Me? Past President and BOD member of Opticians Association of VA, past commissioner on COA, past BOD member OAA, State Society Chair (OAA), Adjunct faculty Northern Virginia Community College, State Leader of the Year (OAA). Why do you ask?
Most, but not all, of the people involved in this discussion are shouting from the sidelines, waiting for someone else to do the real work.
Your comment questions my performance. I am certainly no arm chair quarterback. If you are referring to other who do little but ***** and moan, then I misrread your comment.
Indeed, my comment was sarcastic. I know you and your work; you know me and my work as well.
No time ................................
THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- AUGUST 2011
Nonfarm payroll employment was unchanged (0) in August,and the unemployment rate held at 9.1 percent, the U.S. Bureau of LaborStatistics reported today.
Employment in most major industries changed little overthe month. Health care continued to add jobs, and a decline in informationemployment reflected a strike. Government employment continued to trend down,despite the return of workers from a partial government shutdown in Minnesota.
more at:...........http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Originally Posted by Barry Santini
The number of unemployed persons, at 14.0 million, wasessentially unchanged in August, and the unemployment rate held at 9.1 percent.The rate has shown little change since April. (See table A-1.)
Are the ones who need visual aids among them going towait until opticians have a proper education when they need glasses and pay theprice the educated one is charging..................or are they going to the onliners for pair of bargain glasses ??????
Education is a good thing to get and to have. It takeswill power, and a lot of time.
The economy does not allow the time needed to discuss thefor and against education and it can never come to be what the theme of thisthread suggests. "IS OPTICIANRYDEAD"
It is not dead, but it could get a mortal shot if not ashort term solution can be found so that opticians and the on liners can liveside by side. The economy and monetary situation is for sure not on the side ofthe opticians, neither are governments as they seem to prove world wide byletting on liners flourish as they want.
Thanks Chris. You are correct, it is not. I am not suggesting anyone stop anything. I am suggesting future, meaning not current folks now working, Opticians be better prepared, so as to be able to expand our scope and take on more responsibilites. I thought I had made that clear, but from your comments it must not have been.
And that's what most don't want to do is work for it. I was once told my an Empire manager who said " if they want me to get the ABO then I will study the little book and pass but for now they haven't required me to that". That's why I contend the boxes and empire don't want licensing.
Optometrists don't have medical degrees because they don't need them and it
doesn't pay to get them. They never will unless they are forced to no matter how many pep rallies encourage them to.
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There is a difference between optician training (what to do)and optician education.(Why you do it)
2 years gives you an education. 7 months or less gives you training.
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More Landlord wheel-spining about length of course determining value of program.
Webster’s Dictionary defines:
‘education’… “the result produced by instruction, training or study”
and
‘training’… “to make proficient by instruction and practice”
It’s all about competencies.
Last edited by hcjilson; 09-19-2011 at 06:46 PM. Reason: removed an inappropriate comment.
The day a NATIONAL educational standard is agreed upon, fully, openly and honestly vetted against multiple educational options, peer reviewed by working opticians nationwide, is subsequently made available to every state at a reasonable cost, is fully backed and consistently supported by established organizations, and is presented to the forces that will lobby against the change (the other O's, retail etc.) and is returned with a positive response...then you may get a more assertive, affirmative cheer from "the side lines". Until that point, all the new start-up groups can bang their drums as loud as they like...it still amounts to :poop:.
Parroting the "You gotta have a two-year degree (or four, or whatever the flavor of the day is now) or else!" mantra does nothing to either further the cause, nor to gain support inside or out of the field at large. Even if all the above is met and completed - it's a long shot at best. The continued shouting for something that doesn't exist is ridiculous to the nth degree.
It is interesting to note, that with all the 'advanced' certification, and 'years of education' in this thread, it remains rife with spelling and grammatical errors. But hey, you got the paper on the wall - so you must be doing something right! My schooling wasn't an English major...but come now, spell-check isn't that hard to figure out!
And I was told that the best way to lose my job as a GSM with the Empire was to become involved in my state association. I called his bluff and have remained active on the state and national level since 1991.
They cannot stop anyone from pursuing an education or certification or activitism on behalf of your chosen profession. They can make it difficult, sometimes difficult enough to quit, but they cannot stop you. "They" don't own you; they employ you.
I agree with you on nearly all of this, but It won't materialize from nowhere. A lot of people have to come together to make this happen. Do you have a plan?
Wesley S. Scott, MBA, MIS, ABOM, NCLE-AC, LDO - SC & GA
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” -Albert Einstein
It's not wheel spinning, it's even called training by the trainers. I won't mention any names but there is a short program that even advertises using the phrase "optician training" for the purpose of starting your own business.
Anyone can be trained to take measurements and sell glasses. It takes an education to be a professional, competent optician. Some in this forum argue that it should be 4 years of education.
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The day a NATIONAL educational standard is agreed upon, fully, openly and honestly vetted against multiple educational options, peer reviewed by working opticians nationwide, is subsequently made available to every state at a reasonable cost, is fully backed and consistently supported by established organizations, and is presented to the forces that will lobby against the change (the other O's, retail etc.) and is returned with a positive response...then you may get a more assertive, affirmative cheer from "the side lines". Until that point, all the new start-up groups can bang their drums as loud as they like...it still amounts to :poop:.
Parroting the "You gotta have a two-year degree (or four, or whatever the flavor of the day is now) or else!" mantra does nothing to either further the cause, nor to gain support inside or out of the field at large. Even if all the above is met and completed - it's a long shot at best. The continued shouting for something that doesn't exist is ridiculous to the nth degree.
It is interesting to note, that with all the 'advanced' certification, and 'years of education' in this thread, it remains rife with spelling and grammatical errors. But hey, you got the paper on the wall - so you must be doing something right! My schooling wasn't an English major...but come now, spell-check isn't that hard to figure out!
Brion,
I really do need to take more time and review these silly little errors. Thanks. Despite that obvious weakness, I do want so much for Opticianry to improve. Do you not agree? If education is not the correct path, what do you suggest? You talk a lot about the positive plans of others but add little to the conversation, except to tell us why what others propose will not work. We want a national standard and work towards that goal. You ask for education at a reasonable cost. What does that mean? Help us understand a way to help future Opticians.
"Help us understand a way to help future Opticians."
1. Get laws that strictly define the act of dispensing.
2. Get laws that restrict the practice of dispensing to qualified persons with proper education.
3. Make sure someone enforces the law.
This will decrease the supply of and increase demand for opticians, thereby raising incomes. Problem solved.
Ontario got as far as step 2.
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Hi Landlord,
Thanks for your participation. All those things are what we want to see as well. Keep in mind, that while licensing has some affect on income (although not as much as you may suspect) income protection is not one of the things they are designed to protect. The law is there to protect the public from folks who may cause them harm. In the US, there is division among even Opticians regarding the need for licensing laws. 27 states have no requirements at all, and Opticianry organizations have attempted to institute laws in a number of states only to be thwarted by the chains, who claim it is too restrictive, and the ODs who see any attempt by Opticians as a move to invade their territory. With many Opticians seeing no need, and the ODs and chains against us, we have little chance initially. What we must do first is educate, providing Opticians with great knowledge, skills and abilities, enabling them to do more, and then working as a cohesive unit, legislate an increase in scope. It will be a long journey, and should have been done many years ago.
But here, several continue this argument only to be called elitist, while we see ourselves as folks who deeply care about this profession, and feel it needs to move forward. After 30 years of the fight, I am simply tired. I wish you all the very best in the future, and can only hope that one day education will become a priority. Until we require some formal education, we will continue to decline. Best wishes to you all.
"What we must do first is educate... and then working as a cohesive unit, legislate an increase in scope." -wmcdonald
Increase in scope? Are you talking about refracting? That is a whole 'nother issue. Maybe in unlicensed states it may appear to opticians that more education is the key to happiness but here in Ontario we see it is not. We already have mandatory education and things are still screwed up.
"W. Mcdonald, PhD, optician. Glasses by appointment only."
You will never see shingles like this because it is unnecessary. Opticians will never stay in school long enough to obtain their PhD because if they liked school that much they would become optometrists or ophthalmologists or scientists.
Do opticians want more money? Only one possible way. Reduce supply of opticians by regulating.
If you just want more education then go out and get it!!
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The ONLY reason some fail to see the value of education and increasing our scope of practice is:
(TA-DAH!)
That they don't see the full value in what we do...at all!
Period.
B
Barry, as an education advocate, I assume you must have at least a 2-year opticianry diploma and/or a university degree.
What level of education do you think is appropriate for opticians?
Do you think opticians should refract?
After they are educated, what argument will you use to convince governments to regulate?
How will you enforce the regulations on internet opticians?
...or would you propose a two-tier system of licensed / unlicensed opticians?
How much more income do you expect educated opticians to earn?
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Landlord,
Refraction is a long way down the road. I suggest a two-year degree is what we need, and expanding from that down the road. As you know, I am well aware of the situation in Canada. But Optometry is now moving into a medical model. More delegation and more opportunities for Opticians may exist. Contact lenses, low vision, etc. are all valid opportunities.
I do not expect these folks to get graduate degrees, but if they wanted to I would like to see them at least minimally prepared to apply for Optometry school.
Now you're talking. A new branch of opticianry like contact lens or low vision specialist would certainly justify more education. The opticians who make their living retailing products are the ones who will continue to see their market share erode and their collective knowledge dumbed down.
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That is what we have been saying all along. Expanding our scope is my way os saying doing more than selling eyewear, although if that is what you enjoy, then go for it. I want Opticians to do more. I am glad I could finally explain it more clearly. One thing.......that is not a brand new branch in the US. The patent for the corneal contact lens was granted to an Optician (K. Touhy). It would be a return to that sphere of Opticianry. Low visision would be more of a new thing.
Those businesses that actually survive the online onslaught will gladly pay for qualified help. I know I do!
Barry
Last edited by Barry Santini; 09-20-2011 at 01:32 PM.
Apparently you jumped in just too add your 2 cents without reading the whole thread. My point in the quote you posted was the Big Boxes and the Empire would rather hire non licensed people and they go about this by hiring an optometrist whereby he or she can baby sit for all the non licensed people they have on board. That is why I included that quote by The Empires manager who told me that as well as the assistant manager. They were not telling him or her they could pursue education or certification they just never encouraged it.
The day a NATIONAL educational standard is agreed upon, fully, openly and honestly vetted against multiple educational options, peer reviewed by working opticians nationwide, is subsequently made available to every state at a reasonable cost, is fully backed and consistently supported by established organizations, and is presented to the forces that will lobby against the change (the other O's, retail etc.) and is returned with a positive response...then you may get a more assertive, affirmative cheer from "the side lines". Until that point, all the new start-up groups can bang their drums as loud as they like...it still amounts to
:poop:.
Parroting the "You gotta have a two-year degree (or four, or whatever the flavor of the day is now) or else!" mantra does nothing to either further the cause, nor to gain support inside or out of the field at large. Even if all the above is met and completed - it's a long shot at best. The continued shouting for something that doesn't exist is ridiculous to the nth degree. It is interesting to note, that with all the 'advanced' certification, and 'years of education' in this thread, it remains rife with spelling and grammatical errors. But hey, you got the paper on the wall - so you must be doing something right! My schooling wasn't an English major...but come now, spell-check isn't that hard to figure out!
Really! Some people like to use short cuts or just post and missed the grammar. But to sit and complain about the grammar instead of seeing the actual picture were writing about is ridiculous.
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