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Thread: Is Opticianry Dead?

  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by jediron1 View Post
    That maybe true in some instances but to insinuate we are ignorant just because we don't agree with you is in my opinion the height of arrogance. And don't say that's not what you implied because by leaving the quote the implication is quite clear.
    I have argued that professional advancement for opticians must come through formal education, that we are the only uneducated health related field, and that the current level of knowledge held by the many opticians in the United States is rudimentary at best. These positions can hardly be considered arrogant; simply statements of fact.

    The opposing view seems to center around arguing against the need for formal education, the permanent adoption of ignorance as a professional standard, and that opticians are best served by learning through osmosis. It’s difficult to apply a label to this position.
    Last edited by Roy R. Ferguson; 10-11-2011 at 09:19 AM. Reason: typo

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I've GOT IT! I'm gonna go dig through my old boxes, and find my tassel from high school graduation. SURELY THAT will influence people to know that I'm smarter than the average McTician and the money will no doubt rain down upon me! (Because NONE of the other paper on the wall works!) And if the graduation tassel doesn't do it - I'm resorting to stripper tassels. THAT'S SURE to make an impression on my eyeglass buying public! ;)




    It might make an impression but only if you can twirl those stripper tassels! Now back to
    more serious items. I still believe in education and licensing. The problem is that the Boxe
    s who do a lot of hiring put No priority on hiring licensed opticians. When you have RM's
    who have no optical experience and couldn't tell a pd stick from slap stick then you have
    a problem. Another one is most MD's OD's are unwilling to pay top dollar when they can h
    ire someone off the street and have them work under there license. I just went on an interview
    for an MD OD practice because I wanted to get away from the Big Box commercial site a
    nd back into a doctor situation that is more professional image than the Box. I was told m
    y resume was quite impressive and then came the loaded question how much are you see
    king? I said with my credentials and work history I would like 20 per hour! That was only
    because I wanted to get out of the Box environment because I can go to the Wally World
    Box and get 26 per hour but I don't want the box anymore. Well that was a month and h
    alf ago and I have heard nothing. So my point being the people who do the hiring don't want to pay for experience or education. I been told more than once we can just hire someone off the street and train them all for 9 or 10 per hour so why should we hire you and pay you that much. At least in Western NY that's what is happening here!

  3. #353
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    * Note to self; Never move to Western NY.

  4. #354
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    Anyone who is advocating for mandatory education at a higher level than what they currently hold is just lazy and blowing hot air.
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  5. #355
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    Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    * note to self; never move to western ny.




    really!

  6. #356
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    Sadly to say but our economy has litterally consumed and digested our Opticianry field. There are so many big chain retailers such as Lenscrafters and Site for Sore Eyes around and lilttle ma and pops dispensing shops and privately owned optometries are looking out for themselves and laying off dedicated employees. It is so hard to look for an Optician position nowadays...to the point that I feel "may be opticianry is dead". Good Luck to you.

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlayla View Post
    Sadly to say but our economy has litterally consumed and digested our Opticianry field. There are so many big chain retailers such as Lenscrafters and Site for Sore Eyes around and lilttle ma and pops dispensing shops and privately owned optometries are looking out for themselves and laying off dedicated employees. It is so hard to look for an Optician position nowadays...to the point that I feel "may be opticianry is dead". Good Luck to you.



    My point being that I have no problem finding a job but as I said before I really don't want to work for Wally World but I might be forced into it. There is an MD OD establishment that the MD and I know him makes a seven figure income but considerers paying opticians around 18 or 19 per hour! Go figure! That is the point I was making. I would like to work in a doctor establishment but through out my 37 years in optical I have never seen or heard of an MD or OD paying the going rate.

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye2 View Post
    My point being that I have no problem finding a job but as I said before I really don't want to work for Wally World but I might be forced into it. There is an MD OD establishment that the MD and I know him makes a seven figure income but considerers paying opticians around 18 or 19 per hour! Go figure! That is the point I was making. I would like to work in a doctor establishment but through out my 37 years in optical I have never seen or heard of an MD or OD paying the going rate.
    I think this is the norm. I don't know why. I know I've heard people who own their own place and state that they pay 25-30/hr for a good LO, but I never have been so lucky. Plus, once a person can latch on to one of these jobs, whose gonna leave? I feel that part of the deal with working for a private practice and not working nights and weekends is part of your 'pay/benefits package'. Plus, many of the chains now concider full time to be 30 hours/week, so that makes up for the 6 dollars and hour pay cut. It's frustrating, but these are the things I tell myself so that I don't look like your little red faced smiley.

  9. #359
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye2 View Post
    My point being that I have no problem finding a job but as I said before I really don't want to work for Wally World but I might be forced into it. There is an MD OD establishment that the MD and I know him makes a seven figure income but considerers paying opticians around 18 or 19 per hour! Go figure! That is the point I was making. I would like to work in a doctor establishment but through out my 37 years in optical I have never seen or heard of an MD or OD paying the going rate.
    If an MD is making a $1 million a year, it's only because he does eye surgery. Compare his/her 15 years of training to an opticians then yes, $20/hour seems fair.
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  10. #360
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    If an MD is making a $1 million a year, it's only because he does eye surgery. Compare his/her 15 years of training to an opticians then yes, $20/hour seems fair.
    I've never met an MD with 15 years of training. Ever. There are plenty with 15 years of experience...and often more. But then, that's similar to opticianry isn't it. We all get better on the job - surgeons and dispensers alike. As for the MD business model - most offer any form of dispensary only as a passing "courtesy" to their patients, and not at all as a revenue generator of any consequence for their practice. If they're lucky, they will have hired an appropriate dispensary manager and staff, and it will not only serve the needs of their patients well, but also generate a modest profit for the business.

    If that is the case, there would be no reasonable reason not to compensate the dispensary manager and staff accordingly. Depending on the local market, that may be under the venti hour mark...or in limited cases it could be appreciably more. I find citing a perceived value of an employee to a given business based strictly on their years in school to be flawed logic to the nth degree. Is that indeed the point you were trying to make, or did I mis-read your statement LL?

  11. #361
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Undergraduate - 4 years ( usually majors include math and science)
    4 years med school (here you become a general doctor)
    then an additional residency is required to become an ophthalmologist (usually 3-4 years)

  12. #362
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    Ulle: If you are still naive enough to believe that most MD's have a dispensary as a courtesy (they usually use the word convienence) you are in for a very rude suprise when you get a little older. The only reason any MD ever opened a dispensary was greed.

    Chip

  13. #363
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Ulle: If you are still naive enough to believe that most MD's have a dispensary as a courtesy (they usually use the word convienence) you are in for a very rude suprise when you get a little older. The only reason any MD ever opened a dispensary was greed.

    Chip
    It's not naivety my friend - it's experience. And the past years spent working both for and closely with many MDs. The word "convenience" is theirs not mine, and has been repeated multiple times. Is that the way that all MD's choose to run their business model? No, obviously. But the number that choose to do it to "look good" for their patients might surprise you in reality. The hardware margins for many of them are slim at best. Again, this is direct personal experience here...YMMV.

  14. #364
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    Like I said: Wait til you are older.

    Chip

  15. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by optilady1 View Post
    Plus, once a person can latch on to one of these jobs, whose gonna leave? I feel that part of the deal with working for a private practice and not working nights and weekends is part of your 'pay/benefits package'.
    That's a good point. You don't hear about those jobs, because they seldom turnover. I know that I was on a waiting list to work at the OD's office where I presently work . I have NO plans to leave anytime soon, and when I do, my boss most likely will shuffle through the stack of resumes he has, and pick the next "lucky" employee.

    Regardless of what many on this board believe, these high paying jobs are as difficult to find as it is for the employers to find high caliber opticians. By high caliber, I don't mean order takers, salesmen, uni-dimensional techs, stylists, spectacle only opticians,or contact lens only opticians. I'm talking about opticians that can hand edge a lens down, be able to educate the patient on the latest lens technologies, as well as fit those lenses, and then perform a slit lamp evaluation for a contact lens follow-up. That's what I mean by high caliber.

    Is that you?

  16. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darby View Post
    That's a good point. You don't hear about those jobs, because they seldom turnover. I know that I was on a waiting list to work at the OD's office where I presently work . I have NO plans to leave anytime soon, and when I do, my boss most likely will shuffle through the stack of resumes he has, and pick the next "lucky" employee.

    Regardless of what many on this board believe, these high paying jobs are as difficult to find as it is for the employers to find high caliber opticians. By high caliber, I don't mean order takers, salesmen, uni-dimensional techs, stylists, spectacle only opticians,or contact lens only opticians. I'm talking about opticians that can hand edge a lens down, be able to educate the patient on the latest lens technologies, as well as fit those lenses, and then perform a slit lamp evaluation for a contact lens follow-up. That's what I mean by high caliber.

    Is that you?



    Been there done that!

  17. #367
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I've never met an MD with 15 years of training. Ever. There are plenty with 15 years of experience...and often more. But then, that's similar to opticianry isn't it. We all get better on the job - surgeons and dispensers alike. As for the MD business model - most offer any form of dispensary only as a passing "courtesy" to their patients, and not at all as a revenue generator of any consequence for their practice. If they're lucky, they will have hired an appropriate dispensary manager and staff, and it will not only serve the needs of their patients well, but also generate a modest profit for the business.

    If that is the case, there would be no reasonable reason not to compensate the dispensary manager and staff accordingly. Depending on the local market, that may be under the venti hour mark...or in limited cases it could be appreciably more. I find citing a perceived value of an employee to a given business based strictly on their years in school to be flawed logic to the nth degree. Is that indeed the point you were trying to make, or did I mis-read your statement LL?
    It's pretty close to what I was saying. But I was making the point only on the negative end. A LACK of education is a good reason to pay a low optician wage. However, a long education would not justify a high optician wage. Conversely, an MD pulling down a "seven figure income" as stated above sounds very rare to me but if true, wouldn't bother me in the least.
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  18. #368
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    From what I've heard from various lawyers who handled divorces for OMD's and thier spouses, they usually have three sets of books. One presented in court that shows a good comfortable income. The next for the IRS that shows a small profit and a high salary. And the last for the person who does thier land and condo investments.

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    It's pretty close to what I was saying. But I was making the point only on the negative end. A LACK of education is a good reason to pay a low optician wage. However, a long education would not justify a high optician wage. Conversely, an MD pulling down a "seven figure income" as stated above sounds very rare to me but if true, wouldn't bother me in the least.



    The point I was making was I have the education, experience and management skill but they all say impressive resume and you come with great references but why would I pay you the higher wage when I can get a newbie for about 14? So it's very difficult to get into an MD OD establishment because they don't pay. In New York state I have not heard of an MD or OD that is willing to pay the going rate. Ya you can say in NY city they get 28 but look where your living you need that 28 to make ends meet. Just frustrating!

  20. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye2 View Post
    So it's very difficult to get into an MD OD establishment because they don't pay. In New York state I have not heard of an MD or OD that is willing to pay the going rate.
    Many of them won't pay well, because they don't need the extra income a good dispensary can produce. They're living off of their surgical fees. There's a local MD (just across the river in Ky) that has NO mark-up on his frames, and if he makes a profit on his lenses, he's not concerned. He just wants a dispensary.

    You don't need an employer like that. Find someone that recognizes the value you offer. If they don't exist where you are, then move. That's what I did. (And to a colder climate to boot). If you don't want to move, then get a new career.

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    Methinks Chip overuses the word greed. After all, the only reason anyone goes into business is greed. Chip's greedy - he's an owner. Anyone that opens their own shop is greedy, according to Chip. Give it a rest, will you?
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  22. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darby View Post
    You don't need an employer like that. Find someone that recognizes the value you offer. If they don't exist where you are, then move. That's what I did. (And to a colder climate to boot). If you don't want to move, then get a new career.
    Exactly Darby. True story;

    Back in the 80's when I worked wholesale I was asked to interview for the GM position of a lab in Corpus Christi. I was discussing the employees with the owner and asked how long most had been with him. Most had been there 10-15 years, one or two for close to 20. I found he was paying them barely over minimum wages. I couldn't believe it. This was 1/2 to 1/3 of what Houston and Dallas labs paid. I asked him how he kept them so long at such a low wage. His exact words;

    " These people's family are here. They are tied to the community, and I'm the only game in town."

    This was true, he had the only lab within 150 miles. His offer to me was almost half of what I was making already as a lab supervisor. I've made many moves to further my career. It's not unusual to have to relocate to advance in any field. If you look at opticianry as your life career, relocating may have to be part of your plan for advancement.

  23. #373
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    Chip doesn't think all owners are greedy, Chip thinks all Prescriber Owners are greedy. Think of it this way, if the OMD or OD. just examined and treated and you could be nearby, produced work of a quality (and don't worry if the doc's didn't self refer you could get all the financing you want) A: one hard working prescriber could support possibly three to five dispensaries (he could also make a good living on nothing but referrals from these).
    The dispensers would get a feelin for who's good at what (which we no longer have). The three to five dispensaries would have to compete but other than quality and price, none would have an edge.
    You would make many times more money than you think the good doctor can afford to pay you.
    Probably the local chain would not be recommended.

    As to Chip's own dispensary, it exists just so Chip and his secretary will have a job and hopefully be out of debt before he dies or has to retire due to the deterioration of age.

    Chip

  24. #374
    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    Could be dead!

    Optical could be dead, if your let go by the Evil Empire of Sears and the person who let you go walks out with over 40 contacts w/o paying and nothing is said.
    Optical could be dead if we have no education.
    Optical could be dead if we have no training
    Optical could be dead if we have no education or training
    Optical could be dead if we continue to lay off or just get rid of people over 60
    Optical could be dead if we have online opticals that continue to take a slice of the pie they don't deserve


    Just a little ranting. But the first one is a true story I saw it done!

  25. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post

    This is why I maintain that 4 years schooling, with lab work every semester, is necessary to do it all properly.

    Barry
    +1

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