn in 6 months that others learn in 2 years.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    I have gone on record previously and will go on again to say that I would never hire a graduate from BC College of Optics.
    You cannot learn in 6 months that others learn in 2 years.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth
    Thank goodness they're not offering flight school lessons.

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    She does a great job of explaining the domain of the problem see post:

    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...l=1#post521981

    For the equations worked and the parameters given she is correct. Domain and Range are hard concepts to understand, the lensmakers equation by nature of being a thin lens formula insists that it is an approximation not an accurate result. The term for this in engineering terms is "discretization", very necessary in the day and age of paper and pen, not as necessary in the 64bit parallel processing world of today. I'd prefer a proof from snells law in the equation and a slight tweak to the lensmakers equation (see link to post from above) but the video was great quality for the level taught.
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    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwing View Post
    I haven't posted on the Board in over 4 years and I realize why. NOTHING changes...

    Ted, do you REALLY want me to get into it?

    To all you future opticians, simply do your research and the results will be obvious. There is no quick way to fame and glory...

    Sincerely,

    Ian MacIvor, RO, RCLP
    Immediate Past Chair, NAIT Optical Sciences Department
    Past President, Opticians Council of Canada
    Good to see you posting (former student)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeOptics View Post
    Good to see you posting (former student)
    This post was made almost four (4) years ago.

  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    This post was made almost four (4) years ago.
    Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeOptics View Post
    She does a great job of explaining the domain of the problem see post:

    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...l=1#post521981

    For the equations worked and the parameters given she is correct. Domain and Range are hard concepts to understand, the lensmakers equation by nature of being a thin lens formula insists that it is an approximation not an accurate result. The term for this in engineering terms is "discretization", very necessary in the day and age of paper and pen, not as necessary in the 64bit parallel processing world of today. I'd prefer a proof from snells law in the equation and a slight tweak to the lensmakers equation (see link to post from above) but the video was great quality for the level taught.
    Of course units of measurement is important. If she wants to plug into Lensmaker Equation an object distance in cm, then yes her formula needs to be consistent and convert it to use centimeters

    100 + 100 = 100
    l(cm) f(cm) l(cm)

    or if object distance in millimeters (mm) then

    1000 + 1000 = 1000
    l(mm) f(mm) l(mm)

    Yes she made an error, but Georgian College produced this video and sent it on to YouTube.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    I would never hire a graduate from BC College of Optics.
    You cannot learn in 6 months that others learn in 2 years.
    Perhaps ‘you’ could not learn the optical competencies to work as an optician in ‘only 6-months’, but for the past 32-years our BCCO grads have done so.

    So what if ‘you’ personally wouldn’t hire a BCCO grad… many other optical shops in Canada have done so, and continue to do so. It’s all about competencies, not process.
    Last edited by tmorse; 03-24-2016 at 04:36 PM.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    Of course units of measurement is important. If she wants to plug into Lensmaker Equation an object distance in cm, then yes her formula needs to be consistent and convert it to use centimeters …

    100 + 100 = 100
    l(cm) f(cm) l’(cm)

    or if object distance in millimeters (mm) then

    1000 + 1000 = 1000
    l(mm) f(mm) l’(mm)

    Yes she made an error, but Georgian College produced this video and sent it on to YouTube.
    1/-60 + 1/25 = 1/l' (in centimeters in her example)
    l' = 42.86cm

    100/-60 + 100/25 = 100/l'
    l' = 42.86cm

    It's called the "Properties of Equality"

    In your example above if you divide both sides by 100 you end up with the same formula she presented in the video. This is basic algebra and if you do the math you will find that all her values are correct from the video which would not coincide with your theory. This is basic pre-algebra and should be a pre-requisite to the pre-requisites to enter any program.

    (again NAIT graduate here with an understanding of math and the metric system)

    It is this underlying understanding of math and optics that leads to mastery of the subject, rote learning and rigid memorization of formulas and units is not how I teach my children. I find it refreshing that she uses an unconventional unit in the lensmakers equation and also explains the pitfall to it in the video, this shows a mastery of the subject, I would take a course offered by her any day.

    Last edited by MakeOptics; 03-24-2016 at 02:08 PM.
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