Warren has presented the issue effictively
Pinpointing a definition and recognition in society of what an "Optician" is determines the validity of the profession. Otherwise an optometric or ophthalmic assistant could blur the distinction. I think that fighting to make that distinction clear is critical for the future. Bob I respect your opinion but I hope you think about what "firewalls" you have to protect your right to continue your job as a dispensing Optician.
:cheers: Jerry
The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground
Hello Everyone,
If Opticians want to be recognized for their skills (whether it be Professional or Trade), there needs to be some way of showing the public as well as your co-workers that you have met a level of standards that allow you to call yourself an Optician. Not saying that opticians in Unlicensed states are not qualified to practice opticianry, but how can we be for certain on who to trust!!
I am currently working in a lab and I am attending school to become an optician in FL. FL has a very strong licensing board, and even we have come underfire by politicians. But we stuck together and the public got involved and saturated the governors office with letters expressiong concern of deregulating this profession. We have the big chains here also, so that is not a good excuse. Guess what, we won!!!
I believe that there is an easy solution. The tough part is getting all of us to ban together to fight for our profession. As far as education. I think it should be a four year endeavor. No not a B.S. degree, and not a 4 year apprenticeship. But a mixture of the two: a 2 year degree program in Opticianry (including Refractometry); and a 2 year apprenticeship or externship with a requirement to show competencies in all facets of opticianry. Upon completion of all the requirements, then you may take the ABO/NCLE and a state licensure exam.
If that were to happen we could definitely prove to our peers (and more importantly to the public) that we are skilled and qualified to practice opticianry.
If we could organize then we could give the public the assurance and confidence that they will be helped with their eye care needs by qualified people. If you would rather keep things the way they are and bicker amongest ourselves and be divided then go ahead. But I personally want to "uplift" the profession and give us the respect we deserve.
PS If we do all of this then we can start discussing the higher salaries we are all looking for!!!!!!!!
Need2focus
How about we separate education from licensure? All of us have had various kinds of education and most of us not from the "Ivy League" schools.
One can get an MBA from an Ivy League school and another from an obscure university, nevertheless the public only generally knows that the person has an MBA degree and somewhat of the meaning but only the MBA's who are saying "mine is bigger than yours" knows the subtle differences.
The public does not "hire" only 4.0 Lawyers, Dentist, CPA's or Optometrist, but they do look for those titles.
Where we dropped the ball is by not making the ABOM the standard for opticianry in America. We could change the name to CPO (Certified Public Optician) or something like that. Nevertheless, it needs to be sold to the public and NOT to the legislators - those greedy ***'s are by an large too vote hungry to really care about the actual good of the public. Too bad that opticians, both licensed and unlicensed, continue to sit on the ABOC's and think that passing an MINIMUM COMPENTENCY EXAMINATION makes them a valuable optician.
The consumer still pays all of our salaries and they choose by name recognition and not license. We need an nationally recognizable symbol that can be sold DIRECTLY to the consumer.
After that, who the hell cares if we have a license? If we have the confidence of the customer by our consistant service then we have the higher "salary" we might have been looking for ... plus job satisfaction.
This, however, can not be accomplished without education, formal or otherwise.
Need2Focus:
We need to develop our own schools and move in the direction of the 4 year program you describe. But we should provide the student with a 4-year degree upon completion. We could design the program in the model of Optometry and Medicals School and give academic credit for the seconmd 2 years of clinical instruction. We would have then a BS Degree, which would serve us well. We just wouldn't require the liberal arts/sciences of the traditiopnal undergraduate curriculum for entry. Students would come directly from high school. It is done in many other professions and that clinical training, if well structured, is valid and academically acceptable. Look at the OD and MD programs, most of their last 2 years are clinical. It can work.
One question in regard to the 4 year program....and I am NOT saying I am against it. What is our pay going to look like? If it is what I am making now I would have to say why bother. If I am going to be making an excellent wage than I say yea I would go for it. I am sure there are a few of us that probably feel that way.
Steph
I agree with your evaluation. I am all for education. I am all for AS and BS degrees, however, it will not work for me since I would 63 when I finished and would realize no benefits except the feeling of accomplishment and the joy of increased knowledge.
For you young things, the question is, as you stated, "what could I expect to make" after the degree. The school I have talked to about setting up some kind of opticianry program ask the same question. They have turned down the program, not because there is no need but because there is no definable earnings increase.
Until we can demonstarat that, we will see the continued demise of opticianry schools. We need ABO to require education before the MINIMUM COMPENTENCY EXAMINATION (which is the only nationally recognized criteria to date) and then require more education (which they have just recended) for the Advanced and Masters certifications. This combined with the licensed states requiring the same level of education to maintain a license could be a huge step in the right direction. Do you think you will see the licensed states or ABO move in that direction? Fat Chance!
Stephanie,
I would think pay would eventually increase along with the scope of practice expansion. But it will not happen over night. Education in itself will not "pay" you. It is the application of knowledge. Look at overall levels of income for degree holders versus non-degree. It is significant.
Warren
Hi Warren,
I agree with you about the salaries gradually increasing. While working @ Waterman training iinstitute in San Mateo, CA (6 month optician program) we saw our students starting salaries increase significantly within 6 months.
Once the word got out that our students had a solid foundation to build upon many employers were calling us trying to get workers. We literally could not keep up with the demand. After graduates of the program got their feet wet and began gaining some "real world" experiences their careers took off much faster than those who were trained on the job. The students also found their jobs (careers) more interesting having the optical theory background.
I truly believe strong licensing is important to protect the public by forcing opticians to perform at a certain level. Licensing also creates an organized system of professional development if continuing education is implemented.
-Brendan Walsh
Are the wages really going up or is that just your impression.
State Statistics??
How much more than the average wage increase are you seeing for educated opticians?
Hi Homer,
These are not state stats or anything. It was just an observation with the school I used to teach for. When it first opened up new grads were being offered only about $8-$9 per hour. Once word got out that our grads were generally well versed in optics, dispensing and lab they were being recruited for $11-$14 per hour.
Keep in mind that this was SF bay area and the cost of living is very high (notice I am living in CT now) Apartments could range 900-1100 for a studio or 1 bedroom. The above wages were generally typical for starting wages for someone with the 6 months schooling and a 1 month externship.
It was difficult to sell the program without promising high wages but those that completed and stuck it out generally got rewarded.
I saw some stats a while back regarding salaries for opticians with a 2 year degree VS. apprenticeship and the schooled opticians earned significantly higher wages. I am sorry I cannot locate the data right now(I believe it was eyecare business). In many situations it is hard to find opticians that are willing to teach the apprentice/ the managers seem to want just worker bees.
-Brendan
I followed this thread and some of the statements are pretty interesting and some I thought were kind of off base, I started out in optics in a lab, and NO not all lab people are "opticians," and as it becomes more automated "lab" people become less educated in theoretical optics.. A lab claiming all our lab techs are "opticians" are living in a dream world :-) We used to have to take a test to be a "bench optician" and it was a fairly hard test, I have taken the ABO and the lab test was a LOT harder, you had to know theoretical formula's inside and out.
I went back to school, through Hillsborough Com.Col., via the web and driving back and forth for finals and such and found it to be very interesting. Some of the things that I found interesting was the range of things covered to get the degree...You are required to have anatomy and physiology .. a place where I see a lot of opticians lacking, which comes in very handy if you dispense contacts. You had to take refraction, also comes in handy understanding some problems that come up and help understand when someone walks in with a script and you can spot some problems.. I already knew refracting, both on a minus and plus phoropter as well as trial framing but I still think it is a needed part of becoming lic., EVEN if you do not or can not refract in your office...classes in lab theory and fabrication, classes in strict optical theory, contact lens fabrication and dispensing and the medical side of fitting and dispensing.. classes in dispensing.. etc., etc..
I always looked at optics as a house of cards... you have the theoretical side to build upon than it all falls into place and starts to make more sense and you understand why something is working or not working...
I also think that a lot may depend on what you are doing in the field, you just selling glasses, getting them in the door out the door with a limited choice of designs available to you and materials, than no, being lic. or not lic. is not going to matter ... you OWN a store and have a stake in the sales, than if you are Lic. or not, you better understand as much as you can about optics if you want to survive..
Does it make a difference, sure it does, I became a teaching site (my lab) for people in the lab portion of the degree, and I could see the definite result of people who understood the theoretical part behind what they were doing have a direct result on the $$, I saw these guys start using their knowledge to benefit the patients..and benefit themselves through the type of sales.. I saw those guys who were depending on "ad slicks" telling them how "great" a design was and or how "great" this material was ..learn to evaluate the things on there own...
I WAS very surprised by the lack of knowledge people in the "industry" had when we started taking the classes, you find a big difference in ones that are "chain" trained who have a limited choice of options by the corporations than those who had freedom of choice, and even those ones who were in private practice were limited as well, I poked around and asked a lot of questions and found that the VAST majority of them have only tried a hand full of designs, a lot of them when asked were quick to say "oh that design does not work" but the majority of them had not even tried it :-) ..
Is being Lic. important? I think so, will it improve wages..yes.
Job security? yes... now will it make a difference in education? nope (as I seen mentioned up in the thread) SHOULD we require a further education for the Lic. ? yes ...You remember that Optometrist started out as a "optician" and than it moved into requiring a degree .. things are a changing, for the better (?) not real sure, but the insurgence of Ins. taking over optics and third party plans than things are going to have to change.. the vast majority of OD's I know are doing more work now for less money or to equal the money they were making, they are putting the wagons in a circle and fighting everything about anybody extending the scope of practice.. in this case the OD's and chains happen to share a common interest, keeping the opticians down :-)
Might as well get ready, the ins. companies are devaluing the OD's and as technology increases and you get less hands on to get the answer than they will want a "new" level of people to fill the void...
Sort of a "full circle" ... back to "opticians" doing the refracting..like it was originally :-) It's a quick changing world and it's going to have some growing pains and be pretty bumpy, if anything, you need a platform to be battling from, atleast if we were ALL lic. we would be on the same field to battle from :-) When it does start, the chains are going to jump ship and start hooking up to the circle where they can save the most money.. I'm afraid the Od's are the ones going to get caught out in the open..but the more "fractured" they can keep the opticians the better off they are :-) Sometimes ya got to look at the big picture and what the FUTURE might be..
Jeff "just my penny worth" Trail
This is the same old argument that I have seen on this board for years. I agree with Chip, Wmcdonald,Homer and the wrest of you.
Problem is all we do is talk and argue instead of trying to do something. I believe the first thing is to get everybody to agree on something. Whether national lic. or pulling the states together into a mega lic. Lets find out what the next issue that needs to be accomplished and do it. Hey states agreed on a mega lottery why not Mega Optician Lic. I know lottery pulls in tons of money, but it least it's a start. Or maybe Im just dreaming.
Remember when you look in a mirror you don't always see what you want to see.:bbg: :( :bbg:
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