We currently use Varilux and essilor lenses, but we are looking into a different lab that likes the seiko lenses. Cost is a lot less on these, and they are really talking these lenses up. Any input? Are these lenses comparable?
We currently use Varilux and essilor lenses, but we are looking into a different lab that likes the seiko lenses. Cost is a lot less on these, and they are really talking these lenses up. Any input? Are these lenses comparable?
I think they're more than just comparable, having worn so many different designs over the years. My Seiko Surmounts are among the best designs I've ever tried.
I think seiko freeform lenses are definitely better.
I know I am stir up the stink here, but having tried both I find Seiko's far superior in optical quality. It should be noted that Seiko invented back-side Free-form in 1993 so they have an advantage. The Seiko Surmount is currently my favorite lens in the world, and I have tried a lot of lenses.
But going deeper, how do you choose your lenses for each patient? What if I like Safilo Elasta frames, so I only put only Elasta frames on every single patient? You would think I was crazy. The deeper question is how and why you fit the lenses you do. Switching brands without switching dispensing philosophy will only net mediocre improvements. Switch lenses and move to personalized lifestyle lens fitting, and you will rule the dispensing world (at least your corner of it).
Seiko all day long
My only caveat to the accolades about Seiko is that I have experienced non-adapts with conversions from Comfort when the frame wrap angle exceeds 4-5 degrees. According to my Seiko rep, the default wrap angle Seiko uses is "0" (zero).
This may explain why.
B
Very interesting thread, I have been debating the same thing myself, though I work at an office that has been fitting varilux since dinosaurs roamed the earth. That being said I've been edging more and more of those "wrapped" dress frames that everyone loves, ft28s, digital backside round segs and Physio enhanced's mostly in those (with the occasional Auto II).
I've been following Seiko for a couple years again, but my only hands on experience with Seiko's lenses has been the Proceed back when I was with Lux, and they were ALWAYS the most accepted PALs we got to dispense, from my experience.
I even laughed to myself thinking that the S in Varilux S's stood for Seiko (because of patents I heard Essilor was allowed to borrow?)
We use manual measurements only at the office and I'm definitely the one who deals with the "difficult" jobs in this respect.
I'm wearing Varilux S right now and am not impressed. At my laptop, I just can't seem to find any clear zone.
We've done well with Seiko over the years, but have had problems with the AR.
My office takes Davis and I've always noticed under Ultra Progressive (the most premium progressive Davis allows under certain plans) only Seiko lenses are available, no Varilux which is what I'm used to. I haven't logged onto Seiko's website to get the nitty gritty on the Surmount, Supercede & Succeed lenses. Can someone tell me the comparable Varilux lenses that are similar to these Seiko lenses so I might try dispensing a few and see what patients prefer? Is the Surmount Seiko's most premium progressive?
...just point your nose to whatever you're looking at...
We have tested, by switching current Varilux wearers and fitting them with Seiko, and also surveyed these clients.
They were either Panamic, Comfort, or Phyiso/Physio Enhanced wearers.
We only fit Supercede/Ws and Surmount/Ws. A total of 62 so far. Each was asked a series of questions at dispense, and again 2 weeks later. A few were followed up a third time another 2 weeks after that at their request for more "wear time".
everything from previous lens, measurements, frame, material, etc was recorded. The same for the new fit.there satisfaction with both pairs, and their response to situational wear and experiences were recorded.
Anything we could think of that a company would want to know about their own testing.
The patients were not aware until the phone call at two weeks.
At that time, if 100% satisfaction was not their feelings, we made the necessary improvements, and offered a 2nd pair at 50% off frame and lenses.
Only 2 of 62, had to be remade. 1 was not happy until switched back, the other was happier after an Rx change.All were inside RXs, and 24 purchased a second pair.
21 felt they saw better from the new Rx, but felt the lens "worked" the same.
39 saw a vast improvement visually. It's detailed out so we can easily see where an Rx change made a big difference, or where there was the same Rx and they definitely still saw improvement.
Only really the 1 remake could be considered the loss.
Its all much more detailed in our spreadsheet, and I'd like to upload it in the Pro's Forum but cannot figure out how. (if you can help, thank you)
Ideally, we'd like to side by side these in same RXs, frames, etc.
But that's not always possible in this case, so it is what it is.
Having so many 2nd pairs made was great, and those were also followed up with calls and I've started a new data sheet of more of the same. 38.7% multiple pair would be outstanding, if we can continue that, and that'd be reason alone to do this on and on.
Reasoning: First, simply much more profitable. With our results do far, there is no reason why we should spend more money to get the same or lesser results.
Second, availability of materials and selection, coupled with a lab switch.
Third, can't assume a product is best because it's worked and is "safe".
if our goal is excellence is service, our lenses must also deliver excellence. Can't afford not to know what works best for us!
I wouldn't just say this brand is better than that brand. But some lenses work better than previous lenses and others are optimal in certain situations. But it's a real live study for a practice, and it is what's best for our practice and our clients.i
Love numbers, data, tests, spreadsheets, working with the public, and everything fascinating about this field. And money :$)
So I can't help it, that's why I wanted to share.
Id love to have you all see my research/testing because I know you'll have the perfect questions to improve my work, and hopefully help us all.
Anthony, THAT ROCKS! I love it. I did the same thing many many years ago, but not as thoroughly as you did. We found out from taking data off the intake forms in the late '90s that patients returning after wearing early FF lenses one year had half the complaints with night driving. We began collecting more data on index cards and intake forms after we found it usefull, to see what lenses work the best where and on what RXs. In the end, I was only collecting high details on non-adapts, because simply we were doing 80 pairs of progressives a week. That data is one of the reasons I went all Free-form in 2005.
I would love to see your data, so if you cant post it please email it to me... amuzed2pieces (at) gmail (dot) com. I will dance the happy dance.
You should maybe start a whole new thread? I would hate to see your great post buried.
Originally Posted by anthonyf1509
I've been using Seiko perfas lenses for years (mostly the same as succeed and supercede, just house branded and produced in Minnesota). the quality is great, and the ability to choose corrdior lengths helps (especially when compared to varilux s..). I'd had a few issues: The rep tells me that they preferred fitting in 10 degrees panto, and the ar coating quality is occaisonally spotty...
The issue I have with the high plus prestige II which is the same as supercede is the really flat base..which is extreme..think about a +10 rx with a +9 base curve...I've only had non-adapts with high plus as a result. This is especially true if the old pair had a lower index and "normal" corrected curve base curve".
You may want to try the Surmount for all your plus patients, its an amazing lens for hyperopes. When I fit the first one on a hyperope, he just walked around looking at everything and smiling, he said it was the best vision he had since he was a kid.
I agree. I have had beautiful results with the Surmount, and people seem to feel like the Seiko product has less swim. I think this is due to the wrap design. I have found that I don't have to wrap the frame as much as I do with many of the big E products. Price is palatable too!
I wear the surmount trivex and it's comfortable for golf. Getting ID Lifestyle from Hoya on Monday. Will let you know
Money carefully refunded
welcome to Optiboard grif892!
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