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Thread: Attention Opticians: Please stop blaming organizations for our failings.

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    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Attention Opticians: Please stop blaming organizations for our failings.

    I have said the following in another thread:

    "the problem is NOT the ABO, it is the general ability of opticians. The ABO as a Certifying Agency must meet the standards of the National Commission for Certifying Agencies. The exams must be professionally rendered, and evaluated based on the skillset and knowledge of the profession. If too many people fail, the test is called into question. However, I call opticians' poor educational background into question and blame that for the continual "dumbing down" of the test. Honestly, by calling the organization into question, you demonstrate that you do not understand how professional testing is done and evaluated.'
    AND
    "The test is weak, and that's a reflection on those taking it, not the organization. As a certifying body, they must make the certifying exam reflect the general competency level of those in the profession. When I/we say the NOCE is a "Mickey mouse" exam, we have to realize that's because we are populated with "Mickey mouse" opticians.
    If the NOCE had a pass rate of 5% like the Advanced NOCE (which is a much better benchmark for what an optician should be), the National Commission for Certifying Agencies (NCCA) would be all over the ABO. The ABO is not the problem. Opticians are."
    -to have it completely ignored and the "Blame the organizations" start right back up.

    Let me clarify. When I say "opticians" or "we" or "you", I mean as a collective. The handful of exceptions are not enough to have made a difference, obviously.

    Optometrists (and the other EDUCATED professions) realized the value of a comprehensive education. There was a large financial incentive in it. A comprehensive education across a field gives that profession the ability to regulate itself.
    Opticianry has no such education. We think we know and understand things we do not. We don't know what we dont know, and when a couple who do come along and try to inform us, we poo-poo them away, saying "they're so arrogant, they think they know better than us". THEY DO. Opticians do not understand statistics or psychometrics. Opticians are not broadly educated enough to successfully regulate their own profession. This should be obvious to anyone working as an optician.

    Look at Americans today. Ignorant, lazy, and entitled. Uneducated, uninformed, unskilled and unemployed. We're hemmoraging jobs because we are ignorant and easily taken advantage of by those smarter and more educated. We are not comfortable with these truths about ourselves, and we will brook no politician who tells the truth. We want to be mollycoddled, and told we are all winners. When we were attacked in 1941, FDR asked everyone to commit to the war effort. When we were attacked in 2001, Bush asked us to go shopping. Opticians have much in common with the average American, while the educated professionals do not. The OMDs The ODs, and the retailers have been smarter and more educated, and they have taken advantage. Do you blame them? We were an easy mark.

    Do NOT blame the ABO, who necessarily MUST create a standard exam that reflects you, optician. Do NOT blame the OAA, who you will not join or support when it calls for you to do so. If you wish to blame anyone, look in the mirror. Blame yourself, optician, for being too uneducated to understand how a profession must be managed. Blame yourself, optician, for wanting the easy route of apprenticeship, and allowing it for others. Blame yourself, optician, for allowing your leadership to get away with the "go shopping" equivalent for your profession, instead of demanding "contribute to the war effort".

    I offered to pay for the Advanced exam for anyone in my workplace who could pass it. Why? Arogance? No. Because I felt that anyone who learned enough to pass would inherently be an ally, because they would have elevated themselves out of ignorance. I can not communicate "optics" with those who are ignorant of the basics and unwilling to learn. In the same way, Warren McDonald and Roy Ferguson have been unable to communicate the need for a professional education to people who don't have or want one. We can't run this profesion, because we don't have a common understanding of what it takes to do so. We think we do. We are wrong.

    I suspect most of the following commentary will prove me right, yet the commenters themselves will not realize how well they prove my points. Let the flaming begin...
    Last edited by Wes; 04-06-2012 at 09:07 AM.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Thank you Wes. This reflects some of the issues and attitudes I've also encountered over the years. As much as I have wanted to walk away from the fight, I find myself compelled to remain, these days more as a supporting player. While I hung up my PD stick in '06, I'm still an active member of my state and national orgaizations and will remain so.

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    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    You ask for opinions, then arbitrarily (offensive term deleted) on those providing the same. All the while making baseless claims, insinuations and wild guesses about ones ability to hold their opinion from a wildly detached vantage point of what you think you know about them, their reasons, or anything at all about their actual life experience.

    Good luck with your meetings. Continue to count me out.







    Fezz - time for another pint.
    Last edited by hcjilson; 04-06-2012 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Inappropropriat lanquage

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    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    You ask for opinions, then arbitrarily ******** on those providing the same. All the while making baseless claims, insinuations and wild guesses about ones ability to hold their opinion from a wildly detached vantage point of what you think you know about them, their reasons, or anything at all about their actual life experience.

    Good luck with your meetings. Continue to count me out.







    Fezz - time for another pint.
    I did say I mean opticians as a collective group. I am sorry you took such personal offence.
    Last edited by hcjilson; 04-06-2012 at 10:36 PM. Reason: remove inappropriate language
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Some links and info for consideration:

    http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newCDV_21.htm


    What Are Psychometric Tests?


    Psychometric tests include personality profiles, reasoning tests, motivation questionnaires, and ability assessments. These tests try to provide objective data for otherwise subjective measurements.

    For example, if you want to determine someone's attitude, you can ask the person directly, observe the person in action, or even gather observations about the person from other people. However, all of these methods can be affected by personal bias and perspective. By using a psychometric test, you make a more objective and impartial judgment.
    Since objectivity is key to using these assessments, a good psychometric test provides fair and accurate results each time it's given. To ensure this, the test must meet these three key criteria:


    1. Standardization – The test must be based on results from a sample population that's truly representative of the people who'll be taking the test. You can't realistically test every working person in a country. But you can test a representative sample of that group, and then apply the results to the specific people whom you test.
    2. Also, a standardized test is administered the same way every time to help reduce any test bias. By using a standardized test, you can compare the results with anyone whose characteristics are similar to those of the sample group.
    3. Reliability – The test must produce consistent results, and not be significantly influenced by outside factors. For instance, if you're feeling stressed when you take the test, the test results shouldn't be overly different from times when you were excited or relaxed.
    4. Validity – This is perhaps the most important quality of a test. A valid test has to measure what it's intended to measure. If a test is supposed to measure a person's interests, then it must clearly demonstrate that it does actually measure interests, and not something else that's just related to interests.



    http://www.proexam.org/credentialing-solutions/
    http://www.proexam.org/credentialing...n-development/
    http://www.proexam.org/credentialing...ic-consulting/
    http://www.proexam.org/credentialing...tice-analysis/
    http://www.proexam.org/credentialing...ical-services/
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    Master OptiBoarder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    I have said the following in another thread:

    "the problem is NOT the ABO, it is the general ability of opticians. The ABO as a Certifying Agency must meet the standards of the National Commission for Certifying Agencies.
    Wes,
    How is it that I don't see the ABO as a agency member of the National Commission for Certifying Agencies?

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    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    Wes,
    How is it that I don't see the ABO as a agency member of the National Commission for Certifying Agencies?
    Wow way to phone it in, I guess all those opticians that have the expired certs on the wall were a little slicker at the game then the rest of us. I just recently let mine expire and every day it seems to be a better decision. I wonder if a class action is in order?

    Let's see they represent us by stealing and misrepresenting themselves.

  8. #8
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    http://www.credentialingexcellence.o...1/Default.aspx
    I found an organization called the "American Board of Opticianry" in the "Health Professions" section. Looks like a crap link, though.
    If you check out your Certificates, they have the NCCA seal on them.
    FYI, I am not a representative of the ABO or NCLE.

    ADD: Also, The "National Contact Lens Examiners" are listed, with a valid link to ABO-NCLE.
    Last edited by Wes; 04-06-2012 at 02:40 PM. Reason: ADD
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    I didn't see that when I looked, good catch Wes. It looks like the link was to an old site the ABO once owned.

  10. #10
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Admittedly, it's not a search-friendly site.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    Admittedly, it's not a search-friendly site.
    No it's not.

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    Master OptiBoarder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    http://www.credentialingexcellence.o...1/Default.aspx
    I found an organization called the "American Board of Opticianry" in the "Health Professions" section. Looks like a crap link, though.
    If you check out your Certificates, they have the NCCA seal on them.
    FYI, I am not a representative of the ABO or NCLE.

    ADD: Also, The "National Contact Lens Examiners" are listed, with a valid link to ABO-NCLE.
    Wes,
    This National Commission on Certifying Agencies (NCCA) website is dated back to 2009, and neither ABO nor NCLE are listed under Accredited NCCA Certification Programs.
    And the ABO and NCLE names appear to be missing in a ‘Search Membership Directory’ listing as an Institute for Credentialing Excellence (ICE) ‘Organizational Member’. *The ICE website does point out that membership in ICE is voluntary, and does not mean that ICE has approved, endorsed or accredited an organization or its certification program.

    So where does that place the ABO and NCLE as a validated opticianry certifying agency in 2012?

  13. #13
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    Wes,
    This National Commission on Certifying Agencies (NCCA) website is dated back to 2009, and neither ABO nor NCLE are listed under Accredited NCCA Certification Programs.
    And the ABO and NCLE names appear to be missing in a ‘Search Membership Directory’ listing as an Institute for Credentialing Excellence (ICE) ‘Organizational Member’. *The ICE website does point out that membership in ICE is voluntary, and does not mean that ICE has approved, endorsed or accredited an organization or its certification program.

    So where does that place the ABO and NCLE as a validated opticianry certifying agency in 2012?
    Ted, you'll have to go on this witch hunt without me. If it concerns you this much, I suggest you begin an inquiry. Perhaps you can start with ABO-NCLE or NCCA?

    Once again, and as you quoted my earlier post, I assume you read it, I am not a representative of the ABO or NCLE.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    Master OptiBoarder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes View Post
    Ted, you'll have to go on this witch hunt without me. If it concerns you this much, I suggest you begin an inquiry. Perhaps you can start with ABO-NCLE or NCCA? Once again, and as you quoted my earlier post, I assume you read it, I am not a representative of the ABO or NCLE.
    Your own words... "Do NOT blame the ABO, who necessarily MUST create a standard exam that reflects you, optician."
    I think they will do whatever they want to, and without any official oversight.

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    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    Your own words... "Do NOT blame the ABO, who necessarily MUST create a standard exam that reflects you, optician."
    I think they will do whatever they want to, and without any official oversight.
    And I stand behind that statement, Theodore Morse, ABOM, FCLSA, NCLE-AC, BC College of Optics. You tout credentials from the same agency you wish to impugn? Good luck with that. You cannot refute my position, so you have attacked the organization itself. As I said, go on your own witch hunt.
    Last edited by Wes; 04-06-2012 at 08:20 PM.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    As an aside, even if you are correct, which I highly doubt, the basic NOCE was stupid-easy long before 2009, and it's for the reasons I stated earlier.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    What's your point with all of this, Ted? As an "educator", I would assume that you would have been for the Formal Education position, which has so obviously been mine for years. What are you really about?
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    Master OptiBoarder
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    We may not be that far apart, as we both are assailing the basic ABO and NCLE exams.
    As an opticianry educator, I impugn only the current ABO executive’s exam policy that perpetuates the ABO basic exam as opticianry’s credential, and makes use of it as a cash cow.
    To progress as a profession, I firmly believe that the higher-standard ABO-AC and NCLE-AC must be made the minimum ABO standard for an ‘optician’ qualification, even in the licensed US States. I happen to have a particularly high regard for this ABO and NCLE ‘Advanced Certificate” standard, and have said so in many of my posts.

  19. #19
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say I assail the exams as much as I feel they are not a good determinant of what the field should be, but they are "truly representative of the people who'll be taking the test." As the Advanced exams have a 5%-10% pass rate with the small percentage of opticians and cl fitters who are brave enough to try them, if they stood as the standard for everyone, they would have a much lower pass rate, probably in the range of .5%-1%. As I've explained, this would not be acceptable to any accrediting agency. The problem is not with the exam, Ted. It's with the quality of the optician the US is producing.

    Here's what I see:
    Wannabe opticians take the basic exams and fail, and think they're too hard.
    Good opticians take the exams and think they're too easy. These same opticians blame the exam provider for the exam, and assume its the certifying body's fault. These good opticians think this because they know nothing of how the test is deemed standard, valid and reliable. The fact that you are still debating this with me indicates that you do not either.

    The ABO is not to blame, nor are they the answer.

    Until the US can create a quality standard level of practice, we will not have a quality standard optician. The test reflects us, not the certifying body. The ABO has no regulatory authority. The states do. We have a Federal system of government, and each state decides what is best. Many of these states have decided that the NOCE and CLRE are what they feel is best. Some have decided that yesterday's burger flipper is best. That brings the average level of practice down, dontcha think? I disagree with them on all counts, but who am I? New Jersey, with a requirement of 30 formal ed hours is ahead of the pack.

    Licensing in each state is the answer. Mandatory formal ed, with a gradual increase, culminating in the end of apprenticeship is the answer. When that happens, the national certification exams will naturally become more rigorous, because they will "truly representative of the people who'll be taking the test."
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    I want to make this clear to all who read this. I am making these posts to try to educate you, the more intelligent opticians, who are unaware of how tests are created and validated, so that you can understand where the problems lie. They lie with us. They lie with the state leaderships, or lack thereof. They lie with our weakness, and our apathy, and our ignorance. If enough of you know and understand the process, you can effect the change we need.
    I do not make these statements as an advocate of any organization. I make them as an advocate of what opticianry can and should be. You can heed these words and demand more from yourself and your leadership. You can become the leadership. You can demand more from your suppliers and employers, or you can fade away into irrelevance. You can choose ignorance and apathy or knowledge and wisdom. Read my signature line and think about it.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    You ask for opinions, then arbitrarily (offensive term deleted) on those providing the same. All the while making baseless claims, insinuations and wild guesses about ones ability to hold their opinion from a wildly detached vantage point of what you think you know about them, their reasons, or anything at all about their actual life experience.

    Good luck with your meetings. Continue to count me out.







    Fezz - time for another pint.
    I do remember you being invited? Why would they want to exclude such a positive force of logic and kindness?

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    My wife and I tell our kids it is their responsibility to get good grades, not the school or the teacher. I am a professional and the lack of professionalism in our industry is the reason we are coming off our best year ever while continuing to grow. We charge more than anybody else and i am not a nice guy; so we must be doing something right.

    We use the rest of the industry to tell folks why we charge more and deliver what we promise! People like us because we treat them as professionals and they treat us the same way- or they are asked to leave the store.

    If you seek, you become! I just hired a guy from a warehouse optical and he will excel under our wings and soar like an eagle; he is a professional trapped in a nonprofessional environment and he made the best of it to excel anyway.

    I hired him on the spot and gave him a raise to show him how much we value his skill set.

  23. #23
    OptiBoardaholic CNG's Avatar
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    Professionalism is not dictated by the location that you work at. If you look a little closer at "warehouse Opticals"you will notice that some of those places pay very well their employees and their employees actually enjoy working there something that I never understood. I for one enjoy self employment but miss my paycheck and the fact that I could forget about my job when im off, now this is 24/7. As far as credentialing, it is our fault, not the organizations. Even though I have an ABO, NCLE was a member for almost two decades of the national assoiation, I never once understood really how this organizations elect their leaders. My amount of dollars for membership is limited so Im very careful who I choose and the way I see it, only my state organization can take my money.

    We can argue all day long but the system is broken because the term optician is not nationally valued, the opticians are uneducated not so much in optics as we tend to believe but are rather immature professionally. The only way is to require either a prerequisite associates degree in any discipline prior to entering opticianry apprenticeship or the shorter degree that Tmorse suggest and another pathway is the actual associates degree in Optics.

    Licensing in every state will never happen in US. We fought independently as we seek turf now a bigger threat has arrived that only can be fought by grouping opticians, optometrists, chains and ophthalmologist. We passed national legislation once and its time to do it again, it has nothing to do we scope of practice but it has to do with health dollars spend in optics.

    CNG

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNG View Post
    Professionalism is not dictated by the location that you work at. If you look a little closer at "warehouse Opticals"you will notice that some of those places pay very well their employees and their employees actually enjoy working there something that I never understood. I for one enjoy self employment but miss my paycheck and the fact that I could forget about my job when im off, now this is 24/7. As far as credentialing, it is our fault, not the organizations. Even though I have an ABO, NCLE was a member for almost two decades of the national assoiation, I never once understood really how this organizations elect their leaders. My amount of dollars for membership is limited so Im very careful who I choose and the way I see it, only my state organization can take my money.

    We can argue all day long but the system is broken because the term optician is not nationally valued, the opticians are uneducated not so much in optics as we tend to believe but are rather immature professionally. The only way is to require either a prerequisite associates degree in any discipline prior to entering opticianry apprenticeship or the shorter degree that Tmorse suggest and another pathway is the actual associates degree in Optics.

    Licensing in every state will never happen in US. We fought independently as we seek turf now a bigger threat has arrived that only can be fought by grouping opticians, optometrists, chains and ophthalmologist. We passed national legislation once and its time to do it again, it has nothing to do we scope of practice but it has to do with health dollars spend in optics.

    CNG
    The general Optician knows very litte about optics, unfortunately. This is the fault of the the silly "apprenticeship" system. It is, in fact, not a true apprenticeship at all, but cheap labor. We are failing the future Opticians again by not requiring some level of basic knowledge acrss all jurisdictions. You can clearly see a declie n knowledge, skills and ability in the declining pass rates of the overly simplistic NOCE, and in many of Dr. Ferguson's posts regarding the state exams pass rates that cover basic knowledge. You are correct that we need some standard education.

    Now, some well-intentioned person will now comment that my assertion is not correct. They were trained by the world's greatest Optician, and that may be true. There are excellent folks trained via apprenticeship, but largely it has been a failure. Opticians trained in that manner have no idea what they do not know because they were never exposed to anything other than what their trainer provided them. As example is several folks in Texas, who were ABO-Master Opticinas, and felt real good about their level of knowledge. They submitted themselves to the NAIT Optician Science program and quickly understood how little they actually knew. Moost passed the courses, BUT trust me, they were not real sure at the end if they had made it or not.

    Some take these things as a personal affront, and that is not what is intended. You are no worse or better than anyone, and you did not control your training program, only followed the path prescribed for you. But in many cases the path was not well-defined. We must now consider the future of the field, and how to improve it for those who come after us. It is not about us.........too late for that. It is about shaping a better future. We must defire the knowledge, skills and abilities Opticians need, and it must be done by those who have a broad understanding of the entire field. We can accomplish great things if we start of the path soon. If not, I fear it will be too late.
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 04-07-2012 at 09:53 AM.

  25. #25
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    One additional comment. Some who come from strong licensed states have no real clue about others beyond their borders. While there are a few solid, well-prepared Opticians out there in unlicensed states, the vast majority followed the path prescribed for them. Remember the stiff requirement in those states to call yourself an Optician is a pulse.

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