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Thread: autograph 2 fixed and variable

  1. #1
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    Blue Jumper autograph 2 fixed and variable

    I was woundring what the diffrence is from the fixed and variable on the autograph ?
    We found out that you can give a pt more reading or more intermediate with the variable but can do the same with the fixed . I just got back from a optcal preview and I am more confused now . Any help would be great thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave E View Post
    I was woundring what the diffrence is from the fixed and variable on the autograph ?
    We found out that you can give a pt more reading or more intermediate with the variable but can do the same with the fixed . I just got back from a optcal preview and I am more confused now . Any help would be great thanks
    The difference is in the vertical size of the intermediate and near corridors. The first thing you need to remember is that the Auto II guarantees at least 5 mm of full reading power in all of their designs. If you choose the variable that means that you will always have at least 5mm of max reading power at the bottom of the lens, sometimes more depending on the seg height. The variable is meant to be the simpler of the 2 options, you just tell the lab the seg height and that you want the variable and that's the end of it. However, the variable is not used that often anymore since most labs, and even Shamir will admit this, find the fixed design to be far more successful.

    The fixed design gives you a bunch of options, you just have to do the math depending on seg height and what kind of fixed size you're using. You have 4 options: Fixed 11, Fixed 13, Fixed 15 and Fixed 18. All of these guarantee at least 5mm of max reading power, if not more than that at the bottom of the lens. This is where it gets a little tricky but once you grasp the concept it's easy.

    Example: You have fitted your Auto II at 20mm. If you choose the Fixed 18mm design, then that means that 13mm below your fitting point, the maximum strength of the reading prescription will begin to engage. The remaing 7mm of lens will all be that maximum reading strength. Now let's say you elected for the Fixed 15 design. In that configuration, the max strength would begin to engage 10mm below the fitting point, leaving 10mm of lens devoted to max reading strength. With the fixed 13, it engages 8mm below and with the fixed 11 it engages 6mm below the fitting point.

    Hope this helps. If in doubt call your Shamir or lab rep, there's a pretty handy chart running around that can do most of the calculations for you depending on seg placement. Just remember, the main benefit of the fixed design is that you the optician have the ability to dictate exactly how much intermediate vs reading power your patient can have in their lenses.

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    Pay special attention to post#12!

    http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...raph-II-Fitter

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    There is one additional thing to Laurie's post in the thread Fe"The Great"zz references.

    With the Variable, the software will also move the placement of the add power horizontally if the software thinks that the reading power will be cut off by the frame shape.
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFruit View Post
    With the Variable, the software will also move the placement of the add power horizontally if the software thinks that the reading power will be cut off by the frame shape.
    You meant vertically, but you typed horizontally. I hate when that happens to me.
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  6. #6
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    More on Variable/Vs./Fixed:

    Now that large frames are back in style, we are discovering that if a patient moves from a short 'B' design, regardless if they wore a fixed or variable, had a similar visual experience (getting to the near point zone faster), they will do better in a fixed design for larger eye sizes.

    Since they were getting into the near zone faster, they may not like the visual experience of it taking longer to get to the near zone with a variable.

    The 'word on the street' now, is to lean towards the fixed designs.

    One company I know of in the Southeast with many locations is simplifying it by the following:

    If a fitting height is 14 or below, they are using the Fixed 13.

    If a fitting height is 15 or above, they are using the Fixed 15.

    If the patient is going into an uber-large frame, they will jump up to Fixed 18, but not often.

    The fixed 13 and 15 do very well with the majority of fits.

    Hope this helps,

    (disclosure, in addition to teaching optics I give edu seminars for Shamir)....

    : )

    Laurie
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    PS:

    What WFRuit is referring to (I think) is 'Freeframe Technology', where they dynamically place the near zone, and 'build it out from there', so patients can have a bigger choice of frames with steep nasal-cuts and not have the add cut off in the process.

    And, Robert, you nailed it years ago with using the Fixed. In the early days it was difficult to teach opticians around the country how to best use the Fixed, and the Variable was easier. Today I think we are getting it, and the opticians can be more involved with selecting the best lens for the patient. (you visionary, you!)

    : )
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Thanks for all the help I am starting to get this .
    What would you do if a pt would like more of a intermediate than a reading and there seg ht is 18 . We us mostly zeiss at are office but we are starting to use other brands because zeiss is kind of limited on what you can do and I was woundering if the autograph has a wider intermediate than the gt2 3d or if there is a nother lens out there .

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    The optimal (in terms of anatomical comfort) gaze lowering needs to be considered when determining the placement of the near and intermediate zones.

    To place the zones with the anatomical lowering in mind, you have to account for the vertex distance and the pantoscopic tilt as well.

    Here is a picture demonstrating how the favorable position of the near zone is affected by differences in fit (pic. from Rodenstock documentation):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gaze_lowernig.jpg 
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    What would you do if a pt would like more of a intermediate than a reading and there seg ht is 18 .
    1. Inquire if an office/occupational PAL would suit his needs better.
    2. Change frame
    3. Consider refracting at a larger near distance (50cm?). This will reduce the addition needed and widen the intermediate zone.
    4. Use an Impression FreeSign lens and modify the design: Set DN (near) to -16mm and reise DF to +2mm above the pupil.
    5. [variation of point 4] If far vision has lower priority, raise DF further. This will increase the progression length and thus widen the intermediate zone. It will also place the progression start higher reducing the required gaze lowering for the intermediate distances.


    PALs have narrow intermediate zone. Its the laws of physics and different lenses and brands can't change that.

    If a really wide intermediate is needed, a PAL would likely be a poor choice.

  10. #10
    Rochester Optical WFruit's Avatar
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    FreeFrame it is!

    I finally found an online version of the flyer from Shamir I was thinking of that mentioned what the Variable does in respect to add power placement: http://www.robertsonoptical.com/PDF_brochures/Shamir_Autograph2.pdf (with thanks to Robertson Optical, with whom I am in no way affliated, for putting this on their website)
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

  11. #11
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    Dave E, one more possibility :

    You can use the Zeiss Gradal Individual® Eyefit with the Intermediate design option.

    http://www.zeiss.de/4125680f0053a38d...257838003eb3c4

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