Is Opticianry Dead?

[optical24/7]

jedi, don't take this wrong, but you keep complaining about the wages paid in your area. I've got friends, family and property in southern Illinois. I'd love to live there! But the wages for opticians in that area don't even come close to half of what I make now. I don't live here because I just love it (though it's not bad!) I live here because this is where the money is.

I've put my child through collage, paid off my house and my wife has never had to go to work. I could care less what the boxes pay, I've never had to go to work for them. Though few and far between, there are employers out there that pay for knowledge and performance, I'm living proof. But you may need to relocate to find them.

One of the choices in life we all must make sometimes is this; Do we live somewhere we love and enjoy a lower standard of living, or must we relocate? Pick your priority.

[jediron1]

I'm glad your doing well. If you would have been consistent in reading the posts my main complaint was against the Big Boxes hiring non licensed people who are baby sat by the Doc. And they were the ones who are hindering opticians both in wages and taking spots that opticians would normally fill.

[Wes]

I'm glad your doing well. If you would have been consistent in reading the posts my main complaint was against the Big Boxes hiring non licensed people who are baby sat by the Doc. And they were the ones who are hindering opticians both in wages and taking spots that opticians would normally fill.

I think we can agree with you that this is a problem. What are you doing to address it? Saying it to us is just preaching to the choir. Again, what are YOU DOING?

On a side note, I didn't know you took the advanced exams. What did you think of them?

[Diopterman]

jedi, don't take this wrong, but you keep complaining about the wages paid in your area. I've got friends, family and property in southern Illinois. I'd love to live there! But the wages for opticians in that area don't even come close to half of what I make now. I don't live here because I just love it (though it's not bad!) I live here because this is where the money is.

I've put my child through collage, paid off my house and my wife has never had to go to work. I could care less what the boxes pay, I've never had to go to work for them. Though few and far between, there are employers out there that pay for knowledge and performance, I'm living proof. But you may need to relocate to find them.

One of the choices in life we all must make sometimes is this; Do we live somewhere we love and enjoy a lower standard of living, or must we relocate? Pick your priority.

Do you think that yourself, or any others that are making a very good wage, would be hireable at or around your current payscale if you lost your job tomorrow?

[kcount]

Jediron1,

This may shock you but the single largest segment to show the most interest in the SAO has been the "Big Boxes". Think of the playing field from their perspective.

Every state has it's own requirement to be an optician, ranging from pulse to stringent exam process. They have a bright and upcoming optician they would like to move from NY to GA to help in a store and open another location in an emerging market. But wait! GA doesn't accept NY's optician license thus this individual can't be easily shifted from point to point.

If your a national company you want all the states to have the same level of entry. It's the hope that the SAO's bar of entry becomes the accepted measure and default level to move from state to state. Is this national licensure? No. Is this a step in the right direction? Yes!

I live and practice in Illinois, an unlicensed state or as I like to call it, 'The Wild West of Optics'. I can truly do what ever I want and there is no oversight or laws preventing me from much. In a state like mine finding qualified help is difficult to say the least. The task get exponentially more difficult the further you get from a major city (read: Chicago). In a place like this licensure as a bar to entry is not only welcome but needed. The opticians association is weak and solely focused on licensure with out education. Each bill is shot down by the very strong optometrists association. Why you may ask? Education. I have asked many of the mover and shakers in the OD ranks in Chicago and they all state the same issue they have with licensure for opticians. No bill has ever had an educational requirement. Until such time as this happens the OD's refuse to support licensure for the sake of licensure. Stop for a moment and reread that last bit. Reword ed the OD's are saying, 'We can support licensure for opticians, but not without education as part of the process." So, if you want licensure in IL add an education requirement to the requirements and you can get the support needed to pass it.

Again and again I hear/read posters complain they don't make enough, they don't get respect, or they dont get the warm fuzzies they want. What I never hear is someone stand up and say, 'I have an idea to fix this problem! I have thought it through and here is an outline of what I believe we should do and steps we should take! Let's get together and work out an action plan. How about an off line meeting?'.

Excuse me, there was one group of optiboarders that did this, of course those people are now being called heretics and upstarts.




PS. @Barry I remember the conversation regarding the NCLE being part of the requirements and I was on your side of the issue. The final call had to do with rounding out the education of the individual and the fact that there are schools that will give you college credit for having both certifications but not for the ABO only. I still don't have my NCLE but will get it if for no other reason than it would be interesting to understand more about this part of my practice.

Gmc said:

Even if you don't share our vision, do something to advance opticianry or at least your own skill level. If you're not ABO and NCLE certified, study for and take the exams. If you are, study for and take the advanced exams. You might be surprised to learn that you don't know everything you need to know to be the best optician you can be.

Do something to set yourself apart. Don't just sit on the sidelines and whine.

I won't slap my own back but I have done all of the above and what did it get nothing. In fact I had one boss tell me " why did you go get your C.O.A.? I said to further my education and be a better optician in the office. He said I need another tech! " as I said before the Boxes and the Empire controls more of this than you think. I won't reinterate what I said before because some of you just don't get it and until you come around to see what's the sense of pounding your head against the wall of opticianry. Why do think places like The Big Boxes and the Empire hire mostly unlicensed people? [/QUOTE]

[kcount]

Yes, he's hireable! He'll just relocate to Chicago and open an office for me!!

Originally Posted by optical24/7
jedi, don't take this wrong, but you keep complaining about the wages paid in your area. I've got friends, family and property in southern Illinois. I'd love to live there! But the wages for opticians in that area don't even come close to half of what I make now. I don't live here because I just love it (though it's not bad!) I live here because this is where the money is.

I've put my child through collage, paid off my house and my wife has never had to go to work. I could care less what the boxes pay, I've never had to go to work for them. Though few and far between, there are employers out there that pay for knowledge and performance, I'm living proof. But you may need to relocate to find them.


One of the choices in life we all must make sometimes is this; Do we live somewhere we love and enjoy a lower standard of living, or must we relocate? Pick your priority.

Do you think that yourself, or any others that are making a very good wage, would be hireable at or around your current payscale if you lost your job tomorrow?

[kcount]

I think we can agree with you that this is a problem. What are you doing to address it? Saying it to us is just preaching to the choir. Again, what are YOU DOING?

On a side note, I didn't know you took the advanced exams. What did you think of them?

Nice Signature line!

[jediron1]

I think we can agree with you that this is a problem. What are you doing to address it? Saying it to us is just preaching to the choir. Again, what are YOU DOING?

On a side note, I didn't know you took the advanced exams. What did you think of them?

If your referring to the C.O.A. I passed it first time. It was quite difficult. They wanted to know what the different drops were, what color bottle they came in ect. The other part was history taking and pre-testing which wasn't hard but the medical part was difficult but I got through it. I do have my ABO and also NOA. I was also on the New York State Board as an examiner but gave that up after a couple years. Mainly they had me paying all my expenses and I just could not keep that up.

[jediron1]

Kcount said: what have you done and what ideas do you have: note I paraphrased what was said.


Have you read all the posts? I put up numerous ideas of what to do and how to get it done! It's nice to sit on the side lines and be a Monday morning quarter back.

[Wes]

Waves hand- these aren't the advanced exams I was looking for.
Subtle star wars reference...

[jediron1]

Kcount said:
Every state has it's own requirement to be an optician, ranging from pulse to stringent exam process. They have a bright and upcoming optician they would like to move from NY to GA to help in a store and open another location in an emerging market. But wait! GA doesn't accept NY's optician license thus this individual can't be easily shifted from point to point



As I mentioned before, at one time because NY had one of the hardest tests we did have reciprocity in many states because I checked. One of those states was Florida. As I said the more rigid the requirement for licensure the better chance you will have on getting it excepted as a requirement every ware.

[jediron1]

Wes:



Really!!!!!

[kcount]

For the record, I was on the ground floor to set up an association to push opticanry forward, I mentor two other opticians, I own and operate a successful office. I give training seminars to the local hospitals techs and MD's further increasing awareness of the educated optician. I had this entire conversation a year ago on another long thread called 'Entry Requirements' that hashed through many of the same issue's. The difference was we actually did something.

Kcount said: what have you done and what ideas do you have: note I paraphrased what was said.


Have you read all the posts? I put up numerous ideas of what to do and how to get it done! It's nice to sit on the side lines and be a Monday morning quarter back.

[Wes]

Hey is that Jedi Ron or Jed Iron?
Anyway, GMC had said something about taking the ABO, NCLE, then the advanced ABO and advanced NCLE. You replied that you had done all that. See post #175.
I was wondering what you thought of them.

[kcount]

Great! We are in agreement! So I should see you registering for a membership with the SAO? Registering online at www.advanceopticianry.org?

Jediron1, I understand your frustration with the chains and discount houses. I even understand your frustration with lack of pay commiserate with your skill set. But, if it's the case that the offices in your area are not willing to pay what you think your worth your going to have to start looking outside your area. Your in Western NY, can you relocate closer to NYC? Can you get closer to Buffalo? In looking back through your posts your repeat Big Boxes (I assume your referring to Walmart and Costco) and The Evil Empire (Lens Crafters?) and stating that these two entities are hindering opticianry. I simply dont see it that way. I would say that opticianry allowed the requirements and the skill sets to be lost and lowered. Opticianry has held fast to a training concept that is outdated at best.

jediron, I think we agree more than disagree, we're just taking different routes to the answers.

KC

Kcount said:
Every state has it's own requirement to be an optician, ranging from pulse to stringent exam process. They have a bright and upcoming optician they would like to move from NY to GA to help in a store and open another location in an emerging market. But wait! GA doesn't accept NY's optician license thus this individual can't be easily shifted from point to point



As I mentioned before, at one time because NY had one of the hardest tests we did have reciprocity in many states because I checked. One of those states was Florida. As I said the more rigid the requirement for licensure the better chance you will have on getting it excepted as a requirement every ware.

[Wes]

Kevin, I think we have a lot more in common with most of these guys than they think. I really don't get the hostility. Someone actually compared me to Emperor Palatine. Muah-hahahah

[gmc]

The onlythingy about the this SAC that I dont understand is the requirement for the NCLE.
As far as I can tell, mastering contacts has really less to do with eyeglasses than some would think. I believe this requirement sprang from cls being the domain of the levels above our place in the optical food chain, and thereby acquiring some enhanced associated status.
Although I have a NYS CL license, I dont have an NCLE, so unless I find time to do so.....

B

One of the goals of the SAO is to increase reciprocity and mobility. Most states that have licensure for opticians require you to be ABO and NCLE certified at the time of application. We intend to work toward those that are designated Ophthalmic Opticians to be recognized as the most qualified opticians in the marketplace and therefore to be the most readily accepted for reciprocity. Shouldn't our designees be qualified to be licensed in those states?

Those states also don't require you to maintain those certifications. We also don't intend to police whether someone who has earned the OO designation maintains those certifications forever.

I had also let my NCLE certification lapse. Most licensed states have a level of CL CEs required to maintain licensure. That's the case in Florida. All I had to do to renew was submit documentation that I had continually maintained my license during the lapsed period. Plus send them a check. No retesting necessary.

[gmc]

Excuse me, there was one group of optiboarders that did this, of course those people are now being called heretics and upstarts.

Don't forget elitists and exclusivists!

Exclusivist is the one I find most absurd. One of our two primary purposes is to help others reach their educational goals via mentoring!

[Laurie]

Hello Optoboarders,

I just wanted to make note of the fact, that just because so many lurkers avoid posting is not so much apathy, but avoidance of insults. Less bickering and insults will yield more participation.

It is excellent that this thread is continuing with limited insults, it is the only way to continue the dialogue. I will only ditto what Gary, Kevin, Wes, Warren, Optical 24/7 and more have stated. The purpose of the SAO is to acknowledge opticians who have reached levels of certification/education, and also, to mentor those who wish to do so. We also have Candidate Membership, for those who want to be mentored, and those who do not wish to be a full member, but support the cause.

The reason why the NCLE is in place, is because it is part of the scope of opticianry. I do not fit contact lenses, and would not put the public in potential harm by doing so. Passing the NCLE exam, even if you do not fit contact lenses, will enhance your scope of knowledge in opticianry in general. Most opticians like Barry and others prevelant in our field would have very little trouble passing the NCLE with the support of the educational materials and reviews out there. Most licensed states require both the ABO and NCLE to take their boards, and as Wes and Gary have pointed out, we would like to see opportunities for mobility for opticians in the US. If this is to occur, the requirements would likely need to yield to the highest state requirement, which is ABO, NCLE, and a 2 year degree in opticianry/or 3 years apprenticeship. We have added a general 2 year degree in another field coupled with at least one advanced certification to even out the playing field. We realize that there are many opticians with degrees other than optical sciences, having the advanced certification demonstrates that they have received a higher level of optical understanding.

Members of the SAO (including myself) have donated countless hours of work, as well as pitching in financially to get this organization off the ground. The nature of our membership requirements support the missions of each and every optical organization out there, and we will mentor people and direct them to the different organizations to gain access to materials to study for the exams, as well as direct them toward educational opportunities.

One thing for sure, is that we are all passionate about the future of opticianry. Lets all work together here...we can do this!

: )

Laurie

[jediron1]

Waves hand- these aren't the advanced exams I was looking for.
Subtle star wars reference...

Wes when I took the NY exam it was an advanced exam. Also I mentioned I have my C.O.A. Which again is an advanced test. I also have my ABO. It's not how many medals you have on your chest but how do you put that knowledge to use and how competent you are in your chosen field. One other thing I forgot to mention and I think someone brought it up briefly and that is we must find a way to get public perception from seeing us as just order clerks and see us as part of the three O's.

[Wes]

Wes when I took the NY exam it was an advanced exam. Also I mentioned I have my C.O.A. Which again is an advanced test. I also have my ABO. It's not how many medals you have on your chest but how do you put that knowledge to use and how competent you are in your chosen field. One other thing I forgot to mention and I think someone brought it up briefly and that is we must find a way to get public perception from seeing us as just order clerks and see us as part of the three O's.

Oh I agree with you that those are/were difficult exams. I just thought you meant something else and wanted to get your opinion on them in a sidebar discussion.


As far as being an order taker, no intelligent patient has ever mistaken me for anything but an excellent optician after a few minutes' worth of discussion. I'm sure the same could be said for most all of us in on this discussion.

[Wes]

Is this thread dead?

Why or why not?

Discuss.

[Diopterman]

Is this thread dead?

Why or why not?

Discuss.

LOL!!!

Dead!

Like Opticianry, it died due to APATHY!!

[optilady1]

LOL!!!

Dead!

Like Opticianry, it died due to APATHY!!

What more is there to say? I think there's equal amounts apathy and arrogance. Until those who apprenticed get over those who are educated, and vice versa, nothing's ever going to get done. Pride will be the killer of opticianry, nothing else.

[jediron1]

LOL!!!

Dead!

Like Opticianry, it died due to APATHY!!

Apparently diopterman must work in a morgue, it's not dead. But there is one good thing working in a morgue is yo never get any bickering over price or fit! Lol. We just have to follow what was laid out. WcD believes education and I agree with that. Others believe for
get education and go with apprentices. Really! What I believe should be implemented is a
two year program with a program at the end with a 9 month to a year of apprenticeship.
After the end of your 2 year program you take your test and not the Mickey Mouse ABO.
It must be redone to encompass at least 4 parts going from anatomy to a practical. Then
after passing your test you go to work for an organization under an apprenticeship progra
m that after 9 months you are entitled to work alone as a full fledged licensed optician. Just my rant!