Unfair Frame Return Policies

**chip anderson** · 03-16-2012, 04:12 PM

Our latest conflict is with Safilo, but many companies have put us in this position. If for some reason we do not see our rep as often as should be. Many times a company or line may be without a rep at all for exteended periods.
The Mfg. policy is: Frames can only be returned by the rep. If we go for long periods of time without seeing the rep, some of these frames become "discontinued." The company does not send us E. Mails or other notifications when a frame is or is about to be "discontinued." We have no way of returning such frames without a rep. We have no way of knowing what we should return in such event. When the rep or new rep appears and works our boards, he sends in non-moving frames (appearently the rep himself doesn't always know what is discontinued.)

Then we get a song and dance from the mfg. that credit for such and such is not allowed because of discontinuation.

We have appearently no recourse in this situation.

Anyone else have a similar b____h?

Chip

**rbaker** · 03-16-2012, 04:38 PM

It makes perfectly good sense to me (and Safilo.) This is just more monkey business as your vendor exploits a new profiit center. If this policy upsets you cease doing business with Safilo and in the future remember that when you buy it you own it.

**David_Garza** · 03-16-2012, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by rbaker

If this policy upsets you cease doing business with Safilo and in the future remember that when you buy it you own it.

Well stated.

**Barry Santini** · 03-16-2012, 04:54 PM

It is estimated that frame "returns" add approximately 25-30% to the wholesale cost of eyewear.
I'd rather buy 'em and own 'em, for less scratch.

B

**TLG** · 03-16-2012, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Barry Santini

It is estimated that frame "returns" add approximately 25-30% to the wholesale cost of eyewear.
I'd rather buy 'em and own 'em, for less scratch.

B

+1! Frame wholesalers have created an entire industry of bad buyers with their liberal return policies. If you suck at purchasing sellable eyewear then 'the system' works for you. I agree totally with Barry -I would love to have an option of purchasing without return privileges for much less but haven't found anyone willing to bite yet.

**LENNY** · 03-16-2012, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Barry Santini

It is estimated that frame "returns" add approximately 25-30% to the wholesale cost of eyewear.
I'd rather buy 'em and own 'em, for less scratch.

B

Good luck getting 25%-30 off!

**chip anderson** · 03-16-2012, 10:55 PM

Your thoughts on no exchange purchases are fine. But I don't know of anyone who sells that way except on close-outs.
I was hoping that enough of us thought the present system is chicken____ to inishiate a change or at least fairness in the present "arrangement."

Chip

**braheem24** · 03-17-2012, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Barry Santini

It is estimated that frame "returns" add approximately 25-30% to the wholesale cost of eyewear.
I'd rather buy 'em and own 'em, for less scratch.

B

I can't believe I'm typing the but...

+1

...way to go Barry!

**Lulubelle** · 03-17-2012, 12:52 AM

I used to rep for a company that had two pricing structures. 1) was less pieces and returnable. 2) was larger minimum, deep discount and non-returnable. Either way you still had a warranty and the product wasn't discontinued. Buyers had the option to choose which worked best for their business.

**Chris Ryser** · 03-17-2012, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by Barry Santini

It is estimated that frame "returns" add approximately 25-30% to the wholesale cost of eyewear.
I'd rather buy 'em and own 'em, for less scratch.

That is the right attitude. Only the estimate is too low. The cost of returns and warranties is much higher than that. There was a time when only factory defects where exchanged at no charge. Returns where only accepted within 30 days of the invoice date.

When the frame manufacturing exploded with many more frame producers offering their goods, competition became fierce and wholesalers started to offer these goodies as free consignment, you only paid what you sold, you could return anything at any time, but you never realized that you paid double the actual wholesale value of a frame.

Since the Chinese takeover of frame manufacturing, it is most probably even way more than the double. This can easily be veryfied by going on the AliBaba website (i am not posting the link) which lists just about all manufacturers and products at factory prices.

**Diane** · 03-17-2012, 06:37 AM

I remember the day when we used to "buy and own". Demand took frames in a different direction. Now, we all pay for it.

+ 1 on Ownership.

Diane

**Craig** · 03-17-2012, 07:18 AM

We buy it we own it and we do not have any warranties on our lenses for non-adapt, RX changes or scratches. If we buy it we own it most of the time and that is fine with us.
Maybe the question to ask is why the rep did not call on you? Are you a good account? Do you returns exceed profitability?

We don't take frames back from customers so why should the frame company take them back?

I left a message yesterday for a rep asking if he wanted to swap out some slow sellers or put on the 1/2 off rack.

**obxeyeguy** · 03-17-2012, 09:37 AM

If you must buy from the big boys, and need to have exchanges made, there is a simple solution I used to use. Get an un-dated, signed return authorization form from the rep and keep it in their file. Rep quits or stops coming by, grab it and return all the frames. Replace as needed.

**Java99** · 03-17-2012, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by TLG

+1! Frame wholesalers have created an entire industry of bad buyers with their liberal return policies. If you suck at purchasing sellable eyewear then 'the system' works for you. I agree totally with Barry -I would love to have an option of purchasing without return privileges for much less but haven't found anyone willing to bite yet.

I agree completely! In what other industry can you pay more for the privilege of unlimited exchanges? I would much rather be stuck with what I've purchased than pay more.

**rbaker** · 03-17-2012, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by obxeyeguy

If you must buy from the big boys, and need to have exchanges made, there is a simple solution I used to use. Get an un-dated, signed return authorization form from the rep and keep it in their file. Rep quits or stops coming by, grab it and return all the frames. Replace as needed.

More monkey business.

**obxeyeguy** · 03-17-2012, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by rbaker

More monkey business.

Please elaborate, as your response makes zero sense to me.

**Speed** · 03-17-2012, 06:59 PM

Tag your frames with color coded tags. Never keep anything but a hot seller more than six weeks. Send back all else. That keeps your displayes clean and new. You are the customer. You may need to get OYA and work a bit, but you need to get up and take control.

**sharpstick777** · 03-20-2012, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Speed

Tag your frames with color coded tags. Never keep anything but a hot seller more than six weeks. Send back all else. That keeps your displayes clean and new. You are the customer. You may need to get OYA and work a bit, but you need to get up and take control.

+1

**sharpstick777** · 03-20-2012, 12:15 PM

The other issues is not just the buyers, but the reps themselves. I after a year I asked one rep to p/u 4 frames that had not sold, although she said yes, I found those 4 frames scattered on the frame boards the next day. Did she really think I would never find them?

I have had reps dump product, sending extras I didn't order. (I documented the unordered frames, explained to her District Manager that according to Federal Law if I am sent a product I didn't order I am obligated to pay for, and then demanded a credit of all the frames)

I have had reps dump frames with style, they send the 16 we ordered, but the rep padded the order with B/O frames so they didn't arrive in the same shipment. 4 extra frames came in the next few weeks that were not on the order list hoping we wouldnt care or notice.

So are returns bad? Yes, the but the companies themselves contribute to this through commission only sales reps. Its a bad combination to allow no returns and commissioned reps at the same time.

**chip anderson** · 03-20-2012, 02:08 PM

I just got an E. Mail from ROI optical which I do not do business with but, the E. Mail had an attachment listing frames that are or are about to be discontinued. Now how hard would that be for all manufacturers to supply to all thier accounts?

Chip

**sharpstick777** · 03-20-2012, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

I just got an E. Mail from ROI optical which I do not do business with but, the E. Mail had an attachment listing frames that are or are about to be discontinued. Now how hard would that be for all manufacturers to supply to all thier accounts?

Chip

Although its good for the dispensers, its not good for the manufactures. Say you get a list of pending discos, say you return said discos, now the manufacture has a flood of even more frames that they don't want.

**B101875** · 03-20-2012, 04:11 PM

This is why I love Kenmark. I am in a Middle Income area, not too Rich and Not to Poor. In come Lorreta from Kenmark. 3 years no questions asked returned policy. I love her. My whole office loves her. Everyone is in such a good mood when she comes in! And the poeple on the other end of the phone are so nice to work w/ when you are looking for a frame. Kenmark!

**chip anderson** · 03-20-2012, 07:59 PM

Sharpstick:

I am in the retail optical business, what do I care what's good for the manufacturer? If they are sold to me with right of return, I damn sure want to be able to exercise that right. If this dimms the rep's commission or the companies profits "which in many cases we know is items costing them under $5.00 an being sold to us for $35.00 to $110.00 or more wholesale" I for one am not going to worry about thier price on the stock market.

Chip

**tntborden** · 03-21-2012, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Barry Santini

It is estimated that frame "returns" add approximately 25-30% to the wholesale cost of eyewear.
I'd rather buy 'em and own 'em, for less scratch.

B

+1

**Chris Ryser** · 03-21-2012, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by B101875

This is why I love Kenmark. I am in a Middle Income area, not too Rich and Not to Poor. In come Lorreta from Kenmark. 3 years no questions asked returned policy. I love her. My whole office loves her. Everyone is in such a good mood when she comes in! And the poeple on the other end of the phone are so nice to work w/ when you are looking for a frame. Kenmark!

If I would have had to sell frames with such a policy during my 20 years as owner of a frame distributor company, and have a 3 year return policy and take them back after such a time span with a smile..............................you would have overpaid said frames by about 300%. And that is what probably happens to you.

Maybe you would be better off owning these frames outright form a company that sells you the frames without an eternal take back policy and if not sold after 3 years make sale or put tinted lenses in it and sell them as sunglasses.