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Thread: Electronic measuring equipment for digital freeform lenses

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    Electronic measuring equipment for digital freeform lenses

    Hi, I recently joined OptiBoard but I have been visiting as a guest for years. I have to say that there is a considerable depth of knowledge and experience amongst the members, not to mention the colorful personalities. I would like to start a discussion on the automated equipment available for measuring and displaying frames. There is the CyberEyes, Optikam, iTerminal, Visioffice, and SmartEyePix. Has anyone had any experience with these machines?

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    Rochester Optical WFruit's Avatar
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    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFruit View Post
    It took me a few minutes to use the search function, but I found these:


    Hopefully that will be a good start for you.
    Thanks, those were a great start. I still would be interested in some more recent feedback both positive and negative for the latest versions of these if anyone cares to chime in.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Java99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorjmjb View Post
    Thanks, those were a great start. I still would be interested in some more recent feedback both positive and negative for the latest versions of these if anyone cares to chime in.
    Feedback is going to vary depending on what you're mostly interested in the machine for. They're all a little different, some are better at side by side frame comparisons, some take different and a manufacturer's proprietary measurements, some are great at product demos.

    I have used Cyber Eyes, Visioffice, Optikam and demo'd SmartPix.

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    I would be interested in all of the functions that these machines can perform. Considering the investment, it would be good to get the most out of the equipment. I think product demos is very important (a machine of that cost should not sit idle, but pay it's keep.) It would also be nice to have the equipment facilitate all of the measurements necessary for the freeform lenses. It should particularly make it easier for the newbie optician. And the equipment should allow for ease of measurement for all brands, not just it's own. Accuracy, speed, ease, esthetics are all important. Most important is personal experience, I don't need the company sales pitch.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Java99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorjmjb View Post
    I would be interested in all of the functions that these machines can perform. Considering the investment, it would be good to get the most out of the equipment. I think product demos is very important (a machine of that cost should not sit idle, but pay it's keep.) It would also be nice to have the equipment facilitate all of the measurements necessary for the freeform lenses. It should particularly make it easier for the newbie optician. And the equipment should allow for ease of measurement for all brands, not just it's own. Accuracy, speed, ease, esthetics are all important. Most important is personal experience, I don't need the company sales pitch.
    When it came time to spend my own money, I bought the Optikam. Its device you put over the glasses had a lever to lock orientation, which is think is more effective than the way the Visioffice measures head cape. It also seemed to be better on the reflection issue, which was discussed at length in some of those threads linked above.

    None of the machines are good for newbies, because newbies can't tell when they're done something wrong to make the machine give bad results. For example: bad seg measurements due to poor frame pre-adjustment, PDs off because the device that fits over the frame wasn't centered, weird vertex measurements because of reflections or old rx lenses in a POF. Poor customer posture that the new person didn't see.

    All of these devices require skill on the part of the user and sound optical background knowledge to know when to second guess the machine. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's my experience. When used properly, these measurements are much more accurate than a pd stick and a marker, but they are not a magic bullet optician-replacer.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Java99 View Post
    When it came time to spend my own money, I bought the Optikam. Its device you put over the glasses had a lever to lock orientation, which is think is more effective than the way the Visioffice measures head cape. It also seemed to be better on the reflection issue, which was discussed at length in some of those threads linked above.

    None of the machines are good for newbies, because newbies can't tell when they're done something wrong to make the machine give bad results. For example: bad seg measurements due to poor frame pre-adjustment, PDs off because the device that fits over the frame wasn't centered, weird vertex measurements because of reflections or old rx lenses in a POF. Poor customer posture that the new person didn't see.

    All of these devices require skill on the part of the user and sound optical background knowledge to know when to second guess the machine. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's my experience. When used properly, these measurements are much more accurate than a pd stick and a marker, but they are not a magic bullet optician-replacer.
    Absolutely +1!

    B

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    Well, I guess the Optikam jumps out to a quick lead. Thanks for the input WFruit, Java99, and Barry Santini! You have been a lot of help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorjmjb View Post
    Well, I guess the Optikam jumps out to a quick lead. Thanks for the input WFruit, Java99, and Barry Santini! You have been a lot of help.
    The only thing it doesn't do it measure for Essilor's Eyecode lenses, which can only be done on the Visioffice. I think some of the demos are prettier on the Visioffice, but the Optikam's are plenty good enough. And I can take pics on the Optikam using an iPad, which is how we do POS, so it becomes a bit more portable.

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    I purchased the Optikam and have used it for the past 5 years. I am one of optikam's biggest advocate and I go to both VEE and VEW as a live testomonial for the product. If you need any information or you would like to have a two week trial, feel free to call me at my office 732-350-1900.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Java99 View Post
    The only thing it doesn't do it measure for Essilor's Eyecode lenses, which can only be done on the Visioffice. I think some of the demos are prettier on the Visioffice, but the Optikam's are plenty good enough. And I can take pics on the Optikam using an iPad, which is how we do POS, so it becomes a bit more portable.
    I have to take into account that the Visioffice can interface with my Mr. Blue. Has anyone had any experience with that?

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Java99's Avatar
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    Sorry, no help w/ Mr. Blue. One thing I would ask myself though is would my staff actually use the data it pulled into Mr. Blue, or would they still work from paper?

    I would also try to talk to anyone who has used this feature. I had the Visioffice in my last position very early after its release, and it was supposed to interface with Office mate, email photos, and have the ability to print from Visioffice to a networked printer. A year later it still did not do any of those things, which could very well have been a support issue rather than a software issue, but it was unresolveable in either case. It also had a lot of misspelled words, and the European product names on some screens, which irritated me to no end, but was honestly pretty inconsequential.

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    I took a class a few years at VEW and the class title was "How to Improve Your Optical Business", the class content was in its ENTIRETY about the Optikam. I was furious that I paid for a commercial that I could have gotten at the booth for free, in a third the time. The ABO approved that? Yikes. Thankfully they have tightened their approvals since then.

    I call on about 400 practices a year, and most of the cameras I see purchased end up as dusty paperweights after only a few months, after the excitement wears off.

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    Bringing digital measurements, lens option simulation, pre-fit "image" training for apprentices and the ability to take pictures of customers with multiple frames to view is a no brainer. I wish I had the opportunity to visit those practices that are not using them to show the value and then get a piece of the action, lol...
    * Measurements: Once trained correctly to utilize many of these systems, your heights and PD measurements will be at least as accurate if not more accurate than what you are doing manually. Mono-pd's taken with the frame pre adjusted and on the customer are more accurate than pupilometers when the pd's are not symmetrical.
    * Using our own experiences when speaking with the customer about lens products is smart and works well, adding simulation is the WOW opportunity to really help the consumer see how the lens will impact their lives.
    * Pre-fit training is 10X more effective when you have the ability to show a picture of the result to the apprentice or optician who has something to learn or to be patted on the back. The best athletes in the world use visual tools to improve their game, why shouldn't we?
    * While some customers do not want their picture taken, most appreciate the opportunity to see not just the front of the frame on themselves, but also the the temple side shot that in many cases brings fashion to the frame.

    Some systems are terrific when you consider all four of the uses above and some fall very short. make the right purchase...

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    The last comment is stated perfect. I use the Optikam everyday and it has made a significant impact in my office. Anyone that purchased a dispensing system and not using it is missing a great opportunity or purchased the wrong system. I have made more money using the system, impressed numerous customers with using the digital centration and patients that cannot see when taking off their prescription glasses really appreciate the frame selector. Although I have had no problems in the 30 years I have taken measurements, I see the benefit when using the digital centration. Patients feel I am using the state of the art technology and have told others about their experience in my office.

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