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Thread: PD responsibilities

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4554lake View Post
    Absolutely.....Ive been lurking for a long time on these forums.....I have a hard time comprehending how so many people posting ,place no value on their skills....And are so afraid to offend anybody who walks in the door....


    I dont know of any other field where service providers will provide their expertise for free,so someone can make the purchase elsewhere...
    Finally......a Canuck with backbone!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledzinator View Post
    I can definitely see your point on that and I agree. I just think we should make the best of a poor situation. As we all know the online retailers are here to stay. I want to be the one with the net when they aren't satisfied with their glasses.
    You definitely only aspire to mediocrity, with a "roll over and die" attitude. I hope you are not mentoring the next generation of optician, by example.

    Onliners are only here to stay...... if you let them.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post
    You definitely only aspire to mediocrity, with a "roll over and die" attitude. I hope you are not mentoring the next generation of optician, by example.

    Onliners are only here to stay...... if you let them.
    That right there is the reason it took me so long to join. You think I am only aspiring to mediocrity because of my OPINION on 1 subject! I am doing what I can to aspire to something greater. I live in an unliscensed state and I am working towards getting my ABO-AC and hope to one day earn my ABOM.

  4. #54
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledzinator View Post
    That right there is the reason it took me so long to join. You think I am only aspiring to mediocrity because of my OPINION on 1 subject! I am doing what I can to aspire to something greater. I live in an unliscensed state and I am working towards getting my ABO-AC and hope to one day earn my ABOM.
    Water off a duck's back. From one ABOM to an aspiring ABOM, Stick around.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  5. #55
    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    <snipped> consumer advicates and the press will fan and leverage to make us look like we are unfairly denying the public free choice for eyewear, lower-cost or not.
    Capitulation? No thanks. How about a better PR spokesperson?
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  6. #56
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Better spokesperson?? There's a spokesperson???

  7. #57
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    SV & Bif/Trif glasses were made for DECADES with a binocular PD. let's get real about how harmful the "wrong" PD actually is. When you (over) simplify it, accurate mono PD's most closely affect progressive utility in moderate to high adds. As far as the importance of unwanted prism, Rxs today are insufficiently complete or robust enough to predict problems, discomfort or harm with unwanted prism, IMHO.
    I'm open to being corrected here, however.
    Go.
    B

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    SV & Bif/Trif glasses were made for DECADES with a binocular PD. let's get real about how harmful the "wrong" PD actually is. When you (over) simplify it, accurate mono PD's most closely affect progressive utility in moderate to high adds. As far as the importance of unwanted prism, Rxs today are insufficiently complete or robust enough to predict problems, discomfort or harm with unwanted prism, IMHO.
    I'm open to being corrected here, however.
    Go.
    B
    So because we did it wrong in the past, we should continue doing it wrong in the present and future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    I tend to think, in keeping consistent with the FCLCA, that eyeglass Rxs will no doubt be required to Include a PD to allow free and unencumbered redemption by consumers...particularly when EMR/EHR become the norm for transmitting eyewear "health" info.
    Honestly, this makes no sense, especially coming from you. You KNOW that a basic PD will generally result in garbage glasses. I've read your articles and posts. You're smarter than this, and you can't play both sides of the fence with us. An eyewear rx is in no way similar to a CL rx because in the eyewear rx, the frame size, shape, dimensions, vertex, panto, wrap, and wear habits are not taken into account. Isn't this what you teach in your articles? Yes, because I've read them. You discuss freeform this and that, aspheric and atoric this and that, and then suggest that a binocular PD is good enough for anyone? I smell a RAT! There is FAR too much left off an eye exam to make a good pair, because the frame is unknown in the RX process. There is NO way to prescribe GLASSES from the chair. I know you know this, because you are at least as knowledgable as I, and I think more so. Your facts are usually spot on, but... Whatever it is, you play both sides of the fence far too often for me to put much stock in your opinions.

    Here's what I'm afraid of: I think you're gaming the system to rid the world of the "average " optician so that a premier optician like yourself can be more successful in the aftermath. Please tell me I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Wes; 03-14-2012 at 11:48 PM.
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  9. #59
    ABOM Wes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by himmeroo View Post
    Back in the day.I did some wholesale work for an OD and everything was 4 in,4 below.Of course all the work was Flat tops.Never had a remake from him.
    This is a bad idea on so many levels...
    Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA

    “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein

  10. #60
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Wes:
    I truly believe adequate Is the right term for describing a bino-pd pair of SV or Ft eyewear. Years ago, it wasn't really wrong, just adequate (but we weren't aware of that).
    If you read my stuff, you know I loathe using right or wrong to describe eyewear.
    In order for excellent to truly shine, there must be adequate to be compared against. Im not for adequate, but i think it is unrealistic to say all eyewear has to be excellent. Even before the advent of online, this was true, and remains so, IMHO today.

    B

  11. #61
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Bino Pd eyewear, using non FF lenses , is no different whether bought online, or in a (poor) b&m.
    I'm not trying to play both sides. I am firmly on one side, but realistic enough to concede the other side exists, and should remain an option for those who would desire to choose it.
    That is the *best *way the public can truly come to appreciate what you and I and others here do.
    It would be foolish of me to say everyone should the same home entertainment equipment that I di, because anything less is garbarge.
    Whose to say? I only know that there are differences, and I believe enough in what we do to not fear that adequate will take over for excellent, simply because it's price appears initially more attractive.

  12. #62
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    Blue Jumper False advertising by on-line opticals...............................

    Quote Originally Posted by 4554lake View Post

    absolutely.....ive been lurking for a long time on these forums.....i have a hard time comprehending how so many people posting ,place no value on their skills....and are so afraid to offend anybody who walks in the door....

    i dont know of any other field where service providers will provide their expertise for free, so someone can make the purchase elsewhere...





    lake.................you are so right,............................. I just posted the question on "Google -----------> "about pupillary distance"


    Resulting in : About 178,000,000 results (0.08 seconds)

    



    About 10 years ago Google did not even know what a PD was, today this has become a common topic because on liner opticals did advertise that opticians supplied this information for free, as well as did not charge for adjustments and follow ups.

    This would actually be misleading advertising as in Canada http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/e...eng/01222.html
    and in the USA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_a...ng_regulations

    Instaed of hackling on this issue for an eternity you could actually consent to charge for your services and then sue the on-liners or have the governments sue them under their current laws. You would see that the on-liners would change their advertising tactics very fast and would say go to the opticians and have the service done against a certain fee, and part of the problem would solved very quickly.

    Do not forget that many posts on OptiBoard will be available on Goggle minutes after they have been made.


    Last edited by Chris Ryser; 03-15-2012 at 03:19 AM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Bino Pd eyewear, using non FF lenses , is no different whether bought online, or in a (poor) b&m.
    Are you suggesting that those of us who don't use Free Form lenses are working for crummy opticals? I do agree everyone should have a mono pd, but not everyone wants or needs a free form lens to get quality glasses.

  14. #64
    Master OptiBoarder MakeOptics's Avatar
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    I'll sell them the PD for $50 and it come with me sitting down and helping them choose the right size frame (to a degree) from their online optical of choice and picking the right materials and options. If they want to come back in for an adjustment $30 for 1/2 hour of my time in adjusing them. I let them know that they are only saving if they don't need these services with the glasses but if they need the services since no one is providing them they can see me.

    As for the Free Form thing, I have not seen much information to either qualify or disqualify anyone from a FF lens so rather than think of it as not everyone needs it, until I can justify not giving the best vision to everyone then they all need it. I make money and they get the best, which BTW is still the best whether they need it or not.

  15. #65
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by optilady1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Bino Pd eyewear, using non FF lenses , is no different whether bought online, or in a (poor) b&m.
    Are you suggesting that those of us who don't use Free Form lenses are working for crummy opticals? I do agree everyone should have a mono pd, but not everyone wants or needs a free form lens to get quality glasses.
    Of course not. Simply that thete is little distinction between eyewear only when only the very basic fitting principles are employed.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by optilady1 View Post
    Are you suggesting that those of us who don't use Free Form lenses are working for crummy opticals? I do agree everyone should have a mono pd, but not everyone wants or needs a free form lens to get quality glasses.
    I'd say that unless you are using those new Free Form silicone nosepads that I'm custom making in my Batcave then yes you are working at a crummy optical. Hahaha.
    90% of everything is crap...except for crap, because crap is 100% crap

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhiTrace View Post
    I'll sell them the PD for $50 and it come with me sitting down and helping them choose the right size frame (to a degree) from their online optical of choice and picking the right materials and options. If they want to come back in for an adjustment $30 for 1/2 hour of my time in adjusing them. I let them know that they are only saving if they don't need these services with the glasses but if they need the services since no one is providing them they can see me.

    As for the Free Form thing, I have not seen much information to either qualify or disqualify anyone from a FF lens so rather than think of it as not everyone needs it, until I can justify not giving the best vision to everyone then they all need it. I make money and they get the best, which BTW is still the best whether they need it or not.
    This is a really good idea. I've heard charging the PD discussed, but not the entire package. Great idea!

  18. #68
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    Why do people get eye exams? Why does a trained doctor do it? Do is looking for diseases and complications. Why does the doc perform refraction? Who knows, maybe something else will be picked up during refraction that is correlated with other tests prior to refraction. In the end, the doc is measuring an organs ability to function, and part of that is diagnosis is writing down the Rx.

    However, Doc is not taking any other physical measurements required to build eye glasses!!! This is the eyeglass tailors job.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinEyewear View Post
    Why do people get eye exams? Why does a trained doctor do it? Do is looking for diseases and complications. Why does the doc perform refraction? Who knows, maybe something else will be picked up during refraction that is correlated with other tests prior to refraction. In the end, the doc is measuring an organs ability to function, and part of that is diagnosis is writing down the Rx.

    However, Doc is not taking any other physical measurements required to build eye glasses!!! This is the eyeglass tailors job.
    +1. Patients pay us for an eye examination, not a glasses measurement.

  20. #70
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    I just don't see how they can ever determine that it should be included with the Rx? If its not an exact number that everyone gets when measured the same, then it's subjective.
    So if Doc get 30.5 OD and I believe 31.0 OD then who's right? See why it'll never be required with a refraction.

    I don't even think our Doctor knows
    how to take a PD, and on top of that he's never worn glasses nor does he plan too. He's a lunatic when it comes to that stuff and thinking about people's wallets, but he does one hell of a complete examination. People love him and since he's employed by us, all we ask is that he does the comprehensive exam and refraction, and give the patients their Rx.
    If they have questions, he simply says "you should discuss that with one of the dispensing opticians."
    This handoff obviously could be done differently and more $$$ if he was doing what others doctors do, but it's not always in the patients best interest and we're doing very well this way.

    If they choose to get their glasses elsewhere they'll be measured by those opticians. So if they choose to go online, they can be measured by their optici...wait...oh they don't have any? Ok, well they haven't negotiated any salary with me to do their work, so I'll just tell the patient this.

    Ask them why online? They'll usually reply $$ or convenience, but we carry products to meet that criteria and will certainly make them what they would have purchased online, only with our service.
    Honestly we've only had 4-5 over two years but the topic does intrigue me.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
    And you told her??????
    Hit da ROAD Jack..

    'n don't come back no more, No More, NO MORE, no more,

    Hit da road, Jack...

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyf1509 View Post
    I just don't see how they can ever determine that it should be included with the Rx? If its not an exact number that everyone gets when measured the same, then it's subjective.
    So if Doc get 30.5 OD and I believe 31.0 OD then who's right? See why it'll never be required with a refraction.

    I don't even think our Doctor knows
    how to take a PD, and on top of that he's never worn glasses nor does he plan too. He's a lunatic when it comes to that stuff and thinking about people's wallets, but he does one hell of a complete examination. People love him and since he's employed by us, all we ask is that he does the comprehensive exam and refraction, and give the patients their Rx.
    If they have questions, he simply says "you should discuss that with one of the dispensing opticians."
    This handoff obviously could be done differently and more $$$ if he was doing what others doctors do, but it's not always in the patients best interest and we're doing very well this way.

    If they choose to get their glasses elsewhere they'll be measured by those opticians. So if they choose to go online, they can be measured by their optici...wait...oh they don't have any? Ok, well they haven't negotiated any salary with me to do their work, so I'll just tell the patient this.

    Ask them why online? They'll usually reply $$ or convenience, but we carry products to meet that criteria and will certainly make them what they would have purchased online, only with our service.
    Honestly we've only had 4-5 over two years but the topic does intrigue me.
    The PD is a simple parlor trick in the service provided, they would be much better served by me suggesting the right combination of materials, coatings, and features. That's what really makes a good pair of lenses couple that with the right pair that fits their face and avoids having them look like Mr. Magoo, that's where the expertise comes into play. Hell I'll give the PD away if people will let me get a picture of what they end up with when they have had no guidance, it could be used as a PSA of avoiding the real crux of what I personally do.

    Hey but if the majority of opticals are full of ruler jockeys, then by all means let's fight this online PD thing.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinEyewear View Post
    Its not about territory. Its about common sense. The pd us used to build the glasses. The pd is not used for contacts. It is not used for anything, unless someone wants glasses. And the pd is just 1/10 of what should be provided to build proper glasses. Its about educating the press that the pd is worthless and has nothing to do with an Rx until all other parameters are selected, the lens, the frame, ect..... Should the pt decide they want glasses, then an expert optician can provide accurate measurements at that time. I don't see a reason to clog up exam rooms so people can get pds, nor do I see a reason to mislead the public that if they have a Rx and a PD they are good to go. Its just simply not true.
    Bra-vo.

    Listen to Austin, who gets it.

  24. #74
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    Fifty Ways To Leave Your Doctor

    Smart-phone refract, Jack
    Choose the RayBan, Stan
    Onliners employ, Roy
    Listen to me.

    Add some more plus, Gus
    You don't need an Rx much
    Demand your p.d., Lee.
    They'll take it for free.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Smart-phone refract, Jack
    Choose the RayBan, Stan
    Onliners employ, Roy
    Listen to me.

    Add some more plus, Gus
    You don't need an Rx much
    Demand your p.d., Lee.
    They'll take it for free.

    I love you Doc, but PLEASE do not quit your day job!

    :poop::poop:

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